jmortensen

How about suggestions on an oil cooler? Would like to know size and brand if brand is important. I've got one person telling me that a cheap ebay cooler was all that was needed and is holding up, but would appreciate having more than one data point.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

What do you recommend for orifice size on the restricted pushrods?

jmortensen

Post #39. .040".

jmortensen

Looking at something a bit different: marine oil coolers. I like this idea because no thermostat required and would heat the oil too. Seems to work for BBC and SBC boat motors, don't see why it wouldn't work on my LS. Price is good too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seakamp-212...5IN9:rk:1:pf:0

Chris Paveglio

iTrader: (2)

Hm, that seems like the thing the 4th Gen TA/SS had, the water to power steering "cooler" <cough heater>. Those things were junk IMO, I removed mine and went with a plate cooler. A friend had one that leaked. I don't know that you really need oil heating, that should get up to temp quick. Not sure it would cool a whole lot, if you run 200 degree water to 250 degree oil, the differential is low. Even 95 degree air temp is lower.

jmortensen

Just thought I'd report back. Did some dyno tuning on the L33. Probably made 20 pulls, no oil leaks. Looks like pushrods fixed the problem. With .581 220/224 112+2 cam it made 337whp and 334 tq with either a spark plug or wire going bad on us. You could hear that it wasn't hitting on all 8, but we were running out of time and we would have had to go get the parts.

.boB

iTrader: (1)

First off, never buy cheap parts, they're too expensive.

Oil to Water coolers are not really coolers. They are heat exchangers. They exchange heat between the water and the oil. Sometimes that's good, and sometimes it's not. In a race car, it's generally not.

Plate style coolers are the most durable, most reliable and most efficient available. Of course, they are also the most expensive. You get what you pay for (if you're lucky).

Install the biggest one you can fit. If you don't have much space, consider two coolers in series. Use big lines, like -10; otherwise you can get a serious pressure drop. I think this is an Earls part. Mocal also makes good components.

Attachment 715255

I don't think I'v ever seen my oil temps >210*F. Usually well under 200* on hot days.

.boB

iTrader: (1)

Diet Coke, I always enjoy reading your posts. They are factual, intelligent, and direct. I pretty much agree with everything you said. And sometimes I even learn a thing or two from you. Thanx for the help.

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

Is this sarcastic? I'm still wondering what the difference is between unmetered and vacuum leak. And while of course a carb isn't metered, the Jets and mixture is tuned for the given amount of air.

Back to the topic, improved racing makes some great oil products. I used their thermostat but a Derale 25 row cooler cause I'm cheap. Track temps went from 300 to 250 max. -10 lines for sure, summit hose and fittings, cheap and easy to make lines, plus some heat/abrasion sleeve.

DietCoke

iTrader: (18)

One can cause the other, but they are not the same thing. Additionally, unmetered air can entire outside of the pressurized area of the engine in the case of EFI. Example 1: You have a vacuum leak that caused unmetered air to enter your intake manifold somewhere. Example 2: You have a tear in your intake boot causing unmetered air to enter past the MAF. Things can get complicated in boosted setups, with leaks around throttle body blades, bearings, even carbs - but think of a vacuum leak as a potential (but not definite) source of unmetered air. Example 3 : You have a pcv setup in such a way that your valve covers are open to atmosphere to vent pressure, with your valley connected to your intake tract to also assist in pulling vacuum. This will lower idle vacuum by 5-10% because some of the available intake vacuum ends up pulling in air from the crankcase. Understand, however, that this is like putting a straw in a firehose. The amount is insignificant. Under wide open throttle this straw sized "leak" is introduced at a consistent and known rate in such a way that your engine tune would simply adjust the metering rate (be it through MAF or SD tables) to ensure the right amount of fuel still goes to the engine. Your LTFT will do this automatically without you adjusting the tables but you can also adjust it in the tune so LTFT isn't involved. The fact that the engine pulls so much air in at WOT or sustained WOT is why having a line connected to intake for PCV is so beneficial. You make a ton of pressure on the crankcase/noncombustion side that needs somewhere to go and the intake vacuum helps pull some of that to alleviate the work the valve cover vents (or catch can/s) are already doing.

jmortensen

Back for more info. After 5 race outings that ended with mechanical failures of one sort or another, I did a local autox where I got 15 runs and came in 2nd overall. Super happy with that. Still having oil leak issues out of the valley cover. After 15 runs, catch can was completely empty.

For the PCV, I currently have -10 fittings on both valve covers to a catch can and a LS6 valley cover with 3/8" line Teed into one of the -10 lines.

