anyone ever build a turbo or full HCI 416+ car and wish they did the opposite - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion



anyone ever build a turbo or full HCI 416+ car and wish they did the opposite

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Old 10-11-2017, 08:36 PM   #1
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Default anyone ever build a turbo or full HCI 416+ car and wish they did the opposite

one of the bigger debatable topics is turbo vs cubes. anyone built what they wanted then wish they did the opposite? I've been getting the car ready for more power until i decide what i want. i have twin pumps and a 9 inch already and was always wanting cubes, but if i was gonna go that route I'm looking at 14000 or a hair more for an assembled resleeved 427+ long block with killer heads. thats the route i would go. on a scale of 1-10, 10 being max effort, i would be around an 8 money wise. you could do a new forged turbo motor with 317s for under 9000. plus i see turbos are doing better than these big cube guys.

now i will be keeping the M6, no ifs ands or buts. am i wrong with the assumption that turbos belong in autos? don't u technically loose a little boost when u let off the to shift vs an auto where ur on it during shifting? which way would u go nowadays?
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:04 PM   #2
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i should add, it is a 99% street car. also open to procharger considerations as well.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:24 PM   #3
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Yes
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:39 PM   #4
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No turbo situation here but I did a 383 with direct port setup back in the day and wish I would have went boosted. Now that I have a ProCharged car no way would I ever do a NA build again.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:53 AM   #5
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A very close friend had a Procharged 2001 SS Camaro for a while.
He won't consider anything but forced induction set ups after that experience.
His comment on my 383 LS1 91 RS - "..man this is a sweet car just needs a Procharger.."

He doesn't post on forums but he will say go FI built it right and nevertheless look back.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:06 AM   #6
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I'm only 25 but old school in my likes of "nothing is better than an N/A motor that can blow the doors off of boosted setups" the thing i really like about the thought of a boosted setup, mainly portrayer, is i can leave the motor in there. i literally can get away with just doing a cam swap, and rod bolts, and should be good for awhile like that. than bolt up the portrayer kit and just go. no waiting for a new motor to be installed. what are your thoughts of a turbo in an M6 car. for whatever reason most of the turbos on here are autos, but that may be because they're mostly drag cars
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A View Post
A very close friend had a Procharged 2001 SS Camaro for a while.
He won't consider anything but forced induction set ups after that experience.
His comment on my 383 LS1 91 RS - "..man this is a sweet car just needs a Procharger.."

He doesn't post on forums but he will say go FI built it right and nevertheless look back.
my opinion on that first part tho. his procharged camaro probably made 100 more rrwhp than your car so of course most ppl are gonna be like, man u need boost. what if it was turned around, and a say a fully built on spray ls3 car making around 800 rwhp was being compared to a 600 rwhp resolved car. both essentially the same number until the nitrous car sprays. everyone is gonna be like, " hey man, u need to spray" . i feel like when comparing 2 cars, it seems like if car A beats car B, than car B needs to become like car A.

what i should have said was,
what is everyones opinion on building a small cube boosted car to make a safe and reliable 600 rwhp, vs building a big cube car to make 600 rwhp. I'm almost certain line the 2 up in the same type of car and almost always boost will win, but I'm kinda looking for the which is more exciting factor.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #8
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All of them have they ups and downs.

All motor cars mean simplicity. It's quite a few that run 10s with stroker setups on pump gas with a 6 speed. Good heads and cam goes along way. In my eyes simplicity means reliability.

Turbos- if you do it the "right" way it's get expensive. Most guys run automatics behind them as already mentioned. You have to deal with wastegates etc....

Procharger- I honestly think they sounds the best period. It's some guys on here that have had problems with them like the rest.

Nitrous- if you spend the money on a nice kit and don't abuse it... it's fun and has came along way as far as safe/safety goes.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:47 AM   #9
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All of them have they ups and downs.

All motor cars mean simplicity. It's quite a few that run 10s with stroker setups on pump gas with a 6 speed. Good heads and cam goes along way. In my eyes simplicity means reliability.

Turbos- if you do it the "right" way it's get expensive. Most guys run automatics behind them as already mentioned. You have to deal with wastegates etc....

Procharger- I honestly think they sounds the best period. It's some guys on here that have had problems with them like the rest.

Nitrous- if you spend the money on a nice kit and don't abuse it... it's fun and has came along way as far as safe/safety goes.
No nitrous for me sorry. Ill abuse the hell out of it and go through a tank super fast. I think im off of the turbo idea because altho it may be easier than i think, im no fabricator no have experience with turbos so i would have to have aomeone do the install for me. And like u said can get expensive quick making that option just as much if not more than an na setup. It wouldnt be the same to me personally knowing i had nothing to do with the motor. So turbo is now out.

