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STANG KILLA SS goes "racin"

 
Old 03-05-2019, 01:27 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by landstuhltaylor View Post
Only if you believe their marketing and listen to idiots at track days. Pretty widely known it's an old tire that lasts a long time but has zero grip.
I dont read any manufacture hype. but i cant say ive ever heard anyone else talk about this tire like you are. but my finding do match your statement. unless the cold was at fault.

but im not super worried about the tires. i can fix those by going back. just and expensive experiement.

but the brakes have me baffled. very odd symptoms.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Paveglio View Post
StangKiller: In braking do you think you were having ICE mode (no braking, hard high pedal)? With all your events I assumed you'd maybe experienced it before ... I am also not 100% sure if C6 has the ice mode problem or not in the ABS unit.
yeah i think my issues are more deeply rooted like your suggesting. VERY odd symptoms. i think i got into ICE mode once on the camaro. but its been so long, i dont remember what it did, or how i got out of it. but i think i do remember experiencing it once.

Originally Posted by JimMueller View Post
Say, how do we get those rear tires from the Can Am car at all four corners under our fenders?
no ****. the pics dont do them justice! those rear tires were MASSIVE, as tall as wide. just giant.

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Old 03-05-2019, 06:31 PM
  #263  
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A refresher on ice mode: pitch car hard into corner; all 4 wheels rotating at different speeds. Pressing the brake while wheels all rotating at different speed (or one gets to lockup too fast), maybe at high rpm (not sure what all inputs are actually taken into consideration), ABS computer decides you are on ice, does not know what to do, and so it closes off the input lines to the ABS unit, and you get about 25% braking ability. Literally the unit closes the hydraulic input lines, the pedal feels hard as a rock because you can not actually push fluid anywhere. You'll just blow your MC seals the harder you press. The only solutions are
  1. Quickly let off the brake and get back on it, hopefully in this 1/2 second you are a little slower and straighter
  2. Adjust your line to go to the runoff area if safe
  3. Plan ahead and always do more braking in straight line, don't trail brake, or don't do it when you are heading into a high pucker factor corner, or not so abruptly
  4. Accept that if ice mode strikes, you're comfortable blowing your AX run or lap, as bringing the car home in 1 piece is more important than this run/lap so you mitigate the outcome and stay cool.
  5. Also watch for bumps/ripples partway through corners that could upset the car or let a wheel get light and lockup too fast

That you said your bad brake issue was at high RPM is familiar. I tried to track down what I thought was vacuum leaks for years (with vac canisters, pumps, checkvalves) to no avail until I came to the realization ice mode was real and I have it worst when I was throwing the car hard into corners and hoping ABS would help stop me; but in fact it worked against me. (Wasn't that how ABS was sold to the public? Anyways...) Driving smoother helps reduce the likelihood of ice mode. I have had it far less now from adjusting my too-agressive style to be smoother yet keep momentum in turns.

A quick google search shows CorvetteForum posts describing it (unclear exactly what car years). Cold tires with less grip certainly also increase brake distance compared to your old setup. I hope this helps.
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:39 PM
  #264  
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What the others said. the r888 is a **** tire, the rival (s 1.5) is the fastest tire on the corvettes short of an r-comp slick.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by landstuhltaylor View Post
The R888 is a **** tire, I have no idea why you thought it would be better
Originally Posted by DietCoke View Post
What the others said. the r888 is a **** tire, the rival (s 1.5) is the fastest tire on the corvettes short of an r-comp slick.
the R888 is a totally different old tire than the R888R that im running.

and yes ive never seen anyone run a R888 on track. seen plenty of high level trackers running the R888R.
either way doesnt matter. ive already got a set of Rivals ordered.
the brake pedal push back is the one im trying to solve.
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Old 03-06-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS 2 View Post
the R888 is a totally different old tire than the R888R that im running.

and yes ive never seen anyone run a R888 on track. seen plenty of high level trackers running the R888R.
either way doesnt matter. ive already got a set of Rivals ordered.
the brake pedal push back is the one im trying to solve.
Everyone who bothered to post is well aware of what tire you're running. It's not magical, it's a **** tire. And everyone still calls them R888s.

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Old 03-07-2019, 07:35 AM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by Chris Paveglio View Post
A refresher on ice mode: pitch car hard into corner; all 4 wheels rotating at different speeds. Pressing the brake while wheels all rotating at different speed (or one gets to lockup too fast), maybe at high rpm (not sure what all inputs are actually taken into consideration), ABS computer decides you are on ice, does not know what to do, and so it closes off the input lines to the ABS unit, and you get about 25% braking ability. Literally the unit closes the hydraulic input lines, the pedal feels hard as a rock because you can not actually push fluid anywhere. You'll just blow your MC seals the harder you press. The only solutions are
  1. Quickly let off the brake and get back on it, hopefully in this 1/2 second you are a little slower and straighter
  2. Adjust your line to go to the runoff area if safe
  3. Plan ahead and always do more braking in straight line, don't trail brake, or don't do it when you are heading into a high pucker factor corner, or not so abruptly
  4. Accept that if ice mode strikes, you're comfortable blowing your AX run or lap, as bringing the car home in 1 piece is more important than this run/lap so you mitigate the outcome and stay cool.
  5. Also watch for bumps/ripples partway through corners that could upset the car or let a wheel get light and lockup too fast

