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An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...

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Old 01-23-2017, 11:26 AM   #61
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He might make Accords into specks in his rearview mirror, but he "eats alive" SRT-8s in his almost stock TA. He said so in the 5.7 Challenger thread. Not sure which one is the greater victory..."eating alive" or "turning into specks". Both sound pretty hardcore.
The SRT-8 I didn't pull away immediately like with the Accord, but the Dodge guy kept trying to race me every light and I kept winning by several bus lengths. I didn't know the weight difference between the two cars was that great but he couldn't catch me once. (I mean, until the next light.) I didn't expect to beat the Challenger, but unless he was just awful at shifting, we kept going at it until he gave up and waved me off.

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Old 01-23-2017, 03:41 PM   #62
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This is a pretty interesting thread considering i have faced a similar dilemma recently...

I drove my z28 everywhere for the last 7 years and it wasn't until i moved to california that i kind of got sick of it, more of a love hate relationship. When my buddy bought a s2000 i got motivated to have some fun in the car, and completely forgot how crazy of a car it is! (I'm not huge on handling so i still enjoyed my car better).

I ended up getting a '05 automatic, low miles camry to dd. And it is amazing as far as comfort goes. If money wasnt an issue, i believe the sweet spot is a newer cts. I get to drive one once or twice a week and it is hard on the gas like a camaro, handling like an import, 4 doors, sleek and professional business looking, and new of course.

BUT, i already miss the camaro. I cleaned her up really good to store or sell, and its just an amazing car. The power is so raw and in your face. Like rpmws6 was saying the newer cars remove you from the road in a sense with all their large frames, extra insulation, new equipemnt/features. I havent ridden in alot but the ones i have: cts, charger, m3, lexus, audi, toyota/hondas, boosted trucks (lol)...none of them have come close to touching the excitement i have of driving my bolt on only car. Even though some are faster and most are more comfortable or smoother (which is incredibly nice for dd).


I'm definitely torn with parting with it though. I was trying to think ahead at cars i could get in the future to replace it with, and not a whole lot appealed to me. I do think there is something out there, but it may take a while to find. And i agree with you op, the closer i examine the issue i think its more an issue of getting older and a sweet spot that existed in a particular part in time may not exist in its entirety anymore or for much longer at least.
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:06 AM   #63
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They don't do much for me but get me from point a to point b. They are appliances like a dishwasher. But sometimes that's a good thing.

You drive your trans am, it's an experience, you see maybe 1 or 2 others on the road or none. Its an enthusiasts car.

The best mod for any fbody or vette or sports car is a cheap daily driver. It helps you keep your sanity. But in my opinion it's not worth spending 30-40k on, maybe 5-10.
This sums it up. I DDed my camaro for a few months in the summer, no AC, no insulation, I'd get to work sweaty, half deaf and reaking of oil sitting in a conference room with people wearing suits talking too loud because my hearing wasn't back yet. Then I'd get another DD with AC and be able to listen to the radio or call into a conference call from the road and I'd think I could never go back...for about 3 days. Then the appliance novelty wears off, I'd sell the DD, back in the camaro, rinse and repeat. I swear the best mod for keeping your toy is a DD. Only drive it to work on occasion, otherwise you don't appreciate it. Normal cars are appliances, I froze my *** off in the camaro this winter, so I got a c240, with heated seats, climate control, dead quiet, and I hate it already. Can't wait until spring. Sad fact also is that 170hp 2002 c240 gets the same god damn gas mileage as my camaro does, 26 highway, 22 on my commute, who says f body's are not environmentally friendly?

On the performance side, my dad bought a 2016 Sierra 6.2 loaded, and that 6000 lb truck runs 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and the quarter in 13.9 at the governor at 98mph, as fast as my LT1 was bone stock, with wireless cellphone charging, cooled seats, climate control, everything. But there's no passion, where's the thrill? The adventure? The thumbs up, or people rolling down their windows at stop lights to hear you leave. When you pass someone doing 50 in a 55, is it a quiet rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr as you go by, or is it like a jet fighter shooting rockets of middle fingers and playing the star spangled banner as you blast past them? That is joy. A to b, new cars are great 4 days a week, but keep some passion in your commute, a smile on your face, and that little whiff of oil and rubber as you walk into that conference room with a **** eating grin of confidence as you hear someone in a suit say something stupid and have your first thought before you reply be "I hope I catch him next to a light on the way home".
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:41 PM   #64
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Technology and engineering has come along way and muscle cars were never really "comfortable ". It's something we got accustomed to and enjoyed as a hobby.

