Half pregnant build...Tony Mamo 265’s on a 434” RED sleeved block
11-11-2017, 08:33 PM
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Half pregnant build...Tony Mamo 265’s on a 434” RED sleeved block Been putting this build together for the last 11 months. It’s a non purpose build, meant to make my great running Chevelle a lot quicker. Current engine is an ls2 block, stock crank and rods, with Mahle .010 flat tops. A set of 823 heads up top with an LS3 intake and injectors. Mast electronics, with their SS VVT camshaft...yes VVT. Got the block on a trade, and it needed a sleeve. Had my machinist put a sleeve in it and line hone the block. They balanced my assembly as well. ARP head bolts, main studs, etc. It’s an honest 500 horse engine, and is fun, but is it ever enough? Finished the car in March of 16’ and I’ve put 1500ish miles on it. It’s a blast, and you can check the car out with the link in my sig if you’d like.
On to the current engine build. Your probably wondering about the “half pregnant” title, and I’ll get to that. I had a plan on what I wanted to do with build, and it only got off course once, which is pretty good for me. I bought a used ls2 block off of the classifieds on here. I created it up and sent it to Steve at RED for his Darton dry sleeve installation. Great guy to work with, and he’s still answering my questions 10 months later. In the meanwhile, with the block in Cali, I ordered my rotating assembly. It’s your typical run of the mill Callies 4” forged crank, with their 6.125” Compstar rods. Pistons are Wiseco forged -8cc flattops, in 4.155” sizing. I chose King coated bearings for the mains and rods. While at the machine shop, I had my guy install a set of Katech billet main caps with pins, to help keep things still down there.
I made a phone call to Tony Mamo concerning making a set of GM LS7 heads I had better, and that’s where the course veered a little. Long story short, and a lot of money later, I purchased lots of stuff from Dr. Mamo. Here’s a list of stuff from him...
Mamo Motorsports LS7 heads with Tony’s CNC port program, as well as his nitrous exhaust port option. He set the springs up for the custom solid roller that he spec’ed for me.
MSD Atomic intake, ported and smoothed stealth mod by Tony.
LS7 fuel rail.
NW 102 Tb, in Black.
YT adjustable rockers for his heads.
Manton 3/8” x .095” pushrods.
Isky Redzone solid tie bar lifters with axle oiling option.
ATI balancer underdriven 10%.
ARP balancer bolt.
52 lb. Bosch matched fuel injectors flow 61 lbs. @ 60 psi
Cometic 5 layer mls head gaskets.
Melling oil pump ported by Tony.
ARP head bolts.
Custom ground solid roller camshaft.
So I’m talking camshaft with Tony, and if you’ve ever talked to him on the phone, well let’s just say he talks a lot. He’s constantly throwing out useful information concerning your build, and quite frankly, unless he asks you a question, it’s hard to get a word in edgewise. Nothing wrong with that at all...it’s just the way he is. So we are talking camshaft numbers, and the numbers are creeping. These cams are fairly big for these max effort builds. I spoke up and told Tony that I’d be willing to give up 15 horsepower for more drive ability, and the phone went silent. I thought he hung up on me. There was like this 4-5 seconds of total silence...I don’t think that anyone had ever told Tony that before. He stumbled with numbers and words for a second or two, and said “okay, this is what I’m gonna do.” We settled on a camshaft setup, and finished the phone conversation a couple minutes later. Tony texts me 15 minutes after that, and the text read “your not too hot and not too cold, just on the verge of streetable and very aggressive all at the same time half-pregnant cam is ordered”. I laughed and told him that would be what I title my build thread...so there you have it.
Here’s some pictures...
On to the current engine build. Your probably wondering about the “half pregnant” title, and I’ll get to that. I had a plan on what I wanted to do with build, and it only got off course once, which is pretty good for me. I bought a used ls2 block off of the classifieds on here. I created it up and sent it to Steve at RED for his Darton dry sleeve installation. Great guy to work with, and he’s still answering my questions 10 months later. In the meanwhile, with the block in Cali, I ordered my rotating assembly. It’s your typical run of the mill Callies 4” forged crank, with their 6.125” Compstar rods. Pistons are Wiseco forged -8cc flattops, in 4.155” sizing. I chose King coated bearings for the mains and rods. While at the machine shop, I had my guy install a set of Katech billet main caps with pins, to help keep things still down there.
I made a phone call to Tony Mamo concerning making a set of GM LS7 heads I had better, and that’s where the course veered a little. Long story short, and a lot of money later, I purchased lots of stuff from Dr. Mamo. Here’s a list of stuff from him...
