An Accord V6 and the end of dreams... - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion



An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...

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Old 01-19-2017, 08:10 AM   #1
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Default An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...

I joined up on LS1tech and some other car sites back in 2006. From that point ownward I swore that the cars in my life would never go beyond my F bodies, my 2V's and my '69 Charger R/T. Even as fellow members on LS1tech slowly started to move into other platforms, like Vette's, CTS's, Bimmers, Terminators, Rice, whatever; I stubbornly declared that I would never need or want any other sort of car.

Over the years, I've spent a lot of good money on the suspension systems and chassis on these cars; I thought they were OK stock, but with the improvements from Hotchkiss, Strano, Eibach, Koni, Fox and other companies I was pretty damn proud of my cars and figured they could handle just about anything.

Well, fast forward from 2006 to 2017; the girlfriend decided to come home one day with a 2017 Honda Accord V6 and, well, it was a slap in the face, and a definite wake up call to say the least.

I don't know if you guys have ever driven or ridden in one, but these 2017 Honda Accords are NICE. Let's start out with the dumb stuff, like the interior. Fit and finish of all of the interior pieces is, to me, spectacular. Not a gap anywhere, and there isn't anything that doesn't fit or looks out of place. And, unilke my cars, if you move a switch or a panel it doesn't creak or move as if it's about to break off. Well, if you're in my '97 Z28 or my '69 Charger, it probably will break off. So you've got to be EXTRA gentle. At speed, the Accord glides along with hardly any sound penetrating the cabin. My cars? Noisy, and if you were in my '69 Chager or the '97Z28 you'd think the world was ending because of all the ruckus.

Secondly, and most importanly, we come to the performance. Off the line this Accord V6 will ruin my '98 2V and '69 Charger like they were stalled at the light. This Accord would at least pace if not slightly edge out my '97Z28. I think the '01 2V might be able to beat the Accord, but I'm not entirely sure about that one. As for the '99 WS6, I'm sure the Firebird would beat the Accord but it wouldn't be by bus lengths. This Accord pulls hard for....a Honda Accord!

The most painful thing is the suspension and handling of the Accord. What can I say, other than this car is freaking BALANCED. Here I am, spending thousands of dollars, reading countless threads on different car forums, talking to vendors and racers like Sam Strano over the course of about 10 years, yet despite this investment of time and money I am going to say that none of my cars can come close to the polished, adroit handling, lazer straight tracking, poise and balance that the Accord has. I mean, this Honda will burn through all of the curves and chicanes that my cars will, but without the fuss and the drama. It's as if the Accord was built to be a great handling platform from the drawing board, as the engineers were dreaming up the car. The Accord is a born, natural handler, while I had to bolt and weld-on buckets of parts just to improve my cars.

So here I am, facing the reality of a group of old cars looking a lot older and less capable in front of a car that isn't even intended for sportiness or performance. Oddly enough, I sorta feel the same in my personal life; watching younger guys move, twist and turn through life with an energy and agility that I used to have when I was their age. I guess this thread isn't really about the cars, but more about me getting older and being replaced and being eclipsed by the youth and energy of the newer people and cars. What's going to become of me and my stable?

Well I still don't think I can give up my machines, I love them too much, despite their shortcomings. I figure we'll all just keep our heads up as high as possible and age gracefully. I've got a Borgeson steering conversion from a new Jeep coming up for the Charger; maybe I can show that new Accord and it's millenial driver a thing or two...
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:40 AM   #2
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I hear ya.... I went from my 06 Cobalt SS/SC to a 15 Subaru legacy and it was night and day different. I still have my Camaro SS. When I drive the Camaro then drive the Subaru right after its so different, quiet, smooth. I understand what your saying and agree with you 100%. I never thought I would own a Japanese car....now I don't want anything but a Subaru.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:16 AM   #3
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Yeah the older we get the more refined we become. I couldn't get my wife to stop driving Lexus cars if I wanted too. Ten years ago she went from a Chevy to a Lexus and there has been no looking back.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #4
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Uhm, I put bus lengths on a new V6 Accord multiple times, with a 1998 WS6, both from a roll and from a stop light. My buddy has one that he loves and we went messing around one day.