That you said your bad brake issue was at high RPM is familiar. I tried to track down what I thought was vacuum leaks for years (with vac canisters, pumps, checkvalves) to no avail until I came to the realization ice mode was real and I have it worst when I was throwing the car hard into corners and hoping ABS would help stop me; but in fact it worked against me. (Wasn't that how ABS was sold to the public? Anyways...) Driving smoother helps reduce the likelihood of ice mode. I have had it far less now from adjusting my too-agressive style to be smoother yet keep momentum in turns.

A quick google search shows CorvetteForum posts describing it (unclear exactly what car years). Cold tires with less grip certainly also increase brake distance compared to your old setup. I hope this helps.
Since ABS takes a restart of the engine or a half a lap to reset itself, has anyone ever wired a switch inline with power to ABS for a quick reset or would it have to go to the BCM?
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:39 PM
  #268  
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We have some folks testing the Falken Azenis RT615K against the Toyo RR tires we're mandated to run. Apparently the 615 was faster on the initial test, so we'll see how the rest of this goes with summer heat around the corner and more cycles on them.

If you plan to cage this thing and go wheel to wheel you're going to want spherical bearings, coilovers, and 2 piece brake rotors at least up front. I can't imagine running ST1 or STU with no aero.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:21 PM
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The RT615K is a reaaaaaaaally slow tire too. If I wanted good life and pretty good but not top of the heap grip I would be going straight for the Hankook RS4.
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by landstuhltaylor View Post
The RT615K is a reaaaaaaaally slow tire too. If I wanted good life and pretty good but not top of the heap grip I would be going straight for the Hankook RS4.
Bah, not with the Hulk Green wheels you run LOL 295-40-18 is the biggest per "da Rack" website.
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:43 PM
  #271  
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295 will fit just fine on a 12
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:18 PM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by landstuhltaylor View Post
The RT615K is a reaaaaaaaally slow tire too. If I wanted good life and pretty good but not top of the heap grip I would be going straight for the Hankook RS4.
Price point is the driving factor with the 615, though I see Tirerack has them priced comparable to the RS4. I had the 615 years ago and liked the Advan Neova AD07 better. I really wish the RS4 came in 295/40/17 for my Z06. I'm sure 285/35/18 will be good enough though. Just get A7s Stang Killa.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:26 PM
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ABS is not really a good system to have on a serious race car, certainly if I had the OP's brake problem the ABS would be gone immediately.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:57 PM
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I'm glad you aren't wrenching on my car
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:34 AM
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Well I guess that some drivers can't brake without the aid of ABS and get to rely on it. But its no secret that skilled unaided braking gives better results.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:02 AM
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For a car that still sees normal street use, I think ABS is worthwhile. After my ice mode woes and investigation, I think that it's still good to keep. The ABS unit (at least talking about F-bodies, maybe corvette is a little different i'm not sure) does the dynamic proportiontion (IIRC) and if you remove it and go full manual, then you have to adjust your F/R balance, and I hear that's still not ideal. So I choose to keep the ABS and adjust my driving style, which is maybe for the better as I've had 2 FTDs in '17 (ax, with some good competitors), clearly I'm not getting slowed down wrongly by adjusting.
As for a switch to cycle the ABS on course (magicmike), that sounds like a Very Bad Idea™. And not needed, ice mode comes and goes and, again IIRC, does not permanently hinder the car while its running, ie no need to have to reset it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:03 AM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by 260DET View Post
Well I guess that some drivers can't brake without the aid of ABS and get to rely on it. But its no secret that skilled unaided braking gives better results.
Yeah you're right, ABS is only for crappy drivers. That must be why F1 banned it in the 90s.
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Supercharged111 View Post
Yeah you're right, ABS is only for crappy drivers. That must be why F1 banned it in the 90s.
It's nothing to do with crappy drivers, as I've already mentioned ABS delete gives a driver an opportunity to use his skill to brake better without it. The choice lies with the driver, does he want to try to get an advantage over ABS drivers or not? Are we racing or not?
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:03 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by 260DET View Post
It's nothing to do with crappy drivers, as I've already mentioned ABS delete gives a driver an opportunity to use his skill to brake better without it. The choice lies with the driver, does he want to try to get an advantage over ABS drivers or not? Are we racing or not?
I don't know, are you?
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Supercharged111 View Post
Yeah you're right, ABS is only for crappy drivers. That must be why F1 banned it in the 90s.

Your first mistake was equating an f1 abs system to the factory abs system.
The factory abs system doesn't belong on a race car, it's literal garbage.
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