What Happened to the Late Great 01-02 SS?
04-23-2017, 11:02 PM
#1
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What Happened to the Late Great 01-02 SS? The last few years I've been thinking and I cannot understand why the late 4th Gen Camaro SS died such a sudden death. Makes NO sense to me. The 01-02 Camaro SS in my opinion was a marvel of engineering. Highly underrated Sports Car. Add a few bolt-on mods to the 02 SS and you could reach 400+hp. That is plenty horsepower--even today. The 5th and 6th gen Camaros dont look so great to me. I don't know why, and those early 2000s GMMG Camaros were unreal beauties also. GMMG! Just unreal machines! How and why the late 4th Gen Camaro SS fade away so quickly is not even comprehensible and my gut says that one day these Camaros will come back and increase in value.
If I had the money back then I would have invested and purchased ten 2002 Camaro SSs and a few GMMG Camaros -- Stowed them away in some warehouse the until 2025.
We owe a huge debt to Scott Settlemire and those lat 4th Gen Camaro teams at GM because they truly did an amazing job.
I love the 01-02 Camaro SS Cars! Looking back it seems unreal how the late 4th Gen Camaro died such a sudden death .... I'm speechless.
If I had the money back then I would have invested and purchased ten 2002 Camaro SSs and a few GMMG Camaros -- Stowed them away in some warehouse the until 2025.
We owe a huge debt to Scott Settlemire and those lat 4th Gen Camaro teams at GM because they truly did an amazing job.
I love the 01-02 Camaro SS Cars! Looking back it seems unreal how the late 4th Gen Camaro died such a sudden death .... I'm speechless.
04-24-2017, 10:28 AM
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Having purchased a 2002 L.E. in June of 2015 I am happy that I don't see a ton of these on the road, I always draw attention where ever we go with ours. I could of and could still buy a new one but you see them everywhere.
04-24-2017, 01:12 PM
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I'm not sure why you're singling out the '01-'02 examples specifically. They only make about 1.5-2% more power than the earlier examples. There is certainly no magic about a 2002 (in fact, the record fastest stock LS1 F-body was actually a 1999 Z28 driven by Evan Smith.) I've owned 4 of the 5 model years of LS1 F-body and I can say from experience that an LS1 is an LS1. There are certainly differences between the years (I could post comprehensive links that I've written outlining many of the differences if you were interested in reading such), some positives and some negatives depending on personal goals and priorities, but in the grand scheme they are all basically the same car.
It wasn't really a secret as to why production was ended. Slow sales and an aging platform that needed a complete redesign were the final death blows. GM had talked about this earlier in the 4th gen run, I remember at one point hearing that 1999 would be the last year for F-body.
Don't get me wrong, I love these cars as much as any other two people combined. I've owned four, bought two of them brand new, and have owned at least one at any given moment for the last 18 years and will likely always have one. They are one of my personal top favorite cars of all time. But the death of the platform wasn't a shock to any of us at the time it happened, everyone knew it was coming.
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RollingThunder (10-24-2022)
04-25-2017, 10:01 AM
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Then you would have lost a ton of cash. I don't follow pricing on the GMMG cars specifically, but even the nicest examples of highly SLP optioned 2002 SSs, including examples with 3-5k miles or less, don't sell for more today than their original MSRP (in fact, usually much less.) Factor in what you would have paid in sales tax, and costs to store/maintain/insure for all these years and you'd be so far behind on this investment that you would have done better to park that same money in a basic savings account and collected the marginal interest.
A couple of things....
I'm not sure why you're singling out the '01-'02 examples specifically. They only make about 1.5-2% more power than the earlier examples. There is certainly no magic about a 2002 (in fact, the record fastest stock LS1 F-body was actually a 1999 Z28 driven by Evan Smith.) I've owned 4 of the 5 model years of LS1 F-body and I can say from experience that an LS1 is an LS1. There are certainly differences between the years (I could post comprehensive links that I've written outlining many of the differences if you were interested in reading such), some positives and some negatives depending on personal goals and priorities, but in the grand scheme they are all basically the same car.
