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An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...

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Old 01-20-2017, 09:14 AM   #21
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Your veil is about as subtle as the star QB that plays smear the queer only to retreat to the safety of home for a tearful jerk to a men's fitness magazine followed by wallowing in self pity and confusion.

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Old 01-20-2017, 09:46 AM   #22
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Something an older car will never be is new. People stick with the older cars for a variety of reasons (easier to work on, cheaper parts, they like all the little issues, etc.), just as people migrate to newer vehicles for a reason (reliability, modern tech, gas mileage, status, etc.). At my ripe old age of 39, I've learned it is pointless to compare things from different generations. Everything we buy is a snapshot in time of what is good now, and now changes instantly.

I love my '99 Z28, but accept that it isn't the pavement shredder that it once was. Modern V6s and even some turbo-4s have caught up to the LS1 in performance, and offer a nicer interior and better gas mileage. It all boils down to a person's willingness to accept these things and be okay with it. Some can, some want to move on to something else. Fortunately in my household, we keep the wife in something modern, so I get the best of both worlds. We drive a '15 Equinox LTZ (V6, AWD) for literally everything, and I rotate my '99 Z28 and my '99 Tahoe for daily driving and my random trips to wherever.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:48 AM   #23
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I entered this thread thinking your T/A got totaled by an Accord. Glad that's not the case.



You're not wrong to feel the way you do. Perhaps your stable is too saturated? Diversity is a good thing. Just something to think about.


My eye-opening moment was at a recent track rental.
Our local FBody club does an annual track rental down at Atco; we extend the invite to members' friends as well (the only stipulation is everyone must be on a DR or slick, to preserve track conditions). It was awesome watching FBodies drive down the pits, yank the front tires & throw up 10-second times all day. As an owner of an FBody, I knew what went into those cars to get that ET; dialed-in suspension, weight reduction, skinnies, internal motor work, some creature comforts traded off.
But you can imagine the look on my face when all these non-FBodies were hanging the same ETs, with substantially less drama. Guys in their new Vettes slapped on a tire & some basic mods, a new GT500 was casually doing 150+ without any dramatics, there was a Jaguar F-Type on spray that was doing 10.4Xs all day, a stock Hellcat Charger that was doing doing mid-10s without fail, a McClaren that just slapped on some tire warmers & also put up 10.4Xs almost 2-dozen times before packing it up & driving home.

Obviously, those cost substantially more than the 10-second FBodies did, but my point speaks to how Motorsports & automobiles are changing. It is *so easy* to go fast with these newer platforms, and manufacturers are just engineering fantastic machines up-and-down their fleets. Most of the folks with cars that were 10+ years & older trailered their cars home, whereas many of the newer cars just hopped in and hit the freeway, surround sound, cozy seats & 500+ horses on tap.


The bar is constantly being raised. An FBody owner now needs to do some self-reflection, acknowledge what he's after, and weigh whether or not he's going to chase those goals.
For me, I doubt I'm ever selling my 'Bird. It still makes it move for me, and it's an on-going project, filled with sentiment & pride. But that doesn't mean I'm never adding a newer performance car to my stable either. Don't close your mind to ever purchasing another vehicle, Myk. As an enthusiast, economic competition & market depreciation work in your favor. It's okay to want to diversify your driveway.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:16 PM   #24
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All of those cars you named are high-performance cars, Jersey Mike. A Honda ******* Accord is not going to be making the same times as an F-body. And the dot in my rear-view mirror that was my friends leased Accord would agree with that sentiment.

Of course I'm not expecting to beat a C7 Corvette or 2016 GT500.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:03 PM   #25
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All of those cars you named are high-performance cars, Jersey Mike. A Honda ******* Accord is not going to be making the same times as an F-body. And the dot in my rear-view mirror that was my friends leased Accord would agree with that sentiment.

Of course I'm not expecting to beat a C7 Corvette or 2016 GT500.
You're absolutely right, and the majority of FBody owners likely can't afford those cars, but that wasn't my point. I was more so trying to emphasis how the game has changed & that these are the cars you'll run into on the street now. What's going to happen when you come across one on the highway, at a meet, or at a car show? And at the end of it, regardless of how it plays out, are you still happy & at peace with the outcome?


I don't think the OP was trying to say that a 2017 Accord makes the FBody obsolete. To me, it felt like his gripe stemmed from the fact that he "swore that the cars in [his] life would never go beyond [his] F bodies, [his] 2V's and [his] '69 Charger R/T," but is now realizing that there are some well-built & very appealing cars out there nowadays, across a wide scale of price segments. I was trying to tell him, "You're not crazy; cars are getting better in almost every way, and it's okay to swap out 1 or 2 of your cars for something new."

