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Updated cost post. Sold some parts here is a pic of the current mock-up state.
The front of the cab in about the right height. The rear is about 4 inches too tall. Once I lower everything, I have to measure sitting in the seat with a helmet and check for fitment for roll cage and other items. I don't want the cage to be anyway close. Been doing a lot of research on cage distance and all that. The cage probably won't be certified but I am trying my best to make it regulation for going in the 10's. I think I have to lower the seat which means lowering the floor since the cab is right where I want it. We will see.
Lots of measuring and research now, saves time, cost, and headaches later.
So just bought a bunch of parts from someone clearing out their garage. 4L80e, driveshaft, 8.8 rear end, Weld wheels with tires, small fuel cell, turbo headers, BOV, WG, and a bunch of other parts that I really need to help make it all work. Hopefully have it all Saturday and I'll take pics of it all.
I also ordered all the roll cage stuff. I bought a cage that already had pretty close measurements to what I needed. Hoping it works out in my favor. If it doesn't work I can still use the tubing for something else.
I also was thinking to set an ET goal on this project. I think 500-600whp, with <3200 lbs I could get into the 9s. I would be happy with a 9.9. I might need caltracs or something to keep the rear end from hopping but we shall see. I have a long road ahead of me.
Here is where I need help:
I am running into some huge leg room issues. It seems that my legs have to be bent pretty good for me to hit the gas and brake pedal. If I raise the seat to make it more comfortable, I lose any room for a helmet + rollcage since I want +4" of room around my head (I think rules say something like 2"). I can't really tilt the seat back since that throws a bunch of driving geometry off. I don't want to raise the cabin off of the frame since I want that low look/style. My last resort was to actually pull the cab back towards the rear and/or push the firewall forward... or a combination of raise the seat a bit, change seat geometry, and pull the cab back.
How is everyone else doing it with these small *ss cabs while still being relatively comfortable and close to correct?
With the proportions of this truck I think you can slide the cab back and give yourself more leg room buy punching the firewall forward. It would give a longer nose pushing the front wheels forward, if you were going to 4 link the rear you could even push the rear back a bit.
With the proportions of this truck I think you can slide the cab back and give yourself more leg room buy punching the firewall forward. It would give a longer nose pushing the front wheels forward, if you were going to 4 link the rear you could even push the rear back a bit.
Ok, glad I am not crazy. We are on the same page. I plan on trying to pull the cab back 2", firewall forward 2-4" and maybe raise the seat up 2" and I get what I want. The PITA parts is what I am doing now, but once it's done, the rest of the build is just bolting things up and finding new homes for it all.
Thank you all so far in this endeavor... hopefully it will be a help for someone once I start to really get into the design/build. I need to get more pics of the build.
So I started to mock up the roll cage. I took the risk and bought a pre-made roll cage to save money as I don't have a tube bender. The cost of one of those looks to be about $600+dies+tube which is currently out of the picture. Well, my halo is way too close to my helmet for me (about 3.5"). I had the girl sit in the seat and her shoulders are about 2" lower than mine so it's even worse for me. The first pic is the distance I want from helmet to halo... she couldn't hit it if she tried, however I pushed the seat over so much the corner of the seat is really close to the drive shaft... I just don't get how this kit is for any vehicle. This '36 cab is a very small cab, yet the halo feels like it needs 5" more on width and length. Is this just me?
I have to figure out how to make this work. I might widen the halo (correctly) and then figure out how to tie that back into the main hoop.
Any pointers will help. I know a custom fit cage will be well worth the investment, but that might be later on in the build as funds for a tube bender, dies, and DOM tubing is just outside the cost range right now.
*Sidenote: That shoulder holes look to be too low for her which is then definitely too low for me... :Might need a new seat then.
Well Jegs came through on the return of the wrong cage. Return policy was simple and I just have to tape it up as best I can and Fedex will ship it. It was a free return.
To that note; I got their Roll Cage Size Chart which had all the cages they provide with basic measurements to help pick the best one. I put them into an excel sheet with a bunch of conditions/rules for what I needed and color coded them. After it colored all the cells, the one that met all my needs other than my A-Pillar angle was a 1982-04 S-10/15 12-point cage (odd since I just bought a frame from a 97 s-10). $250 (plus a $100 freight fee). Hopefully this one works as the other kit I didn't have to pay a freight fee.