A rough analogy is that people who enjoy the outdoors don't have issues with sleeping in a tent vs their regular bedroom.

I got my 2011 Subaru Impreza brand new, it was my first brand new car and compared to my 01 ss, it's a lot more comfortable and smoother driving car.

After working 9 hours and 2 hour commute in traffic, the creature comforts with 37 mpg are exactly what's needed, not a rougher riding loud exhaust car that gets 17mpg because I drive 82 miles a day.

Things like awd, heated seats, remote start , Bluetooth stereo win over loud exhaust in a 16 year old car seem much better on a bad weather day. I can only imagine if I could afford a suv or a luxury car.

With that said I still appreciate the ss more and enjoy driving it more.

I didn't read entire thread but I don't know if guys with newer muscle cars feel the same way and corvettes are a totally different ride anyway. My friend had a g8 that felt great, although it was no BMW M5.

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Old 02-05-2017, 12:21 PM   #65
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After working 9 hours and 2 hour commute in traffic, the creature comforts with 37 mpg are exactly what's needed, not a rougher riding loud exhaust car that gets 17mpg because I drive 82 miles a day.

Things like awd, heated seats, remote start , Bluetooth stereo win over loud exhaust in a 16 year old car seem much better on a bad weather day. I can only imagine if I could afford a suv or a luxury car.
I had a similar commute for about 5 years, and tried it with a few different types of cars. I came to a very different conclusion than yours. I do regret beating up a nice 4th gen on that type of commute in my local winter weather conditions, but other than that it was a far more pleasing experience than the full-sized/"comfort" car or econo-box that I also tried using for this commute. Just personal preference I guess. I'm anti-gadget for the most part, so I'm not really impressed by or interest in many of the modern features that most folks look for in a daily driver.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:27 PM   #66
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Hello? 2003 350Z? 287hp with 274ft lbs of torque from a 3.5 v6? Back in 2003, 14 years ago with a curb weight of about 3200 pounds, these things feel quite nice with the torque shove from a 40 pull. Not to mention 23mpg with 75% city 25% highway miles to and from my daily commute, heated seats, an OK daily driver.

It really comes down to personal preference though, I bought my F-Body as my first car when I was 16 and got the 350Z when I was 19, not ridiculously expensive either as I paid $5500 for it. I'm only 20 now, I guess I got the luxury touch a little sooner than most IRS was a must for me as it is gobs better than a solid axle for a daily driver. But then you have people who enjoy the solid axle shenanigans, roughhouse drive you get with an F-Body. It's got that playful V8 throaty note to it, and with an LS1, mods open it up like no other engine. If you want to go fast in a 350Z, you either have to go forced induction or drop an LS1 in it, they are very limited in the power gains you can get with bolt-ons or even cams or motor/heads upgrades with the VQ engine. Have to give credit to GM for the LS engines, they are magnificent.

However, the build quality of the 4th gen F-Body. It absolutely dominates the squeakfest, rattles galore, and general uneasiness of the chassis. Pulling into a driveway, you could hear the entire car groan like it was going to twist as you pulled up a driveway, rattles going off everywhere. And that was with both stock suspension and with Koni yellows/Stranos + sway bars added. Hop into the 350Z with completely stock suspension at 140k and 13 years old at the time, 1 squeak with a chassis that is a hell of a lot more taut than a 4th gen. Get a Nismo Z and you get the much better HR engine that pulls to 7500rpm with a seam welded chassis, mass dampers, revised suspension with spring rates that are well beyond what a 4th gen got stock from the factory, fixed 4/2 pot Brembo calipers, 18x9f 19x10r wheels. Now that I sound like a stereotypical ricer fanboy, which I am there's no denying it, it really again all ends up with personal preference from person to person I believe. One person will enjoy the American sports car and some will enjoy the import junkie, drifting cult. But there's no denying that cars have really came a lot from GM's 4th gen lineup. There's a hell of a lot more refinement and "driving experience" that you get with newer vehicles, doesn't matter what brand of car it is. That's the whole purpose of getting better with newer technology integrated into cars, whether or not the driving experience is being dumbed-down by these aids, that's where the classic American muscle sports cars make you feel like a naughty kid in a vibrating V8 that likes to tear up the streets.