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:16 PM   #26
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OP I agree. I have done a bunch of work to my car and my wife ownes a 16' Nissan Maxima SR and that thing scoots with 300hp. Plus it is a very comfortable ride with all the bells and whistles (heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, radar cruise.....). And just the plush of great leather and super quiet cabin makes my car feel twice as old. The key thing is I don't drive the camaro everyday, so when I do its exciting. It's loud with the true dual exhaust and is a little sketchy on cold roads but that's the thing that I love. I built it, not bought that kind of feeling. I have a lot of time and energy in my car. We have my wifes car on a lease...I will never get rid of the camaro!
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #27
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What's going to happen when I come across a mclaren on the street? First I'll figuratively blow a load in my pants, then I'll probably text a friend and say "just saw a mclaren in/on X highway". Then I'll probably get a little jealous and wonder what the guys wife looks like, and his house, and think "now thats how you live life", then get a little depressed and hate my life, my whole thought process will shift for a good 15 minutes and then maybe I'll resume my day.

All that.... but I highly doubt "race it!" Will come to mind.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:27 PM   #28
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Until you've done it yourself you don't realize how much better these honda and Toyotas are then gm crap.
Surely you aren't comparing general automotive standards from the '90s to a 2017 model (that would be pointless), so I can only assume that you think a late '90s Honda was a much better car than an LS1 F-body? I would call this comparison equally pointless, since Honda didn't offer any vehicle in the US capable of LS1 level performance in that era, especially not at a comparable price. I bought a brand new '99 Z28 in July of 1999 with my eyes wide open, I wasn't expecting a luxury car or econobox MPG. Base price was ~$21K and the car ran mid/low-13s with a full warranty and reliability that was typical for the era and segment - world class horsepower in an affordable platform. What did Honda sell that was so much better at a similar price with similar performance? Unless they had something that matched the V8 F-body in power/performance and price while exceeding it in quality, then the F-body certainly wasn't "crap" in comparison nor was any Honda a better value, just vehicles with different priorities for different purposes.

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Something an older car will never be is new. People stick with the older cars for a variety of reasons (easier to work on, cheaper parts, they like all the little issues, etc.), just as people migrate to newer vehicles for a reason (reliability, modern tech, gas mileage, status, etc.). At my ripe old age of 39, I've learned it is pointless to compare things from different generations. Everything we buy is a snapshot in time of what is good now, and now changes instantly.
Exactly.

The biggest advantage to any new car, to me, is fresh parts; no age related hassles (at least for a time), and that's an important consideration for a daily driver. But everything new eventually becomes old - that doesn't inherently make it bad or junk, it simply depends on personal goals for the vehicle and whether or not you're giving up more positives by moving to something newer rather than just keeping what you have. This is highly subjective as it relates to an enthusiast, especially with a "weekend toy" sort of car.

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It is *so easy* to go fast with these newer platforms, and manufacturers are just engineering fantastic machines up-and-down their fleets. Most of the folks with cars that were 10+ years & older trailered their cars home, whereas many of the newer cars just hopped in and hit the freeway, surround sound, cozy seats & 500+ horses on tap.
I don't disagree with the incredible stock capabilities of many newer performance vehicles, plus their great mod potential. But some of the complexities and gadgets of these newer vehicles may make them a nightmare to deal with when they are several decades old (not that this will matter to most folks but, as the owner of a 46 year old car and a person who tends to keep toys for a long time, it's very real to me.)
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:03 PM   #29
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I was comparing a 2002 rsx to a 2000 trans am in my head. Guess I needed to clarify that. I've been saying for a long time the best mod for a 4th gen is a import daily driver.

I still wouldn't give new gm or ford the time of day vs honda or toyota.

And no, I'm not talking performance. I'm talking ride quality and fit/finish and overall reliability. You want cheap performance you buy a v8 fbody, that's a fact lol. You want something with power windows that go up and down, you buy a honda.
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:13 PM   #30
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The scootiness of the 4cyl cars mentioned is due to gearing. Like in the 80s with a bit of torque in those V8s providing the illusion of speed. I DD a 4cyl Rav4 and it does the same. You think it is a killa 0-40mph. Just a illusion. As mentioned that V6 Accord is like a stock EFI 5.0 and we thought they were quick when stock.

Old cars get old. We are not Jay Leno to lavish big dollars on maintaining that new car ride in a 20-30 year old car. Suspension wears out just sitting. Cars creak and groan like an old wood structure which has seen better days.