Lets talk procharger vs na...... Both should always have power right there on demand, and i could probably install a procharge
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:16 PM   #10
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If your paying someone else to do all the work, 9K seems low for a end to end install and tune and .... Assuming your using front line parts and there is always some fab work. The one upside is the turbo allows multiple tunes so you can tone it down on the street and turn it up on the track if you line up all the cards correctly...
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #11
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You live in Eastern PA--the belly of cheap turbo LS builds making great power with "overwhelmingly mediocre" parts.

You're right that an NA build is more simple. However, high lift cams to achieve that 600hp put a lot of strain on the valvetrain. Failed lifters, broken valve springs, and spun cam bearings can cause some serious damage that requires a fair amount of work and $$$ to fix. I wouldn't consider that any more or less reliable than a turbo setup. If you want an engine with big power, there are going to be some risks. It's something you really have to accept and be prepared for--a dedicated savings account for such things is key.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:42 PM   #12
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I will never do another NA build again either. Foolish waste of money.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:47 PM   #13
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What do you want to know specifically about NA vs ProCharger? I have experience with both.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:06 PM   #14
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Whats the highest hp stick car youve driven wide open on the street?

If i were you id find two dudes local to you with 650+rwhp NA and turbo stick cars and talk to them about their cars. Go for a ride, or maybe even drive if they're willing.
Like stated above there are pros and cons to both.

I also will never lose the stick in my car. I'll build another car as an auto when that day comes.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:19 PM   #15
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Large cube NA should be kept to class racing and nostalgia factory cars. Once you start shooting for 550rwhp or higher, FI starts to become a bargain compared to NA. I will say that turbos must be auto is completely false. Plenty of fun stick turbo cars, especially if you're talking 99% street car. Yes auto will be faster with a turbo since you never lose boost and can build boost from a dig, but it can be plenty fun if the turbo is sized properly.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:40 PM   #16
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Detox, if i was your friend and said, and i said i have a decent running cam only 400 rwhp fbody, with a fat 9 inch, twin pumps, sticky clutch. Motor has 115k tho. Not on barrowed time but u never really know. Would u tell him to order a d1sc kit after swapping out the cam for a turbo grind, (heads can stay untouched, already have double springs), so 9000ish or so, and assume/hope the motor makes it 25000 miles with the help of rod bolts, or call up mamo and be like, sell me a top end amd cam for this resleeved block i just picked up.

The difference really is, is a badass na 427+ worth the extra $5000 over a d1sc setup on a higher mikeage motor? I know i could 5.3 it, but one of the major benefits to me of the procharger is the motor can stay put.

Im estimating it would be $9000 for a d1sc setup, and 14,000 for the na setup, both with the help of the classifieds section here.

Basically the car is ready for mor power and so am i. It wont happen for amother year, but i can start picking up deals when they come along here
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #17
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Again the 14000 number im getting at is 2000 for u used resleeved block, 3300 for heads, rotating assembly lightly used with h beams could be around 1800 with pistons, maybe less. So another 7000 for everything else, and to have someone build it. Ill be able to install it myself
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:45 PM   #18
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Maybe i should just supercharge a c6gs and call it a day lol. Ill get a vette eventually, already decided that. I just wont give up my fbody like a lot of others have and regret it, like alot of others have. Maybe i can go big na for my fbody, giving it that old school muscle feel, and i can procharge the vette and that can be my new, refined and more "smooth" of a drive.

Last edited by Floorman279; 10-12-2017 at 06:47 PM. Reason: .....
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:48 PM   #19
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I will never do another NA build again either. Foolish waste of money.
Why a waste? U seem to take pride in ur projects
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorman279 View Post
Detox, if i was your friend and said, and i said i have a decent running cam only 400 rwhp fbody, with a fat 9 inch, twin pumps, sticky clutch. Motor has 115k tho. Not on barrowed time but u never really know. Would u tell him to order a d1sc kit after swapping out the cam for a turbo grind, (heads can stay untouched, already have double springs), so 9000ish or so, and assume/hope the motor makes it 25000 miles with the help of rod bolts, or call up mamo and be like, sell me a top end amd cam for this resleeved block i just picked up.

The difference really is, is a badass na 427+ worth the extra $5000 over a d1sc setup on a higher mikeage motor? I know i could 5.3 it, but one of the major benefits to me of the procharger is the motor can stay put.

Im estimating it would be $9000 for a d1sc setup, and 14,000 for the na setup, both with the help of the classifieds section here.

Basically the car is ready for mor power and so am i. It wont happen for amother year, but i can start picking up deals when they come along here
The blower setup gets your more bang for your buck and you have the ability to up the power level at a later date. Only so much youíre gonna get out of a NA build without it being nitrous assisted and then you donít get the power all the time. D1SC setup is the way to go in that scenario.
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