Mamo Motorsports LS7 heads with Tony’s CNC port program, as well as his nitrous exhaust port option. He set the springs up for the custom solid roller that he spec’ed for me.
MSD Atomic intake, ported and smoothed stealth mod by Tony.
LS7 fuel rail.
NW 102 Tb, in Black.
YT adjustable rockers for his heads.
Manton 3/8” x .095” pushrods.
Isky Redzone solid tie bar lifters with axle oiling option.
ATI balancer underdriven 10%.
ARP balancer bolt.
52 lb. Bosch matched fuel injectors flow 61 lbs. @ 60 psi
Cometic 5 layer mls head gaskets.
Melling oil pump ported by Tony.
ARP head bolts.
Custom ground solid roller camshaft.
So I’m talking camshaft with Tony, and if you’ve ever talked to him on the phone, well let’s just say he talks a lot. He’s constantly throwing out useful information concerning your build, and quite frankly, unless he asks you a question, it’s hard to get a word in edgewise. Nothing wrong with that at all...it’s just the way he is. So we are talking camshaft numbers, and the numbers are creeping. These cams are fairly big for these max effort builds. I spoke up and told Tony that I’d be willing to give up 15 horsepower for more drive ability, and the phone went silent. I thought he hung up on me. There was like this 4-5 seconds of total silence...I don’t think that anyone had ever told Tony that before. He stumbled with numbers and words for a second or two, and said “okay, this is what I’m gonna do.” We settled on a camshaft setup, and finished the phone conversation a couple minutes later. Tony texts me 15 minutes after that, and the text read “your not too hot and not too cold, just on the verge of streetable and very aggressive all at the same time half-pregnant cam is ordered”. I laughed and told him that would be what I title my build thread...so there you have it.
Here’s some pictures...
Last edited by Che70velle; 08-04-2019 at 09:08 PM.
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11-11-2017, 09:02 PM
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I’m not a novice builder, but I don’t build engines for a living anymore either. I worked at a shop in the early-mid 90’s that built cup engines, back when teams still farmed out their engine programs. We had a cup record for most consecutive wins, with Harry Gant in September of 91’. He won 4 in a row with our engine, and all the team did to it was change valve springs, and the oil, between races. It was cool, until some guy named Jimmy Johnson came along and did it as well.
Any way, I’m a stickler for cleanliness. I have multiple parts washers in my shop, and one of them sees nothing but new parts. Some of you reading this understand what I’m saying, but most would be surprised how dirty a brand new part is. I spend a lot of time washing parts. I spent more time washing the rings for this engine, than I do washing my Silverado. Parts prep is critical for a max effort build. Take for instance a new set of forged pistons for example. If you’ve ever looked at the edges of them under magnification, you’d see edges that require you, the consumer, to finish. I use 180 grit paper, and gently cover all of the edges of them until the “burs” are gone. Some of these you can feel with your hands, some of them you can’t. Some people don’t bother to do this and install them. Most aren’t even aware of this step. Is it necessary? Probably not. Where do the “burs” end up? In your oil, after they have successfully scratched the skirt coating up on your new set of high dollar pistons.
I’ll be posting a lot of pictures here, so hang in there guys...
Any way, I’m a stickler for cleanliness. I have multiple parts washers in my shop, and one of them sees nothing but new parts. Some of you reading this understand what I’m saying, but most would be surprised how dirty a brand new part is. I spend a lot of time washing parts. I spent more time washing the rings for this engine, than I do washing my Silverado. Parts prep is critical for a max effort build. Take for instance a new set of forged pistons for example. If you’ve ever looked at the edges of them under magnification, you’d see edges that require you, the consumer, to finish. I use 180 grit paper, and gently cover all of the edges of them until the “burs” are gone. Some of these you can feel with your hands, some of them you can’t. Some people don’t bother to do this and install them. Most aren’t even aware of this step. Is it necessary? Probably not. Where do the “burs” end up? In your oil, after they have successfully scratched the skirt coating up on your new set of high dollar pistons.
I’ll be posting a lot of pictures here, so hang in there guys...
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11-11-2017, 09:53 PM
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Here’s a generalized list of dimensions, weights, torque numbers, etc.
Finished deck height after sleeving 9.217”
Rod clearance .0019”
Main clearance .0024”
Thrust clearance .0045” ...manual transmission...
