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An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...

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Old 02-17-2017, 07:07 AM   #81
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Did you have weight reduction? Everywhere i look, '07 is just under 3400 pounds...also...can a 350Z hit 340 to the wheel with just bolt on's? I thought those motors were notorious for not responding that well to bolt on's...they are rated around 300 hp stock, which would be 270ish to the wheels...
You're correct. VQ engines don't gain for **** compared to LS and the like. It's basically intake and exhaust. Anything more and you're better off saving that money towards FI. Cams are gonna cost 1/3rd to 1/2 of a decent turbo or supercharger kit and you don't get much.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:45 PM   #82
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Several problems with these comparisons, including the consideration of a cam (or cams) swap as a "bolt-on" (heads also bolt on for that matter ). Running a 12.7 with simple bolt-ons (exhaust, induction) would have been impressive for that car, but running it with internal engine mods is still way behind what the typical cammed/bolt-ons LS1 will run. My full weight '00 WS6 went 12.6s with just a 3500 stall, air lid, catback and DRs. With a mild cam, headers and tuning it went 11.9-12.1 depending on tires and track conditions, and my times were not record breaking by any means. If I had done any weight reduction, as you did, it would have been even faster.

Regarding the HP/lb argument, what is missing there is consideration of powerband and average torque - especially since these two engines are so different. Peak WHP numbers may be deceiving, and also don't account for drivetrain optimization (such as stall speed or gearing changes.) I do agree that traction is a huge variable, especially on the street.
I do agree with you. A 12.7 was a very good time for the car yet many others have done it with similar mods (not just your average intake, cat back exhaust and tune). I also agree that a near stock 4th gen will break in to the 12s on the track and a cammed one can hit high 11s. Tons of people have done it so there is no denying it. My point was more of that you can take a high 11s car, put it on the street next to a high 12s car and have the slower car actually win. That due to traction issues on a non prepped street with a high powered car. Which that goes back to your other point. The way the power comes on. A v8 is going to have a ton more tq in the low end. A v6 will not, hence the reason why the v6 will have less traction issues on the street.

Also, I meant the "bolt in" cam thing as a joke. LS engines you "slide" the cam in, the HR engine you physically bolt the cams down (and let me tell you, it is way more work to do then a LS). And I do want to add that I did not buy the car to make it a drag car. It was built as a road course car that I enjoyed taking to the drag strip. If I wanted a drag car, I would have kept the 05 GTO I had before.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:50 PM   #83
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If I wanted a drag car, I would have kept the 05 GTO I had before.
I agree with everything you said above, except for this quote. If you're specifically seeking a drag car, the GTO wouldn't be at the top of my list - at least certainly not above an F-body. The extra weight, IRS, and [larger rear] tire fitment issues for GTO (as compared to F-body) are all strikes against it. The LS2 is certainly a plus for the '05/'06 cars, but in all other ways the GTO is an inferior drag platform with which to start.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:09 PM   #84
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I agree with everything you said above, except for this quote. If you're specifically seeking a drag car, the GTO wouldn't be at the top of my list - at least certainly not above an F-body. The extra weight, IRS, and [larger rear] tire fitment issues for GTO (as compared to F-body) are all strikes against it. The LS2 is certainly a plus for the '05/'06 cars, but in all other ways the GTO is an inferior drag platform with which to start.
Once again, completely agree. Was just using it as my example since I owned it and it had a LS. That thing could not get traction for the life of it. Could never get better then a 2.2 60ft on street tires! Was a 6 speed though once again setup for road racing.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:14 PM   #85
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Stock DE dyno (not HR. Like said above, HR's are much more refined) But yes, the VQ engines don't respond anywhere near like LS engines respond to mods. About all you can do is intake, exhaust, and a tune to a VQ. After that, FI or nitrous is the only real good power adder for the money.