It wasn't really a secret as to why production was ended. Slow sales and an aging platform that needed a complete redesign were the final death blows. GM had talked about this earlier in the 4th gen run, I remember at one point hearing that 1999 would be the last year for F-body.
Don't get me wrong, I love these cars as much as any other two people combined. I've owned four, bought two of them brand new, and have owned at least one at any given moment for the last 18 years and will likely always have one. They are one of my personal top favorite cars of all time. But the death of the platform wasn't a shock to any of us at the time it happened, everyone knew it was coming.
A couple of things....
I'm not sure why you're singling out the '01-'02 examples specifically. They only make about 1.5-2% more power than the earlier examples. There is certainly no magic about a 2002 (in fact, the record fastest stock LS1 F-body was actually a 1999 Z28 driven by Evan Smith.) I've owned 4 of the 5 model years of LS1 F-body and I can say from experience that an LS1 is an LS1. There are certainly differences between the years (I could post comprehensive links that I've written outlining many of the differences if you were interested in reading such), some positives and some negatives depending on personal goals and priorities, but in the grand scheme they are all basically the same car.
It wasn't really a secret as to why production was ended. Slow sales and an aging platform that needed a complete redesign were the final death blows. GM had talked about this earlier in the 4th gen run, I remember at one point hearing that 1999 would be the last year for F-body.
Don't get me wrong, I love these cars as much as any other two people combined. I've owned four, bought two of them brand new, and have owned at least one at any given moment for the last 18 years and will likely always have one. They are one of my personal top favorite cars of all time. But the death of the platform wasn't a shock to any of us at the time it happened, everyone knew it was coming.
and...IMO, along with everything you said, the fact that the modern muscle car era has continued grow exponentially since the late 90's has hurt the values as well, if the mid 70's happened all over again 2003-2013 I think the values would be a lot higher for 4th gens...but so many auto makers have put out great muscle cars since 2002, and financing is crazy cheap, so you can get a lot better car for not much more money than what people want for a clean LS1 4th gen.
04-25-2017, 11:40 AM
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Then you would have lost a ton of cash. I don't follow pricing on the GMMG cars specifically, but even the nicest examples of highly SLP optioned 2002 SSs, including examples with 3-5k miles or less, don't sell for more today than their original MSRP (in fact, usually much less.) Factor in what you would have paid in sales tax, and costs to store/maintain/insure for all these years and you'd be so far behind on this investment that you would have done better to park that same money in a basic savings account and collected the marginal interest.
A couple of things....
I'm not sure why you're singling out the '01-'02 examples specifically. They only make about 1.5-2% more power than the earlier examples. There is certainly no magic about a 2002 (in fact, the record fastest stock LS1 F-body was actually a 1999 Z28 driven by Evan Smith.) I've owned 4 of the 5 model years of LS1 F-body and I can say from experience that an LS1 is an LS1. There are certainly differences between the years (I could post comprehensive links that I've written outlining many of the differences if you were interested in reading such), some positives and some negatives depending on personal goals and priorities, but in the grand scheme they are all basically the same car.
It wasn't really a secret as to why production was ended. Slow sales and an aging platform that needed a complete redesign were the final death blows. GM had talked about this earlier in the 4th gen run, I remember at one point hearing that 1999 would be the last year for F-body.
Don't get me wrong, I love these cars as much as any other two people combined. I've owned four, bought two of them brand new, and have owned at least one at any given moment for the last 18 years and will likely always have one. They are one of my personal top favorite cars of all time. But the death of the platform wasn't a shock to any of us at the time it happened, everyone knew it was coming.
A couple of things....