I'm super impressed with how modern V6's are performing, no doubt, but I have no idea what you're smoking about it pulling on your Camaro/Trans Am. He couldn't even touch me the one time I messed up my launch.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:13 AM   #5
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Well 15+ years of technology will do that. Also added that the cars you mentioned are American muscle type cars they were built to be fast in a straight line honestly and not be overly expensive to do it. My wife drives a 2010 Honda Civic Si and the suspension on it makes my 2000 SS feel like a tank. On the other hand my SS has a built 408 and is turboed and makes 900 hp so it is a fun *** car.

As far as the age thing goes everyone goes through it. I turn 44 in two weeks and it has gotten to point that I don't even want to drive the SS anymore really because it rides rough, it's loud and uncomfortable and feels old.
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:40 AM   #6
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New cars are definitely nice, just about every manufacturer is putting out some really nice stuff compared to just 10 years ago. The technology has really come along so you have cars that originated as cheap economy cars that are now actually pretty damn quick and fun to drive, not to mention getting crazy MPG. Hell I thought my Prius C was a fun little car to rip around in when I first got it, compared to my previous old jeep and even older trans am.

The downside to it all is car payments. New cars are getting expensive, but I've never really minded paying monthly for something nice that I know won't let me down, and not wasting my weekends doing repairs. I drive 35k miles a year though, so reliability is key for me.
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:58 AM   #7
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I'm a holdout. I drive my 2000 Silverado with 315K miles and my 68 Suburban. My WS6 sits in the garage and looks pretty. It's a nice, comfortable car for me because I drive **** everyday. So getting into it feels nice. I would hate to drive it everyday though. Would get old VERY quick.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:10 PM   #8
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My friend has a 15 Accord sport 4cyl. It's a nice little daily driver.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:24 PM   #9
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Accord V6 a mid-14second car. About what a stock 5.0EFI in the 87-93 Fox Mustangs would do. Strange you do not mention the torque steer of the FWD under hard acceleration.

As for the rest, I do not doubt the ride improvement over the Charger especially and the other cars. Accord was made to be a pleasant car to drive within limits.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:36 PM   #10
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Age (I am also in the ~40 range) has done nothing to make higher refinement or luxury a requirement for me, I would still be daily driving a 4th gen if not for the horrible climate in which I live and the damage said climate did to the last one I used in this way. I simply don't want to "use up" another one in salt and snow. Otherwise, they fit me like a glove and I don't suffer from any of the fatigue or pain that some others my age (and even younger) have complained about during long trips or daily driving. I'm even [mostly] comfortable in my '71 with a bench seat and factory style suspension (other than traction bars, which admittedly amplify harsh roads and can sometimes get on my nerves.)

Overly refined cars get a bit boring [transportation appliance] and lack the raw feel [machine] that makes older muscle cars appealing to me. Newer cars (speaking of various 2010-2014 models that I own or have driven) tend to isolate the driver, making the road seem more like a movie that's being watched rather than an interactive experience in which to participate. I'm not really a fan of this for the most part, but the average commuter probably finds it desirable and considers it an improvement.

Chassis design has certainly improved since 1969, but comparing a '69 anything to a '17 anything is just silly at this point. Even if the '69 has undergone an entire nut-and-bolt rotisserie restoration you still can't completely account for, or correct, chassis fatigue over the last 48 years of road use. In fact, the same can be said about this 2017 Honda....don't expect it to drive as tight and refined when it's 48 years old, even if you've kept up with maintenance.
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Old 01-19-2017, 04:13 PM   #11
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Pics of 69 Charger please! Love them!
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
Over the years, I've spent a lot of good money on the suspension systems and chassis on these cars; I thought they were OK stock, but with the improvements from Hotchkiss, Strano, Eibach, Koni, Fox and other companies I was pretty damn proud of my cars and figured they could handle just about anything.
Within reason, with the right parts they certainly can. With the right setup they will have high end sports cars throwing fits.
What exactly suspension-wise does the said trans am have?