Anyhow I meant for the conversation to be more headed towards the original post. I meant to bring up that a 350Z in 2003 had a lot of the qualities in the original post, only they were designed 14 years ago. Added in the fact that they are comparable in power of a LS on the street makes it all the more interesting provided that, well this is LS1tech. Thought I'd ruffle some die-hard LS fans' feathers
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:02 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Corvett z07 View Post
I meant to bring up that a 350Z in 2003 had a lot of the qualities in the original post, only they were designed 14 years ago. Added in the fact that they are comparable in power of a LS on the street makes it all the more interesting provided that, well this is LS1tech. Thought I'd ruffle some die-hard LS fans' feathers
The dyno you posted above is about ~65whp/~100wtq behind a stock LS1. I understand that the weight difference is about 200lbs when compared to F-body, but don't these cars (350Z) typically run stock times (both ET and MPH) more comparable to a totally stock LT1 (SBC) F-body? High 13s/low 14s for the most part? I guess the definition of "comparable" is subjective but, in terms of performance, I think it would be more accurate to group that generation of 350Z in with the '93-'97 F-body at best, which means that the 350Z was still 10 years behind for that performance level.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:36 AM   #87
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I had a completely stock 92 Lexus sc400 and ran a moded 350z , over drive off with the little power switch on and he never pulled on me, it was from a dig, my longtube headers off road y tune ls1 camaro is way faster then the sc400
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Old 02-20-2017, 11:39 AM   #88
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If you want to go fast in a 350Z, you either have to go forced induction or drop an LS1 in it, they are very limited in the power gains you can get with bolt-ons or even cams or motor/heads upgrades with the VQ engine.
By no means are these faster or in the same league as an LS engine, I even said so in my first post ^. A bolt on DE with good tires can run in the low 13's and the HR with the same mods will do mid to high 12's. Coming from a 3.5 liter v6 that is only ~200 pounds lighter than a 4th gen, that's nothing to shake your head at. Coupled with how well they are setup, you don't really need any suspension/chassis upgrades to make it a decent performer on the street. Like the OP says, in stock form the Accord annihilates how well it feels even when he spent a lot of time and money tuning and upgrading his 4th gen, yet it still doesn't even match the Honda. Some cars are so well tuned from the factory that they don't need a list of suspension upgrades or tire upgrades to be able to get grip from a dig, they just get up and go. BUT that's where it comes down to personal preference when one person feels like it's dumbing down the experience with all of the technical aids in driving basically numbing the experience all together. You get a nice feeling when you put on a part and you can feel it perform once you take it for a drive. On newer cars, it may already feel maxed out from the get-go. I think some of us defintely enjoy the "upgrade feel" when you change out parts and you can feel the difference in the seat of your pants. I know I do
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Old 02-20-2017, 02:02 PM   #89
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By no means are these faster or in the same league as an LS engine, I even said so in my first post ^.
But then you said this:

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Originally Posted by Corvett z07 View Post
I meant to bring up that a 350Z in 2003 had a lot of the qualities in the original post, only they were designed 14 years ago. Added in the fact that they are comparable in power of a LS on the street makes it all the more interesting provided that, well this is LS1tech. Thought I'd ruffle some die-hard LS fans' feathers
Comparable = "same league", IMO. Which they are not. Though, based on typical quarter mile performance and power/weight ratio, a comparison to stock LT1 4th gens might make more sense.
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:04 PM   #90
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But then you said this:



Comparable = "same league", IMO. Which they are not. Though, based on typical quarter mile performance and power/weight ratio, a comparison to stock LT1 4th gens might make more sense.
You're forgetting the most important part of that sentence you bolded. On the street. Engine for engine, dyno for dyno, LS wins hands down. On the street, well you have a few kill stories just a few posts above if you want to read them, and a few 350Z kill stories as well. A lot of it is driver dependent. However, they put down power much more consistently and have a decent torque range throughout the RPM. It's more difficult to put down power consistently on a 4th gen considering everything stock, hence why people buy upgrades to the car to be able to make it hook better.

So if you want to hear that the VQ engine is more comparable to an LT, it is. It's not as powerful as an LS. But when you're rolling down the street, anything can happen. A high 12 second car might just surprise an 11 second car if you're not careful...
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:20 PM   #91
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A high 12 second car might just surprise an 11 second car if you're not careful...
Well yes, when speaking of specific drivers/cars/conditions this is always true. Traction and driver skill play huge roles for sure, but those variables could be applied to a million different scenarios to suit any argument. In terms of potential stock performance, they really aren't comparable IMO.
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:19 PM   #92
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My gutted crx weighs 1800 lbs so it's fast..
Power to weight ratio

proceeds to Run a low 13
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:08 AM   #93
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My gutted crx weighs 1800 lbs so it's fast..
Power to weight ratio

proceeds to Run a low 13
I can't resist ....so it weighs about the same as a pair of panty's.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:12 AM   #94
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I can't resist ....so it weighs about the same as a pair of panty's.
What kind of women are you messing with??
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:23 AM   #95
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I can't resist ....so it weighs about the same as a pair of panty's.
Lmao.. I don't know about a pair of panties but a walkie ride pallet jack probably weighs about that..
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:10 PM   #96
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Woah! I used to post on here somewhat regularly as I had my full bolt on's 98 Z28 for 3 years. Still think LS1tech has been my best forum experience. Great members, I learned a ton.