Problem is still oil leaking around the valley cover. It's not a lot, but it definitely lost a few ounces. I asked on another forum and an automotive engineer said that the LS is unique in that you can depressurize the valve covers but the crankcase can still have pressure in it. This seems very weird to me, you would think that it would just blow oil back up into the heads until the pressure escaped. He also suggested venting from the front cover instead of the valley cover as it is a more direct path from the crankcase, or running 2 larger vents from the valley cover if I went that way.

Here's a little video from the event. Not my fastest run, but a mid day run. I think I shaved a second off of this one for the fastest, but don't have any video from the last two sessions. Actual run starts at about 1:30:

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

I don't understand the tee from one of the -10 valve cover lines to the valley cover, that is completely messing up the intended flow. Throttle body/intake after air filter to valve covers, valley cover to catch can to intake manifold, that's it. The bigger lines are good, but I don't know what the "engineer" is talking about with pressure inside, the valve covers and crankcase share the same space, no separation of pressure.

jmortensen

Engine is carbed. Flow path is to the catch can.

jmortensen

I dunno what to think about his idea about the block being pressurized but not the heads, but I can say that I went from pushing a lot of oil into the catch can to the can being totally dry, but I still have a leak out of the valley cover and none from valve covers. He's saying the heads fill with oil and there is no way for the pressurized block to exhale due to shitty oil drains. I would think that it would just push the oil out of the way to escape, but again, not getting oil out of the catch can anymore, so ???

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

So that makes a little more sense, if the oil is pooling(which it does) it is possible to basically vapor lock between heads and lower crankcase. How did you change the setup from when can collected oil to now that it's not?

jmortensen

Restricted orifice pushrods, -10 vents on valve covers, and LS6 vented valley cover to a large catch can with big filter.

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

So -10 from each valve cover to can, one with a line tee'd to the valley cover, and nothing going to the intake?

jmortensen

Correct. I had tried it with the LS6 vent plumbed directly to the intake. Still leaked. According to the engineer guy that is because the valley was probably flooded and it couldn't get the pressure out of the crankcase.

Really thinking about trying to vent the front cover. There is not a lot of room though.

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

As it sits, you're not pulling any air thru the can which is why no oil is in it, it's just vented to the atmosphere with the vent which is fine, but since you're trying to fix the leak something else must be going on. Current setup the valley shouldn't be flooded, not much oil should be flying around there which is why GM used the location for the PCV on the LS6 for track applications and I think the GTO's got the same setup but maybe for production reasons.

To actually pull air thru the can to collect oil you need a hose from the can to the intake and seal the vent that is on the can unless it has a check valve on it for exit air only to prevent pressure build up. I like the idea of fresh air being moved thru the crankcase so I would go that route, but probably not a big deal to leave it how it is either.

Back to the oil leak, I would just put new valve cover gaskets and valley cover gasket, and check that PCV hoses are tight. I can't image where else it would be coming from.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

I fail to see any mention of pressure ranges optimal for your application.
wet sump desirable crankcase pressure in the range of 85-90KPA generally
here is the sensor you can use to monitor crankcase pressure easily affordably: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MultipleTyp...PjKGZAIIfkZy0Q
It works just like analog wideband input for stand-alone and Hptuners ecu.

Less pressure is better oil control and potentially more power if enough vacuum is used. Low crankcase pressure pulls against wet-sump oil pressure so watchout with the excess vacuum at low rpms. Since you define the application based on rpm range I would not use a restrictor(second picture) at all, keep it a simple hose and just use a slightly restrictive air filter to drop the post air filter pressure during WOT (dial the air filter restriction up so that it produces 85-93KPA in a tube at WOT which is then tied to the crankcase through a large hose as shown in the picture). The lower pressure in the pre-throttle body region(84-94KPA) will pull the crankcase volume down from (102~KPA) and help control oil at the cost of hp probably. if it help... it would be worth its weight right

These are the potential conditions you can achieve with various crankcase apparatus,






when the application is 'high rpm constantly' extra large vent tubes should be used (the tubes that connect filtered air to the crankcase with no check valves can be large -10 -12 etc) although this will reduce the effectiveness of idle&cruise pcv actions it will ensure no blockage of flow is available to evacuate crankcase vapors during high RPM conditions.

If the engine has good leakdown and good seals, good crankcase pressure range. Then it should not spill oil unless you have a bad O-ring or something somewhere.
Or that accusump is overfilling (maybe a flaw or malfunction is possible?)