Quote:
Well, fast forward from 2006 to 2017; the girlfriend decided to come home one day with a 2017 Honda Accord V6 and, well, it was a slap in the face, and a definite wake up call to say the least.

I don't know if you guys have ever driven or ridden in one, but these 2017 Honda Accords are NICE. Let's start out with the dumb stuff, like the interior. Fit and finish of all of the interior pieces is, to me, spectacular. Not a gap anywhere, and there isn't anything that doesn't fit or looks out of place. And, unilke my cars, if you move a switch or a panel it doesn't creak or move as if it's about to break off. Well, if you're in my '97 Z28 or my '69 Charger, it probably will break off. So you've got to be EXTRA gentle. At speed, the Accord glides along with hardly any sound penetrating the cabin. My cars? Noisy, and if you were in my '69 Chager or the '97Z28 you'd think the world was ending because of all the ruckus.
Ive never been in a 2017 accord but Ive been in plenty of other nice, higher end luxury cars (my dad owns a 2016 Cadillac CTS with sport package/magnetic ride and AWD for example- it wont touch my car in the corners, while it does handle and feel fantastic for a heavy car, very well balanced and has computer aids as well)
If your car is noisy on the inside get some dynomatt or something similar, it will make a world of difference. If you have rattles find them and fix them.

Modern day cars are going to have vastly better build quality and fit and finish than cars from the 90s, there is no getting around that.

Quote:
Secondly, and most importanly, we come to the performance. Off the line this Accord V6 will ruin my '98 2V and '69 Charger like they were stalled at the light. This Accord would at least pace if not slightly edge out my '97Z28. I think the '01 2V might be able to beat the Accord, but I'm not entirely sure about that one. As for the '99 WS6, I'm sure the Firebird would beat the Accord but it wouldn't be by bus lengths. This Accord pulls hard for....a Honda Accord!
Your Z28 isn't running right then, especially if a 2v can hang with it.

Quote:
The most painful thing is the suspension and handling of the Accord. What can I say, other than this car is freaking BALANCED. Here I am, spending thousands of dollars, reading countless threads on different car forums, talking to vendors and racers like Sam Strano over the course of about 10 years, yet despite this investment of time and money I am going to say that none of my cars can come close to the polished, adroit handling, lazer straight tracking, poise and balance that the Accord has.
Any new car, especially a luxury one will ride and handle well and should be balanced. But if you have parts from Sam Strano it makes me wonder if you actually bought the right stuff/have the car setup right the Accord shouldn't even be a thought in your head.

Quote:
I mean, this Honda will burn through all of the curves and chicanes that my cars will, but without the fuss and the drama. It's as if the Accord was built to be a great handling platform from the drawing board, as the engineers were dreaming up the car. The Accord is a born, natural handler, while I had to bolt and weld-on buckets of parts just to improve my cars.
While its true the Accord with having a new chassis will be built for curves, you shouldn't have to weld anything for your Fbody (SFCs dont do squat for handling), and most of the good parts were technically factory options (1LE optioned cars got Koni DAs, 35mm front/21mm rear swaybars and slightly stiffer springs and bushings, so really strano springs would be the only true "aftermarket" part).

So as i said before, with the right parts/setup, the performance side of things is a non issue.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:55 PM   #13
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Wifes car is a 2014 accord sport.. i honestly love it. Drives great, gas mileage is awesome.. but i love how it looks compared to any other 4 door sedans for the price.