The V8 symphony is still one of my favorite exhaust notes, long live the V8
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:18 PM   #67
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However, the build quality of the 4th gen F-Body. It absolutely dominates the squeakfest, rattles galore, and general uneasiness of the chassis. Pulling into a driveway, you could hear the entire car groan like it was going to twist as you pulled up a driveway, rattles going off everywhere. And that was with both stock suspension and with Koni yellows/Stranos + sway bars added.
Not sure what was wrong with your car but Ive never experienced anything like that in all the 4th gens Ive been in (probably 10-15 different 4th gens over the years).
My car has zero rattles or squeeks, zero. No groaning, no noises, no nothing, im at a little over 80K miles now. A properly maintained and setup car won't have noises.
Theres no denying the poor build quality, but you are either grossly over exaggerating or had a junker car which wouldn't be the fault of the 4th gen.
And ironically enough the 1 350Z I briefly rode in was newish at the time (a year or two old at the time), was a rattle trap(center console, hatch, and something in the back) and the handling wasn't nearly as good as some of the fanboys pretend it is. Maybe it was a poor example but even so, i wasn't really impressed, much rather have a LS1 4th gen, or better yet a C5. But in your comparison with a V6 4th gen thats falling apart vs the 350Z, Id rather have the 350Z.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:36 PM   #68
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I had a similar commute for about 5 years, and tried it with a few different types of cars. I came to a very different conclusion than yours. I do regret beating up a nice 4th gen on that type of commute in my local winter weather conditions, but other than that it was a far more pleasing experience than the full-sized/"comfort" car or econo-box that I also tried using for this commute. Just personal preference I guess. I'm anti-gadget for the most part, so I'm not really impressed by or interest in many of the modern features that most folks look for in a daily driver.
Yeah definitely perspective, I know I enjoy it more after driving the dd.
Another added benefit of a dd, even if it is a 1999 corolla is that one could take time doing the mods with proper time. Last season I did the entire suspension over a course of a month & swapped the carpet.
I was able to put each part on and log the upgrade in driving experiences.
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:53 PM   #69
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Hello? 2003 350Z? 287hp with 274ft lbs of torque from a 3.5 v6? Back in 2003, 14 years ago with a curb weight of about 3200 pounds
What did the power band look like though? That's still ~60hp/~75tq behind an LS1 at peak, and only about ~200lbs lighter for the car overall. LS1s make torque just about everywhere above idle.

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It really comes down to personal preference though
Yes it does.

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However, the build quality of the 4th gen F-Body. It absolutely dominates the squeakfest, rattles galore, and general uneasiness of the chassis. Pulling into a driveway, you could hear the entire car groan like it was going to twist as you pulled up a driveway, rattles going off everywhere. And that was with both stock suspension and with Koni yellows/Stranos + sway bars added.
As mentioned by JD_AMG above, I had absolute none of this with my '02 Z28 when it was 12 years old/110k miles, prior to selling it. The only rattle it had was from the driver's side t-top in sub-freezing temps, but only until the interior would warm up a bit. Hardly a big deal for a removable roof vehicle of this era and MSRP. Certainly nothing like what you have experienced, perhaps yours lived a harder life?

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it really again all ends up with personal preference from person to person I believe.
Agreed again.



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But there's no denying that cars have really came a lot from GM's 4th gen lineup. There's a hell of a lot more refinement and "driving experience" that you get with newer vehicles, doesn't matter what brand of car it is.
Some of the driving experience has actually been lost in these newer, overly refined vehicles. The isolation of a super smooth, muted tomb with delayed response DBW and such is not always a preferable "driving" experience. All depends on what sort of driving you want or prefer to do.