It's only rough measurements, but I think I will be able to work with it... worse case I bought a cage for the other frame I have or cut the tube up and make other parts with it.
Another area where I need help:
1) I need to do some investigation on 4-link coil setups. I think I am going to do the transmission (4L80e), driveshaft, rear-end, 4-link conversion all in 1 swoop now rather than later since I have most of the components. Any helpful links will be helpful. I know there is a TON out there so I can find it on my own as well.
2) I know almost nothing about automatic transmissions and torque converters and what specs you need (manual guy here). That said the stuff I bought came with a 3600 Freak Show. That is all I know about it. I called them to find out more about it and he said on n/a it might be a little tight, but once I turbo it, it should be perfect. I also have to get a spacer and do some drilling on the flexplate. Is there a write up somewhere on the flexplate mod?
At this point it will be as below: Any issues that stand out?
4.8 (as this point n/a, will be turbo), 4L80E, 3600 Freak Show, upgraded driveshaft, 8.8 with 3.73s
I used a freak show converter in my turbo Nova 5.3. It is a $350.00 budget converter built by a one man shop with tons of experience (used to build the converters for Redneck performance). I haven't been to the track yet, but it is doing great on the street.
I used a freak show converter in my turbo Nova 5.3. It is a $350.00 budget converter built by a one man shop with tons of experience (used to build the converters for Redneck performance). I haven't been to the track yet, but it is doing great on the street.
Awesome. That is great to here. Thank you for the input.
So I just found the rabbit hole... I might need someone to chim in here:
I want to try to get this running in phases/stages where I can progressively build what I want, however I am on the edge of going down the rabbit hole of "If I do this, I should do this... and since I am doing that, just do this too..."
That being said, I will be taking out the 4L60E, stock driveshaft, 10-bolt, rear leaf spring setup, and chopping about 2 feet off the rear end of the frame.
I will be putting in the 4L80E, shorter driveshaft, 8.8, and most likely Triangular 4-link with coil overs. Since I am switching transmissions, I now need to invest in HP tuners to change the computer over to use the 4L80E. Right?
If I invest in HP tuners because of the 4L80E swap and knowing nothing about HP tuners and tuning, does Matt (Denmah) have a stock 4.8 with a 4L80E tune with all the evap and crap removed? Or is it only ones with injectors, cam, turbo, etc etc. I couldn't' seem to find a "fixed" stock tune on the wiki.
And that leads me to my next thing, should I just go and do ALL the engine crap now and then I can use the "Don't BS Me" tune and at least have a good star?
I am at the tipping point and I really don't want to do the hp tuner and power adder stuff just yet.... I would really like to just get the thing build with the correct suspension and work on the power later.
Updated the parts I bought. I bought a bunch of stuff for $1700 so I separated it out as estimates to keep track of the budget. Some parts I need to sell and some I will use.
Over the Holiday. I did get the TC, 80e, driveshaft, and 8.8 rear end mocked up. Looks like I need a flexplate spacer and make a custom transmission mount and figure out the rear end.
The rear end needs front and rear shackle mounts, step frame, and shock mounts.
I bought HP tuners pro and love it for the diagnostic value alone... I also wanted to be able to load different tunes. I was having a perplexing problem with my build that appeared after the final dyno tune so I bit the bullet and bought it. You definitely should be able to find what you need on Denmah's tune cabinet.
I bought HP tuners pro and love it for the diagnostic value alone... I also wanted to be able to load different tunes. I was having a perplexing problem with my build that appeared after the final dyno tune so I bit the bullet and bought it. You definitely should be able to find what you need on Denmah's tune cabinet.
For sure. I am hoping HP Tuners Pro goes on sale for the holidays (it wasn't for black Friday). If not, ill just buy it when I need it (which is sooner and sooner)
Struggles right now:
1) TC seems to be "sunk" into the 80e more than it should. I believe I need a flexplate spacer. Just need to measure it all and find the right spacer.
2) Wiring is becoming more and more concerning as I am starting to change a lot and I don't know what I need and don't need.
-Removing Evap/emissions, radio, airbags, AC/heat.