Piston to wall clearance .0035”
Sleeve skirt is .409” into crankcase
Average between rods on journal is .006”
Intake piston to valve .257”
Exhaust piston to valve .246”
Oil pan to pickup .235”
ARP main studs 75 ft. Lbs. inners, 60 ft. Lbs. outers
ARP 2000 rod bolts 75 ft. Lbs.
Valve lash is .003” room temp, intake and exhaust...went to .002” and I like it better...
Hollow intake valve 98 grams
Exhaust valve 95 grams
Valve spring 95 grams
Titanium retainer 11 grams
Keepers 2 grams
ARP head bolts 75 ft. Lbs. and 25 ft. Lbs.
Push rod length intake 8.148”
Push rod length exhaust 8.401”
I did not weigh pushrods...edit...89 grams intake, 90 grams exhaust...
Cometic 5 layer head gasket .056”
Chamber quinch .035”
Static compression ratio 12.42:1
Dynamic compression ratio 10.48:1
Dynamic cranking pressure 223.32 PSI
V/P (volume to pressure index) 241
Combustion chambers 62cc
Top ring gap .020”
Second ring gap .022”
Solid roller camshaft 254/268 @ .050” 72x 72x, with a 1.825 rocker, on a 114lsa...33 degrees of overlap
NGK TR7 plugs @.045”
Texas Drivetrain Performance (Diamond) stage 3 clutch 43 lbs...RIP...
Replaced with an RPS BC2 after about 40 miles.
ARH headers 2” into 3” into x-pipe dumped in front of axle...52 lb Bosch, matched injectors flow 61 lbs. @ 60 lbs.
My block was an ex-NASCAR Whelen series block. It was originally built by Robert Yates Racing (Doug Yates). The deck of this block goes down hill significantly from front to rear. Not sure if this was purposely done to increase compression on rear cylinders, or for some other reason, but I doubt that it was accidental, knowing the type of work that the Yates shop turns out. And I also doubt that Steve at RED caused this, knowing the type of work that he turns out. This is the reason for the head gasket thickness. We had to find a happy medium with the head gaskets, and still achieve the tightest quinch possible. Here’s some pics of the deck with out of the hole, squared piston dimensions...
Finished deck height after sleeving 9.217”
Rod clearance .0019”
Main clearance .0024”
Thrust clearance .0045” ...manual transmission...
Piston to wall clearance .0035”
Sleeve skirt is .409” into crankcase
Average between rods on journal is .006”
Intake piston to valve .257”
Exhaust piston to valve .246”
Oil pan to pickup .235”
ARP main studs 75 ft. Lbs. inners, 60 ft. Lbs. outers
ARP 2000 rod bolts 75 ft. Lbs.
Valve lash is .003” room temp, intake and exhaust...went to .002” and I like it better...
Hollow intake valve 98 grams
Exhaust valve 95 grams
Valve spring 95 grams
Titanium retainer 11 grams
Keepers 2 grams
ARP head bolts 75 ft. Lbs. and 25 ft. Lbs.
Push rod length intake 8.148”
Push rod length exhaust 8.401”
I did not weigh pushrods...edit...89 grams intake, 90 grams exhaust...
Cometic 5 layer head gasket .056”
Chamber quinch .035”
Static compression ratio 12.42:1
Dynamic compression ratio 10.48:1
Dynamic cranking pressure 223.32 PSI
V/P (volume to pressure index) 241
Combustion chambers 62cc
Top ring gap .020”
Second ring gap .022”
Solid roller camshaft 254/268 @ .050” 72x 72x, with a 1.825 rocker, on a 114lsa...33 degrees of overlap
NGK TR7 plugs @.045”
Texas Drivetrain Performance (Diamond) stage 3 clutch 43 lbs...RIP...
Replaced with an RPS BC2 after about 40 miles.
ARH headers 2” into 3” into x-pipe dumped in front of axle...52 lb Bosch, matched injectors flow 61 lbs. @ 60 lbs.
My block was an ex-NASCAR Whelen series block. It was originally built by Robert Yates Racing (Doug Yates). The deck of this block goes down hill significantly from front to rear. Not sure if this was purposely done to increase compression on rear cylinders, or for some other reason, but I doubt that it was accidental, knowing the type of work that the Yates shop turns out. And I also doubt that Steve at RED caused this, knowing the type of work that he turns out. This is the reason for the head gasket thickness. We had to find a happy medium with the head gaskets, and still achieve the tightest quinch possible. Here’s some pics of the deck with out of the hole, squared piston dimensions...