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That's the whole purpose of getting better with newer technology integrated into cars
Some of it IS objectively better, yes. But there are also several subjective downsides to many new gadgets/tech. Also a matter of personal preference and intended purpose.
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:03 PM   #70
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I should've known better to post that on an LS1 forum , looks like I'm bringing a pebble to a gun fight

I guess my experience has been somewhat "limited" as to the F-Body's I've been in, I've been around 5-6 different ones over the past 3 or so years, all of which squeaked and rattled, but it may be because 3 or 4 of those were when I was test driving them so I could pick which one I wanted to buy. However, it was my first car, so I never test drove a car that was priced over 3k, hence why they were priced in that range. The other 2 were high cam, big thumping 4th gens, so naturally the vibrations and the way the engine was set up rattled every plastic piece in the car because of the massive cams. Even the owners said that they are quite squeaky, but they have a good reason to when they're wielding 900hp. Given a well setup, maintained car, I don't doubt a bit that they can be very civilized and a decent ride, minus the solid axle... The solid axle is one thing I will never be able to go back to lol, I'll say it again: my preference is IRS all the way, others may differ.

The DE (03-05) is definitely not as good as the HR (07-08) you'll never see a DE walk an LS1 or even be able to match it. An HR vs LS1 will be a drivers race if everything is stock IMO. A modded race, LS1 will start to walk the HR on the top end. (I'll get dyno graphs later, PhotoBucket seems to be down at the moment)

Still though, with 2 less cylinders and with 2.2L less of engine all together... It's a pretty good feat in 07 IMO. 350Z's do sound like a vacuum cleaner that's going over shaggy carpet at full throttle though I prefer vacuum cleaners haha

Just so I'm not crazy as people are saying that F-Body's don't rattle or shake... I just need 1 person to agree with me to make sure I'm not going insane haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iNZdyOq7PU
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:29 PM   #71
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I should've known better to post that on an LS1 forum , looks like I'm bringing a pebble to a gun fight

I guess my experience has been somewhat "limited" as to the F-Body's I've been in, I've been around 5-6 different ones over the past 3 or so years, all of which squeaked and rattled, but it may be because 3 or 4 of those were when I was test driving them so I could pick which one I wanted to buy. However, it was my first car, so I never test drove a car that was priced over 3k, hence why they were priced in that range.
Well theres a problem, there is a reason they were that cheap... Poorly maintained, run down cars will have rattles and noises regardless of the brand - im not talking about high mileage vehicles, Im talking about ones that were not taken care of.

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The other 2 were high cam, big thumping 4th gens, so naturally the vibrations and the way the engine was set up rattled every plastic piece in the car because of the massive cams. Even the owners said that they are quite squeaky, but they have a good reason to when they're wielding 900hp.
Ive been in a few big cam cars as well, and yes those cars will rock back and forth and cause rattles (that can easily be fixed).

Quote:
Given a well setup, maintained car, I don't doubt a bit that they can be very civilized and a decent ride, minus the solid axle... The solid axle is one thing I will never be able to go back to lol, I'll say it again: my preference is IRS all the way, others may differ.
I much prefer an IRS setup as well.

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Still though, with 2 less cylinders and with 2.2L less of engine all together... It's a pretty good feat in 07 IMO. 350Z's do sound like a vacuum cleaner that's going over shaggy carpet at full throttle though I prefer vacuum cleaners haha
Until you factor in weight and physical size, and see the V6 is bigger, and around the same weight as the "old tech" Lsx's.

Quote:
Just so I'm not crazy as people are saying that F-Body's don't rattle or shake... I just need 1 person to agree with me to make sure I'm not going insane haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iNZdyOq7PU
No one is denying they certainly can be rattles traps, they are more prone to it due to the hard poor fitting plastics but mostly the uneducated owners who don't take care of them.
Also:
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:47 PM   #72
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I should've known better to post that on an LS1 forum , looks like I'm bringing a pebble to a gun fight

I guess my experience has been somewhat "limited" as to the F-Body's I've been in, I've been around 5-6 different ones over the past 3 or so years, all of which squeaked and rattled, but it may be because 3 or 4 of those were when I was test driving them so I could pick which one I wanted to buy. However, it was my first car, so I never test drove a car that was priced over 3k, hence why they were priced in that range. The other 2 were high cam, big thumping 4th gens, so naturally the vibrations and the way the engine was set up rattled every plastic piece in the car because of the massive cams. Even the owners said that they are quite squeaky, but they have a good reason to when they're wielding 900hp. Given a well setup, maintained car, I don't doubt a bit that they can be very civilized and a decent ride, minus the solid axle... The solid axle is one thing I will never be able to go back to lol, I'll say it again: my preference is IRS all the way, others may differ.