I also ended up in a '14 Accord V6 EX-L 6 speed. In white orchid pearl with a black leather interior. Honestly, I love this car. It reminds me in some ways of my Z28 being a large coupe.

The V6 is seriously underrated. Honda claims 278 hp but there is just no way. 0-60 is in the 5.4 to 5.6 second range stock. And the car weighs 3400 lbs with a stick. So the hp is really closer to 300. I'd peg it at 290-295. Coming from a 98 Z28 with 380 hp at the crank on a real dyno, this isn't that much of a downgrade in straight line power. It really reminds me of the Z28 albeit with less torque. But it has that same broad torque band (252 ft lbs vs 335 ft lbs.) The Honda 3.5L V6 J series pulls to redline with even more urgency than the LS1. I bang off 7000 everyday and it loves it.

But even better than that, you don't NEED to rev to pass people in everyday situations. I can shift at 3-4 K and pass most people. And this thing gets 24 mpg 100% city driving in rush hour driven hard on 87 octane!!

The major downside of these new accord coupes is that the factory fuel saver tires SUCK. You can smoke them in gears 1-3 no problem, much like the
2006 SS with it's LS V8. The suspension is also a little on the soft side, but I'm planning on adding the HFP kit.

I've had my Accord for 7 months and I don't regret it at all. I tested it next to G8 GT's, Mustang 5.0's, Genesis Coupes, 5th gen Camaro's and so on. The Accord is a beast that you can drive all year round in the snow, rain etc. It gets great mileage, doesn't attract police attention and will beat up on a lot of sporty cars with it's 103 mph stock trap. 3rd to 4th is money So far, mine has a k&n drop in filter, FAST FC04 18x8 18.6 lb flow formed wheels and minor cosmetic mods. It will get the Borla axle back soon. But that will remove it's sleeper potential.

You did good op, these cars kick ***. They are not sports cars, but they hold their own and have a wonderful growling V6 with an amazingly smooth shifter.
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An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...-z28.jpg   An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...-accord_night.jpg   An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...-accord_night_2.jpg   An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...-fastbostonpizza.jpg   An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...-accord_night_front.jpg  


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Old 03-29-2017, 12:17 PM   #97
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Now...explain to me why I shouldn't install this exhaust?? It reminds me a little of my old Z28 setup at full throttle.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:31 PM   #98
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No. An LT1 f-body will eat that thing alive.
You are delusional. While that LT1 is coughing out it's opti, I'll be banging gears past it. An LT1 (stock) would be lucky to trap 100 mph 20+ years ago stock. A miled out flowmaster special ain't going to see **** all but accord booty passing it @ 103 mph stock trap. Take it from a guy who's owned a 98 Z28 and has driven several LT1 f bodies.

I used to be like you. Only buy GM. Guess what? My Accord is made in Ohio using American labor and parts and in fact, the only major part that is Japanese is the transmission. It has more American parts content than a mustang. You better pray that you never run into a stock V6 6 speed coupe if you think that your LT1 f body is king ****.

And I still LOVE 4th gen f bodies. Debate buying another one. Not an Import tuner guy. I'm 31 years old and have tried everything basically. But give credit where credit is due..

Last edited by calgary_z28; 03-29-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:10 PM   #99
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You are delusional. While that LT1 is coughing out it's opti, I'll be banging gears past it. An LT1 (stock) would be lucky to trap 100 mph 20+ years ago stock. A miled out flowmaster special ain't going to see **** all but accord booty passing it @ 103 mph stock trap. Take it from a guy who's owned a 98 Z28 and has driven several LT1 f bodies.

I used to be like you. Only buy GM. Guess what? My Accord is made in Ohio using American labor and parts and in fact, the only major part that is Japanese is the transmission. It has more American parts content than a mustang. You better pray that you never run into a stock V6 6 speed coupe if you think that your LT1 f body is king ****.

And I still LOVE 4th gen f bodies. Debate buying another one. Not an Import tuner guy. I'm 31 years old and have tried everything basically. But give credit where credit is due..
I drive an LS1. But I've seen the LT1 embarrass the new Honda with my own eyes. It was a Formula not a Camaro, but all the same. I'd be happy to embarrass you too while you try to "bang out gears", but I'd have to get permission to borrow the Formula cause I upgraded to LS1 long ago. The Formula was a standard and Honda automatic.
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:20 PM   #100
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYZgkOEB5hg

Now...explain to me why I shouldn't install this exhaust??

Because, gay.
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