Last edited by Che70velle; 08-04-2019 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Added information...more to come!
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11-11-2017, 10:00 PM
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ModSquad
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Pics..
11-11-2017, 10:04 PM
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Pics...
Trending Topics
11-11-2017, 10:10 PM
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Tony’s artwork...
Last edited by Che70velle; 11-12-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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11-11-2017, 10:22 PM
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More of Tony’s artwork...
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Heysoos223 (02-04-2020)
11-12-2017, 06:14 AM
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So what were the specs on the cam? Or are you keeping that a secret...I too have a Mamo build and am all too familiar with his 'suggestions'. Just wondering how it compares to my build, which is very similar to yours...
11-12-2017, 10:40 AM
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Great start to the thread! Keep it going. You def do not mess around on crappy parts. Good call on the axle oiling option for the lifters.
Got a HO goal in mind or you know what you want so let us just see what it does?
Got a HO goal in mind or you know what you want so let us just see what it does?
11-12-2017, 01:16 PM
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Here’s some pics from the day I assembled the shortblock. You guys like pics, right?
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11-12-2017, 01:20 PM
#15
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A few more...
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11-12-2017, 02:06 PM
#16
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I’m the kind of guy who doesn’t take the easy way out on this stuff. For instance, if there’s a “kit” that can be purchased that is made by a reputable company for a certain modification on a car like mine, well I’ll go ahead and build my own, and change it up some. I like to fabricate. I enjoy building things. Taking stuff apart to see how it operates is how I got my interests in the hobby to start with at a very young age. I took welding classes as a teenager. I enjoy measuring clearances to see how they compare. I build my own rearends, because I find it fun to spend hours setting them up, and I love to use my tools. I’m a tool “freak”. I buy tools that I don’t need, so that I will have an excuse to use it later on a project I never intended doing, but since I have the tools...why not? You get the drift right? I get all scientific on stuff, and do a lot of research on what I’m planning. I’ve read practically every thread on this forum concerning big bore builds, trying to determine what some liked, or disliked. Data speaks volumes to me, so looking at dyno graphs and real numbers matters a lot to me.
So I file my piston rings with an old school hand operated ring tool. It uses the discs that don’t last very long...you guys know the one. I’ve seen the digitized units that you program your numbers into, install your ring, and walk away. That is cool technology, but for me, it cuts out the human interaction perspective of possible error. I like the slow pace personally, and I bought two sets of rings with these pistons, because I knew I’d mess one or two up. I went with .020” and .022” on the rings for this build. My desire for perfection wouldn’t let me get by with a .0202”...or a .0223”. I know it’s close enough, but I threw a lot of rings in the trash that were a little off. Weird, I know...
I also make my own assembly lube. There’s a lot of pretty good products out there in this area, but what fun is that? I got the recipe from the greatest builder I ever knew in the early 90’s and I still use it today. It’s a mixture of STP oil treatment (with ZDDP additives) as a base, conventional 10w30, and Marvel mystery oil. It’s slippery, yet strong. It clings, yet it’s forgiving, and it washes away after startup, allowing your oil to do its job once you have oil pressure.
So I file my piston rings with an old school hand operated ring tool. It uses the discs that don’t last very long...you guys know the one. I’ve seen the digitized units that you program your numbers into, install your ring, and walk away. That is cool technology, but for me, it cuts out the human interaction perspective of possible error. I like the slow pace personally, and I bought two sets of rings with these pistons, because I knew I’d mess one or two up. I went with .020” and .022” on the rings for this build. My desire for perfection wouldn’t let me get by with a .0202”...or a .0223”. I know it’s close enough, but I threw a lot of rings in the trash that were a little off. Weird, I know...
I also make my own assembly lube. There’s a lot of pretty good products out there in this area, but what fun is that? I got the recipe from the greatest builder I ever knew in the early 90’s and I still use it today. It’s a mixture of STP oil treatment (with ZDDP additives) as a base, conventional 10w30, and Marvel mystery oil. It’s slippery, yet strong. It clings, yet it’s forgiving, and it washes away after startup, allowing your oil to do its job once you have oil pressure.
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11-12-2017, 02:16 PM
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I installed pipe plugs on the stand-offs. Yes the valley plate has o-rings to seal these, but I know for sure that pipe plugs won’t fail...and o-rings can. Overkill? Yes, yes it is!
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11-12-2017, 02:34 PM
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11-12-2017, 02:36 PM
#19
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Cam specs are posted. Tell me about your build please!
11-12-2017, 02:37 PM
#20
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