I'm not sure why you're singling out the '01-'02 examples specifically. They only make about 1.5-2% more power than the earlier examples. There is certainly no magic about a 2002 (in fact, the record fastest stock LS1 F-body was actually a 1999 Z28 driven by Evan Smith.) I've owned 4 of the 5 model years of LS1 F-body and I can say from experience that an LS1 is an LS1. There are certainly differences between the years (I could post comprehensive links that I've written outlining many of the differences if you were interested in reading such), some positives and some negatives depending on personal goals and priorities, but in the grand scheme they are all basically the same car.
It wasn't really a secret as to why production was ended. Slow sales and an aging platform that needed a complete redesign were the final death blows. GM had talked about this earlier in the 4th gen run, I remember at one point hearing that 1999 would be the last year for F-body.
Don't get me wrong, I love these cars as much as any other two people combined. I've owned four, bought two of them brand new, and have owned at least one at any given moment for the last 18 years and will likely always have one. They are one of my personal top favorite cars of all time. But the death of the platform wasn't a shock to any of us at the time it happened, everyone knew it was coming.
Quoted for truth, you are a wealth of knowledge, I always like to see your opinion!
and...IMO, along with everything you said, the fact that the modern muscle car era has continued grow exponentially since the late 90's has hurt the values as well, if the mid 70's happened all over again 2003-2013 I think the values would be a lot higher for 4th gens...but so many auto makers have put out great muscle cars since 2002, and financing is crazy cheap, so you can get a lot better car for not much more money than what people want for a clean LS1 4th gen.
and...IMO, along with everything you said, the fact that the modern muscle car era has continued grow exponentially since the late 90's has hurt the values as well, if the mid 70's happened all over again 2003-2013 I think the values would be a lot higher for 4th gens...but so many auto makers have put out great muscle cars since 2002, and financing is crazy cheap, so you can get a lot better car for not much more money than what people want for a clean LS1 4th gen.
04-25-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quoted for truth, you are a wealth of knowledge, I always like to see your opinion!
and...IMO, along with everything you said, the fact that the modern muscle car era has continued grow exponentially since the late 90's has hurt the values as well, if the mid 70's happened all over again 2003-2013 I think the values would be a lot higher for 4th gens...but so many auto makers have put out great muscle cars since 2002, and financing is crazy cheap, so you can get a lot better car for not much more money than what people want for a clean LS1 4th gen.
and...IMO, along with everything you said, the fact that the modern muscle car era has continued grow exponentially since the late 90's has hurt the values as well, if the mid 70's happened all over again 2003-2013 I think the values would be a lot higher for 4th gens...but so many auto makers have put out great muscle cars since 2002, and financing is crazy cheap, so you can get a lot better car for not much more money than what people want for a clean LS1 4th gen.
And I absolutely agree with the point you added, regarding the lack of a watershed moment in stock performance such as what happened in the mid-'70s. Since the time of LS1 F-bodies, factory cars have continued getting faster - so the only real advantages to a 4th gen are its simplicity (both to modify and maintain), its affordability (relative to new/newer performance cars) and, subjectively, its styling/design. And as affordability is one of the primary considerations for current 4th gen enthusiasts, I don't see any massive spike in value happening in the near or mid term.
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04-26-2017, 03:37 AM
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Please tell me how a 5th Gen Camaro SS or Z28 is so much better than the 2002 SS? Besides the 150+ increase in HP how much better is it? The 6th gen 1LE or ZL1 is way better than the 01-02 SS I will admit but the 5th gen vs 4th gen (01-02 SS) is not that much better. The only big bad thing in the 01-02 SS was the uncomfortable cheap front seats. Other than that it was a fine Muscle Car and ahead of it's time for that era of Muscle Cars. Also check out the Mustang forums, those guys have a huge following in all generations. Makes no sense!
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fucter (04-16-2021)
04-26-2017, 11:35 AM
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Please tell me how a 5th Gen Camaro SS or Z28 is so much better than the 2002 SS? Besides the 150+ increase in HP how much better is it? The 6th gen 1LE or ZL1 is way better than the 01-02 SS I will admit but the 5th gen vs 4th gen (01-02 SS) is not that much better. The only big bad thing in the 01-02 SS was the uncomfortable cheap front seats. Other than that it was a fine Muscle Car and ahead of it's time for that era of Muscle Cars. Also check out the Mustang forums, those guys have a huge following in all generations. Makes no sense!