The newer accords look sweet too.. tail lights looking like a bimmer. Pretty sick.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:12 PM   #14
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I think ANY HAHAHONDA is the most boring GAY POS that anyone could drive. I would drive a Yugo with a rainbow sticker before I'd drive a HAHAHAHonda!

IF ANY of YOU actually think a HAHAHAHONDA is cooler or more fun to drive or anything you all need to look in the mirror and ask HOW DID I GET SO GAY!
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RockinWs6 View Post
I think ANY HAHAHONDA is the most boring GAY POS that anyone could drive. I would drive a Yugo with a rainbow sticker before I'd drive a HAHAHAHonda!

IF ANY of YOU actually think a HAHAHAHONDA is cooler or more fun to drive or anything you all need to look in the mirror and ask HOW DID I GET SO GAY!
This is usually the kind of post you see from a 13 year old X-Box owner to a Playstation owner. But I suspect you are joking. Lol.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:06 AM   #16
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Secondly, and most importanly, we come to the performance. Off the line this Accord V6 will ruin my '98 2V and '69 Charger like they were stalled at the light.
What sort of engine is in your Charger? You called it an R/T so I assume it's some sort of BBM, most likely a 440? Is the engine completely original with exhaust manifolds, factory mufflers and no carb or ignition refresh since the Nixon administration? If not, your statement above seems like quite an exaggeration.

Looks like a 2017 Accord V6 is about 34xx-35xxlbs, depending on options, so they are not go-carts. The V6 is rated at 278hp @6200 and 252ft.lb. @4900. That's not terrible for a V6, but nothing about this should destroy a healthy 440 off the line unless it simply can't get traction or has gears tall enough to reach land speed records at Bonneville with a 3-speed.

I think the Accord felt particularly quick to you because of the aggressive factory gearing. Assuming it was an auto trans, that's a 3.359 internal first gear with a 3.94 final drive ratio. But with only 252ft.lb. of torque on tap, and not until 4900rpm, even that aggressive gearing wouldn't be enough to shut down a healthy BBM with matched stall speed and/or decent gearing off the line. Big block torque production should be about double that Honda V6 figure, unless you've swapped in an unmodified smog era big block or something like this.

High speed/long distance runs might be a different matter due to gearing limitations and drag factor, but the only thing keeping a decent 440ci behind this Accord off a stop light would be traction issues.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockinWs6 View Post
I think ANY HAHAHONDA is the most boring GAY POS that anyone could drive. I would drive a Yugo with a rainbow sticker before I'd drive a HAHAHAHonda!

IF ANY of YOU actually think a HAHAHAHONDA is cooler or more fun to drive or anything you all need to look in the mirror and ask HOW DID I GET SO GAY!
Your veil is about as subtle as the star QB that plays smear the queer only to retreat to the safety of home for a tearful jerk to a men's fitness magazine followed by wallowing in self pity and confusion.
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:51 AM   #18
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They don't do much for me but get me from point a to point b. They are appliances like a dishwasher. But sometimes that's a good thing.

You drive your trans am, it's an experience, you see maybe 1 or 2 others on the road or none. Its an enthusiasts car.

The best mod for any fbody or vette or sports car is a cheap daily driver. It helps you keep your sanity. But in my opinion it's not worth spending 30-40k on, maybe 5-10.

Fit an finish, don't even try to compare the two lol. My rsx had 184k on it, drove great, interior was still nice and tight.

Until you've done it yourself you don't realize how much better these honda and Toyotas are then gm crap.
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Old 01-20-2017, 07:53 AM   #19
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I feel that the newer cars have so much safety stuff like traction control, Stability control and other stuff that it dumbs down the driver experience. Now you drive a F-body and that thing could get away from you at anytime you mash the gas. I am more in tune when I drive the SS than the legacy.
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:52 AM   #20
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My nearly stock 17 year old WS6 would destroy ANY Honda Accord in any type of race. If yours can't I suggest you pull the banana out of the tail pipe!
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