The DE (03-05) is definitely not as good as the HR (07-08) you'll never see a DE walk an LS1 or even be able to match it. An HR vs LS1 will be a drivers race if everything is stock IMO. A modded race, LS1 will start to walk the HR on the top end. (I'll get dyno graphs later, PhotoBucket seems to be down at the moment)

Still though, with 2 less cylinders and with 2.2L less of engine all together... It's a pretty good feat in 07 IMO. 350Z's do sound like a vacuum cleaner that's going over shaggy carpet at full throttle though I prefer vacuum cleaners haha

Just so I'm not crazy as people are saying that F-Body's don't rattle or shake... I just need 1 person to agree with me to make sure I'm not going insane haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iNZdyOq7PU
I bought a 07 350Z right off the showroom floor in 07. Man that thing was a blast. This was my replacement to my 05 GTO (which I honesty did not like). With full bolt ons and a tune, it ran good. It was fast enough to beat c5 vettes (60-160mph), beat a "500hp" GTO (as I was told but doubt it) and even a few cam only 4th gens. Not only did it get 27-28 mpg but it rode nice and it was quiet inside. In the 4 years and 60,000 miles I put on it, it did not develop any squeaks or rattles. I was very happen. Hence the reason why I still have a Nissan as a DD.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:37 PM   #73
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I bought a 07 350Z right off the showroom floor in 07. Man that thing was a blast. This was my replacement to my 05 GTO (which I honesty did not like). With full bolt ons and a tune, it ran good. It was fast enough to beat c5 vettes (60-160mph), beat a "500hp" GTO (as I was told but doubt it) and even a few cam only 4th gens. Not only did it get 27-28 mpg but it rode nice and it was quiet inside. In the 4 years and 60,000 miles I put on it, it did not develop any squeaks or rattles. I was very happen. Hence the reason why I still have a Nissan as a DD.
^ I like this guy
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Old 02-06-2017, 10:38 PM   #74
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Yea, Accords are super awesome...
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:05 PM   #75
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This is why the Big3 almost went under 10 years ago. They refused to address their quality and performance issues and instead relied on the ignorance of most of their customers - all the while the rest of the world is passing them by. Eventually it caught up to them. American cars are still a far cry from the european and asian offerings, but at least things are getting better.
American cars were gaining in quality starting in the early 00s and GM was doing quite well by the bankruptcy in regards to quality and durability ratings. The bankruptcy was the culmination of about 40 years of financial mismanagement and kicking the can down the road til it collapsed. When they shed a lot of the dead weight after the re-org, they improved quality even more rapidly and most (including notorious Big 3 hater Consumer Reports) would say it's pretty close to the better import makes. BTW, even that was really a facade - yes Honda/Toyota were rock solid, but the other Japanese makes Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Subaru were all middling. The Koreans are now close to par with the best Japanese, and the Euros were hit or miss - VW/Audi has long been near the bottom, forget about Range Rover, MB is hit or miss depending on the line, and BMW is usually pretty good.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:44 PM   #76
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I bought a 07 350Z right off the showroom floor in 07. Man that thing was a blast. This was my replacement to my 05 GTO (which I honesty did not like). With full bolt ons and a tune, it ran good. It was fast enough to beat c5 vettes (60-160mph), beat a "500hp" GTO (as I was told but doubt it) and even a few cam only 4th gens. Not only did it get 27-28 mpg but it rode nice and it was quiet inside. In the 4 years and 60,000 miles I put on it, it did not develop any squeaks or rattles. I was very happen. Hence the reason why I still have a Nissan as a DD.
wait, your bolt on 350z beat cam only LS1 cars?...Didn't know cammed LS1's ran 13's.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:47 PM   #77
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wait, your bolt on 350z beat cam only LS1 cars?...Didn't know cammed LS1's ran 13's.
FYI - my best time in it was a 12.7 IRC with a pretty bad 60ft. On the track, yes a cam only LS1 should eat me off the line, especially an auto with a stall. But on the streets, its a whole different game. My 350z had very little traction issues and I knew how to launch it. So yes on paper (or the track), a cam only LS1 is the winner. On the streets, its whoever can put the power to the ground. Keep in mind too, the people I have raced might not have known how to drive. Most races were with random people that I pulled up next to.