04-26-2017, 01:35 PM
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Please tell me how a 5th Gen Camaro SS or Z28 is so much better than the 2002 SS? Besides the 150+ increase in HP how much better is it? The 6th gen 1LE or ZL1 is way better than the 01-02 SS I will admit but the 5th gen vs 4th gen (01-02 SS) is not that much better. The only big bad thing in the 01-02 SS was the uncomfortable cheap front seats. Other than that it was a fine Muscle Car and ahead of it's time for that era of Muscle Cars. Also check out the Mustang forums, those guys have a huge following in all generations. Makes no sense!
Subjectively, I do agree that the 4th gen is a "better" car than a 5th or 6th gen Camaro....for me. But much of this has to do with my personal preferences and opinions regarding such areas as gadgets, simplicity, styling, driving experience, etc. To the average person, they'd rather have a newer car with a warranty, fresher parts, faster stock acceleration, and modern tech gadgets. Most consumers would agree that the newer cars are better, but that doesn't necessarily make them right or wrong in a subjective comparison.
I like fresh parts and more stock power too, but I'd prefer them wrapped up in a 4th gen (vs 5th or 6th.) Ideally, I'd love to be able to buy a brand new 4th gen today, with a full factory warranty and an LS3 engine. I'm not even a huge fan of the Gen V LT1 due to the complexity and potential long term maintenance issues of DI....LS3 would be my engine of choice.
04-26-2017, 11:52 PM
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04-27-2017, 01:45 AM
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I agree with RPM also. Mainly the visibility, the weight of the vehicle, I love the interior of my 4th gen better, simplicity to work on, parts are cheaper. Also the fact I don't see another Hardtop SS at all makes me very happy. I can't go a day without seeing a 5th or 6th gen SS. These cars aren't for everyone, it's up to us who love them to appreciate them and keep them lurking the streets.
04-27-2017, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
But much of this has to do with my personal preferences and opinions regarding such areas as gadgets, simplicity, styling, driving experience, etc.
04-27-2017, 09:07 PM
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Agreed. I think the late 4th Gen SS is a great Camaro. Only the seats I don't like but with a good upholstery job, the front seats could be like a La-Z-Boy Easy Chair.
04-29-2017, 06:13 PM
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Like I said the only things I did not like about the great late model 4th Gen Camaro (01-02 SS) were the seats and low HP (350). The seats were horrible! Other than that I believe the 02 SS was one of the best engineered Camaros ever built. I know many hard core Camaro Lovers hated the Catfish looking front end .... Again it is hard to understand the zero following this Camaro has today when you consider the 90s and early 2000s Mustang following is going strong today. Does not matter to me when Chevy dumped the Camaro after 2002. The 02 SS should have a huge following today but it doesn't.
04-29-2017, 07:25 PM
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How many vehicles offered 345-350 (actual) or more horsepower in 1998-2002? And how many of those stickered for under $30k? How about under $25k? Ratings varied between 305-345hp depending on trim level, model year and SLP options, but all of them made about 350hp stock - same as C5. There was no better performance value available in the US new car market in 1998-2002 - in fact, few cars made significantly more power stock regardless of MSRP. And as for its closest peer, Mustang GT, LS1 F-body was about 100hp ahead during that time frame. Not sure how anyone could consider ~350hp stock as being "low" for a car from the 1998-'02 era....especially one that stickered as low as $20,470 (base price for a '98 Z28.)
Again it is hard to understand the zero following this Camaro has today when you consider the 90s and early 2000s Mustang following is going strong today. Does not matter to me when Chevy dumped the Camaro after 2002. The 02 SS should have a huge following today but it doesn't.
04-29-2017, 08:18 PM
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