-Keeping lights, blinkers, gauges, fans, and everything else to make it run
-Rewire for 80e and SD
I just don't know what to remove vs keep. Working in progress
3) Rear suspension. I was able to slide it all underneath (keeping s10 leaf springs and not going 4-link just yet). Next is to just fab up some leaf spring brackets and step the frame.
I wouldn't consider buying HP tuners now to be going down the rabbit hole. It can also be used for various other projects in the future. It's more of a tool investment, and the more you use it the more you learn--which is really priceless.
In addition, investing time and effort into building around the 4L60e will be a waste.
I wouldn't consider buying HP tuners now to be going down the rabbit hole. It can also be used for various other projects in the future. It's more of a tool investment, and the more you use it the more you learn--which is really priceless.
In addition, investing time and effort into building around the 4L60e will be a waste.
Agreed on both. There was no sales on HP tuners so it's going to wait till I get closer to it starting.
I also agree that the 60e is junk. Selling it hopefully today since the 80e is already in.
Starting "modeling" (using PPT since Solidworks keeps crashing) the s10 suspension underneath the Silverado frame. Since I am sure I won't get it right the first time I am going to have a few positions for the leaf springs. Yes I will have to keep in mine pinion angle and all that as the adjustments happen but I plan on making it something like below. The 4-Link will have to come later when I learn more about it.
Agreed on both. There was no sales on HP tuners so it's going to wait till I get closer to it starting.
I also agree that the 60e is junk. Selling it hopefully today since the 80e is already in.
Starting "modeling" (using PPT since Solidworks keeps crashing) the s10 suspension underneath the Silverado frame. Since I am sure I won't get it right the first time I am going to have a few positions for the leaf springs. Yes I will have to keep in mine pinion angle and all that as the adjustments happen but I plan on making it something like below. The 4-Link will have to come later when I learn more about it.
I built a triangulated 4 link for my ‘51 Ford F1 build. It hooks up and rides a ton better than the leaf springs which bucked like a donkey and wrapped so badly it creates massive drivetrain vibrations.
I will I’ll look up my design. It is more complicated than just eyeballing the 4 bars if you want good driving dynamics.
The 4WD guys at pirate have an excel-based design tool I found which is excellent. I wanted a balance of minimal driveline angle change, traction in braking and acceleration and minimizing rear steering affect with bumps. This is like balancing a one legged stool and raising or lowering pickup points even 1/4” makes a big difference for driving dynamics.
It took pobably 25 hours for me in fabrication and design but was well worth it. Biking has double adjustable coil overs which I recommend for suspension tuning after.
Stags - if you wanna minimize rear-steer with those leafs, lengthen that rear shackle so that the front and rear mount heights are equal. And adding a panhard rod really helps settle things down in the turns with the leafs....
I built a triangulated 4 link for my ‘51 Ford F1 build. It hooks up and rides a ton better than the leaf springs which bucked like a donkey and wrapped so badly it creates massive drivetrain vibrations.
...
Please send me some links or anything. I am worried the 4-link is going to slow down the build too much at this point since I am doing everything front scratch (including the rest of the build). It might not be if I can get some measurements or general rules I need to follow etc etc. I just need to pick the brain or someone who has done it before.
Originally Posted by Michael Yount
Stags - if you wanna minimize rear-steer with those leafs, lengthen that rear shackle so that the front and rear mount heights are equal. And adding a panhard rod really helps settle things down in the turns with the leafs....
Oh the springs should be equal height? That is news to me. I have been looking at stock vehicles and such and they always have the front lower than rear. I will look into making them level. Not sure how much I can but definitely something to look into.
Thank you
Originally Posted by Jimbo1367
I think if your girl/women was in a bikini while you got measurement / pics it would help us all realize your goals. Worth a shot. LOL
Haha. I will let her know you are having trouble understanding my goals and her contribution will be critical to the build.
As a side note I got a spare set of roll cage bars from Jegs for free because they messed up my orders so much. I am happy with that since now I have a BUNCH of test bars to practice welding and all that. I might be able to use some of the pieces for a 4-link.... Do you think 1-5/8" x 0.134 Wall Mild Steel Tubing is good for suspension?
10-31-2017, 10:37 AM