Last edited by Felix C; 01-20-2017 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:36 PM   #31
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I was comparing a 2002 rsx to a 2000 trans am in my head. Guess I needed to clarify that. I've been saying for a long time the best mod for a 4th gen is a import daily driver.
That's exactly the sort of pointless comparison I was referring to above. What you're paying for (and getting) with the Trans Am is nearly 200 more horspower (assuming non-Type S) in a comparably affordable platform. One could argue that the RSX is crap because it was $20k+ when new but made SOOOO much less power than a V8 F-body. But, a reasonable person would realize that you're paying for (and getting) different advantages for each, and that doesn't make either car "crap" for the money.

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I still wouldn't give new gm or ford the time of day vs honda or toyota.
Then you are behind the times on this front. I'm not usually one to be up to date myself, but you'd be surprised if you checked out some of the latest GM and Ford offerings then. My inlaws buy Hondas and Toyotas, nothing about their recent generations has been any more impressive than comparable GM models I've bought or driven.

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And no, I'm not talking performance. I'm talking ride quality and fit/finish and overall reliability.
Well, maybe we should be talking performance if a V8 F-body is one of the cars being compared, since those are most decidedly performance vehicles. How about instead of fit and finish we discuss power and ETs? We'll use the Type S model since that was the "performance" version - it was just a couple thousand less than a base Trans Am of that era. But look at how horrible its power output was in comparison! Even at ~2800lbs, it was still 150hp behind the LS1. Why couldn't Acura make something with premium quality fit/finish AND with LS1-level power/performance for the same price? Probably because nobody else could either. But that hardly makes either car junk, they just prioritize different aspects for the price.
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Old 01-20-2017, 04:03 PM   #32
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You're obviously confused....no way in hell I ever said my rsx was fast. Hell it was a base auto and never saw over 3000rpm lol. It was used like the APPLIANCE it was bought to be. Just like a dishwasher, fill with detergent hit start and be extremely unamused.

I'm saying, or was trying to say, what you said, it's two ends of the spectrum. Unless your rich and can afford fast luxury, you get the same **** choices we all get and have to make sacrifices...

The nsx was kind of around (in another country) and wasnt cheap at all, but yea, let's not get into that lol.

Sorry for another edit....

This new accord v6 should be compared to a new camaro ss. While it's performance looks decent to a 4th gen, how's it stack up to its current v8 "fbody" competition? ...Not good.

Last edited by trilkb; 01-20-2017 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 04:35 PM   #33
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the appeal of new vs. old and whats better has been done to death apparently. but i do enjoy the discussion. when it comes to that i think it boils down to taste and mechanical skill.

as for being faster than the other guy in new vs. old....i dont really give a **** about the other guy. how fast can i make mine go? thats all. i mean, youre never gonna out compete new vettes or GTRs or apparently Demons now. if you had enough money to do that, why wouldnt you just buy one of those? but the same on the track i see the same goes for DD'ing. im not in that class.

of course theyre gonna smoke me, but im not in their class cause they have a if not then damn near 100k into their car, and heres me wanting to build a 383 into my 97 i paid 2k for. but i dont have a note. and i have a spacious garage with a lot of tools. i want to make a very fast on the highway car out of a $2000 f-body. that GT500 is gonna destroy me. but just not as bad as he thinks he can. and im good with that.
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Old 01-20-2017, 07:42 PM   #34
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You're absolutely right, and the majority of FBody owners likely can't afford those cars, but that wasn't my point. I was more so trying to emphasis how the game has changed & that these are the cars you'll run into on the street now. What's going to happen when you come across one on the highway, at a meet, or at a car show? And at the end of it, regardless of how it plays out, are you still happy & at peace with the outcome?


I don't think the OP was trying to say that a 2017 Accord makes the FBody obsolete. To me, it felt like his gripe stemmed from the fact that he "swore that the cars in [his] life would never go beyond [his] F bodies, [his] 2V's and [his] '69 Charger R/T," but is now realizing that there are some well-built & very appealing cars out there nowadays, across a wide scale of price segments. I was trying to tell him, "You're not crazy; cars are getting better in almost every way, and it's okay to swap out 1 or 2 of your cars for something new."