Typical 3500lbs vehicle making 390hp to the wheels - 8.97lbs per HP

My 350Z scaled and dyno tested - 3100lbs 340whp - 9.1lbs per HP

Yep, that's pretty close.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:21 PM   #78
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FYI - my best time in it was a 12.7 IRC with a pretty bad 60ft. On the track, yes a cam only LS1 should eat me off the line, especially an auto with a stall. But on the streets, its a whole different game. My 350z had very little traction issues and I knew how to launch it. So yes on paper (or the track), a cam only LS1 is the winner. On the streets, its whoever can put the power to the ground. Keep in mind too, the people I have raced might not have known how to drive. Most races were with random people that I pulled up next to.

Typical 3500lbs vehicle making 390hp to the wheels - 8.97lbs per HP

My 350Z scaled and dyno tested - 3100lbs 340whp - 9.1lbs per HP

Yep, that's pretty close.
Did you have weight reduction? Everywhere i look, '07 is just under 3400 pounds...also...can a 350Z hit 340 to the wheel with just bolt on's? I thought those motors were notorious for not responding that well to bolt on's...they are rated around 300 hp stock, which would be 270ish to the wheels...
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:38 PM   #79
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Man you are jogging my memory on this. It was a long time ago. I think when I first put it on the scales, it was somewhere around 3275 in bone stock form. I did do a weight reduction plus most of the aftermarket parts I used weighed less then what was originally in place. I probably saved at least 50 lbs just with the exhaust, probably more. The older 350z's without the HR engine (single throttle body version) never made good power. Even with a supercharger, they would only make a hair more then a bolt on HR engine. When I dynoed mine in bone stock form, it was right around 280 whp. I may have forgot to mention that cams were part of bolt ons (they really do just bolt on!). Before cams, 320 whp. After 340 whp. Revved to 8200 rpms.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:03 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by 70 Bug Mid Engine View Post
FYI - my best time in it was a 12.7 IRC with a pretty bad 60ft. On the track, yes a cam only LS1 should eat me off the line, especially an auto with a stall. But on the streets, its a whole different game. My 350z had very little traction issues and I knew how to launch it. So yes on paper (or the track), a cam only LS1 is the winner. On the streets, its whoever can put the power to the ground. Keep in mind too, the people I have raced might not have known how to drive. Most races were with random people that I pulled up next to.

Typical 3500lbs vehicle making 390hp to the wheels - 8.97lbs per HP

My 350Z scaled and dyno tested - 3100lbs 340whp - 9.1lbs per HP

Yep, that's pretty close.
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Originally Posted by 70 Bug Mid Engine View Post
Man you are jogging my memory on this. It was a long time ago. I think when I first put it on the scales, it was somewhere around 3275 in bone stock form. I did do a weight reduction plus most of the aftermarket parts I used weighed less then what was originally in place. I probably saved at least 50 lbs just with the exhaust, probably more. The older 350z's without the HR engine (single throttle body version) never made good power. Even with a supercharger, they would only make a hair more then a bolt on HR engine. When I dynoed mine in bone stock form, it was right around 280 whp. I may have forgot to mention that cams were part of bolt ons (they really do just bolt on!). Before cams, 320 whp. After 340 whp. Revved to 8200 rpms.
Several problems with these comparisons, including the consideration of a cam (or cams) swap as a "bolt-on" (heads also bolt on for that matter ). Running a 12.7 with simple bolt-ons (exhaust, induction) would have been impressive for that car, but running it with internal engine mods is still way behind what the typical cammed/bolt-ons LS1 will run. My full weight '00 WS6 went 12.6s with just a 3500 stall, air lid, catback and DRs. With a mild cam, headers and tuning it went 11.9-12.1 depending on tires and track conditions, and my times were not record breaking by any means. If I had done any weight reduction, as you did, it would have been even faster.

Regarding the HP/lb argument, what is missing there is consideration of powerband and average torque - especially since these two engines are so different. Peak WHP numbers may be deceiving, and also don't account for drivetrain optimization (such as stall speed or gearing changes.) I do agree that traction is a huge variable, especially on the street.
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