Hope that makes sense.
I hear what you're saying. I don't mind losing to a superior machine, I don't even mind losing to a machine I thought I'd beat (in the past I've pulled up to guys and talked to them about their cars and complimented them and stuff, no point being a bad sport.) Of course I like winning and going fast, and seeing the C6 Z06 pull away from me after only 4-5 seconds of racing makes me want to upgrade my car more, but I didn't go into it expecting even the 4-5 seconds of close race. When it's a really high-performance modern car, I look at it like a ruler to see just how far my late 90's sports car can really hang with each upgrade/tune/weightloss whatever. It's impressive that my $12,000 car can go toe to toe with some $50,000 cars, you know what I mean? Not all of them, obviously.
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:25 PM   #35
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You're obviously confused....
Not at all, you're just not agruging the same claim any longer. It started with this:

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Until you've done it yourself you don't realize how much better these honda and Toyotas are then gm crap.
And I disagree, since you're ignoring the huge performance advantage of a V8 F-body while comparing it to a "sporty" coupe of similar original MSRP. Either could be considered "crap" depending on one's goals for their money. Both cars could've been had for $20-25k originally, and no OEM offered a car in that era with LS1 level performance and premium quality fit/finish for that sort of MSRP. LS1 F-bodies were class leaders (by far) in terms of performance/power per dollar - so for their intended purpose/category they were great cars.

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Hell it was a base auto and never saw over 3000rpm lol. It was used like the APPLIANCE it was bought to be. Just like a dishwasher, fill with detergent hit start and be extremely unamused.
Then it was money well spent for the intended purpose. But it would have been a crap car if you specifically wanted something fast of that age for similar cash.

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I'm saying, or was trying to say, what you said, it's two ends of the spectrum. Unless your rich and can afford fast luxury, you get the same **** choices we all get and have to make sacrifices...
That's exactly the point I've been trying to make all along, though your original quote was very much to the contrary....hence the conversation.

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This new accord v6 should be compared to a new camaro ss.
Why? They are not in the same segment at all. Why not compare it to a V6 Malibu instead? How many people are cross-shopping V6 Accords and Camaro SSs?
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:29 PM   #36
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How many people are cross-shopping V6 Accords and Camaro SSs?
I just almost spit out my beer. LMFAO. Not ******* on you trilkb, you're one of my favorite posters. But damn that was a good point.
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:12 PM   #37
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No no no no.....

I'm on a phone so it would take me forever to get the quote I want in your massive post lol....

What I meant when I said that quote was this...until you've owned a Honda you have no idea the difference in reliability and fit/finish vs a gm fbody (and in my mind, truthfully most gm cars lol). Thats how i was saying they are better, was kind of a partial thought. You sacrifice ALOT of comfort and quality and reliability with a fbody. The OP is clearly having his first experience with this and likely never cared or noticed befor. That's why I say until people own one, they really don't know what they are missing in terms of "dishwasher-like reliabity". It's the most unconnected point a to point b experience you can have, but it's reliable and most interior features work day in and day out.

In no way did I mean for that to mean "until you own a Honda you have no idea how fast and powerful they are". Or for it to mean whatever you're taking it as necause I've never once changed my arguement, just some sort of communication problem. People on here should know I'm a stubborn **** and often go the other way of the crowd, I may be reasoned with to see certain views, but I never just up and change my arguement without explanation of my logic lol. I'm firm footed and I'm often the one going against the grain. **** look at the Ford gt thread.

The argument of the new camaro vs new accord is because some people have been comparing this v6 accord to 4th gen fbodies in this thread. I believe I read something about this accord could probably give a 97 lt1 a solid run. My logic is if you aren't happy with people comparing brand new civics and gms and whatever the **** else, to 98-02 cars, why are we letting it be said that a new v6 accord can beat a lt1 car? Why aren't we keeping that on the same level of year vs year? So whatever, it took 20 years for Honda to crank out a v6 car/sedan (not s2000 or whatever else you can think of) that can MAYBE take down the red headed lt1, they still have nothing on the newest model camaro v8.

I dunno, trust me, communication error...it happens to me a lot in life, unbelievably often lol. I dunno what you thought I meant but I got confused because in my head we are saying the same thing lol. I'm sure you'll find stuff in this post that doesn't sit right with you as well lol. I'm not saying 93-02 fbodies are the greatest thing on earth, or the worst. Same with any honda.

Last edited by trilkb; 01-20-2017 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:22 PM   #38
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why are we letting it be said that a new v6 accord can beat a lt1 car?
No. An LT1 f-body will eat that thing alive.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:24 AM   #39
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So yeah the new accords are pretty nice
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:45 AM   #40
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1.)Cars get objectively better with newer technology

2.)Cars being better than others all depends on what you want out of them

3.)Trilkb likes to argue

Did I get everything?
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