E85 on NA 383 lt1
10-07-2018, 06:05 PM
#1
E85 on NA 383 lt1 I am running 11.1 comp. with 36 lb trickflow injectors and a 255 walbro pump. I also have a forged 383 stroker and I am wondering if my fuel set up can handle E85 and I am also wondering if it is worth it on a NA motor.
Thanks
Thanks
10-07-2018, 10:39 PM
#2
If you are seeking out a higher octane alcohol fuel, I STRONGLY suggest talking to a company called GEVO about their 102 octane Iso-Butanol. You will never have this fuel gunk up since it is not hygroscopic like ethanol, which absorbs moisture and goes through phase separation from gasoline. You can use Iso-Butanol up to 100% and you can use the air-fuel ratio of gasoline without any problems, the fuel ratio for Butanol is 11.2. Lastly, Butanol is not harmful on any component of an engine, even carbureted engines can use it without the problems of gunking they experience with ethanol blend gasoline.
10-09-2018, 07:40 PM
#3
Staging Lane
Fuel system would have modified with E85 compatible components. You will need larger injectors. It takes roughly 60% more E85 compared to gasoline. PCM will also need reprogramming for E85.
10-10-2018, 01:22 AM
#5
If you really have your heart set on this, I got some hits googling E85 compatible racing injectors. I would research everything you need to do to convert your engine and fuel system over to handle the corrosive nature of E85. Also, to get the most out of your application, you are going to definitely need a program tune to adjust your air/fuel ratio for E85. Furthermore, since E85 will have a higher octane level than even Iso-Butanol, you can bump up your compression level a few more points.
10-10-2018, 02:08 AM
#6
TECH Addict
Rubber is the main victim with ethanol, its not nearly as bad as methanol.
ON dirt cars you flush the fuel system after each race weekend so you wont get
the white spooge in the fuel system or get corrosion on the AL parts.
There are additives that are similar to stabil, specifically for Pure Alchohol
The only one I've used it Uplon once the cars I worked on started using it the
fuel system issues went away.
To give a loose idea,, switching a Dwarf Car(1300 CC Air cooled GSXR motor)
from race gas to Meth, required 3x the size fuel cell.
dropped head temp 200 degrees.
ON dirt cars you flush the fuel system after each race weekend so you wont get
the white spooge in the fuel system or get corrosion on the AL parts.
There are additives that are similar to stabil, specifically for Pure Alchohol
The only one I've used it Uplon once the cars I worked on started using it the
fuel system issues went away.
To give a loose idea,, switching a Dwarf Car(1300 CC Air cooled GSXR motor)
from race gas to Meth, required 3x the size fuel cell.
dropped head temp 200 degrees.
10-10-2018, 10:21 AM
#7
Staging Lane
There are calculators but stock injector is 24 lb so 36-40 lbs should work. E85 is a popular alternative to race fuel. The key is to have the complete system compatible. GM would have built " Flex Fuel" vehicles if. E85 was detrimental to the fuel system or engine.
Small engine and marine, can use fiberglass and certain types of plastic for fuel tanks. E85 can act like a solvent, dissolving resins and susceptible. seals.
Small engine and marine, can use fiberglass and certain types of plastic for fuel tanks. E85 can act like a solvent, dissolving resins and susceptible. seals.
Trending Topics
10-11-2018, 01:45 PM
#8
TECH Apprentice
Been running e85 in my neon for 8 years and my Camaro for 3. Haven’t had a issue yet and use Lucas E85 fuel treatment. No aftermarket fuel components other than 42lb racetronix injectors, walbro 255 and a fuel pump rewire. Still on the stock regulator even.
10-11-2018, 02:23 PM
#9
I think this is a bad idea and it will destroy your engine! For any conventional internal combustion engine, the absolute highest level of ethanol you can mix in gasoline is 15%, afterwards you need your fuel system and engine components fortified against the corrosive property of ethanol. Also your air-fuel ratio is going to need to be adjusted for this higher blend of ethanol. Furthermore, 85% ethanol will draw in more moisture resulting in more water in the fuel tank, and likely have a worse phase separation issue than E10 gasoline, so it may not take long for this fuel to go bad and really gunk up your entire system if allowed to sit for awhile.
If you are seeking out a higher octane alcohol fuel, I STRONGLY suggest talking to a company called GEVO about their 102 octane Iso-Butanol. You will never have this fuel gunk up since it is not hygroscopic like ethanol, which absorbs moisture and goes through phase separation from gasoline. You can use Iso-Butanol up to 100% and you can use the air-fuel ratio of gasoline without any problems, the fuel ratio for Butanol is 11.2. Lastly, Butanol is not harmful on any component of an engine, even carbureted engines can use it without the problems of gunking they experience with ethanol blend gasoline.
If you are seeking out a higher octane alcohol fuel, I STRONGLY suggest talking to a company called GEVO about their 102 octane Iso-Butanol. You will never have this fuel gunk up since it is not hygroscopic like ethanol, which absorbs moisture and goes through phase separation from gasoline. You can use Iso-Butanol up to 100% and you can use the air-fuel ratio of gasoline without any problems, the fuel ratio for Butanol is 11.2. Lastly, Butanol is not harmful on any component of an engine, even carbureted engines can use it without the problems of gunking they experience with ethanol blend gasoline.
10-13-2018, 07:30 PM
#10
Iso-Butanol would be the safe bet for me, and it is non-hygroscopic so it is an alcohol fuel that behaves like pure non-ethanol blend gasoline. Even the BTU rating is nearly the same as pure gasoline so you stand to use less pure Iso-Butanol than you would E85 although gasoline will still net a tad more power. Like E85, Iso-Butanol has a higher octane level so you can bump up your compression a tad to compensate for the lack of burning power compared to pure gasoline. I am biased to Iso-Butanol when I am on the bandwagon to have it replace gasoline and for normal N-Butanol to be an additive to both conventional diesel and bio-diesel fuel.
10-13-2018, 08:15 PM
#11
Staging Lane
Isobutanol appears to be several years away from being available to the masses. Just was approved by epa for 16% mix with gasoline. E85 availability does vary by area, but the infrastructure is in place. Can you even buy Isobutanol?
10-14-2018, 02:31 PM
#13
TECH Apprentice
In shouldn’t of mentioned the neon. Apples to oranges bring it has an entire aftermarket fuel system. Camaro on the other hand is a 96’ and only has injectors, fuel pump and a rewire. No issues
10-14-2018, 07:34 PM
#14
The EPA may have approved 16% Butanol with gasoline but you CAN use it up to 100%, which is what I intend to do when I am making the money to justify it. Another thing I forgot to mention, since any alcohol fuel burns cleaner than petroleum based fuel, a cleaner engine will remain more efficient and this will result in better fuel efficiency. So, despite LS1 Tech not being involved in the EcoModding game, for any daily driving guys who want to balance performance with fuel economy, this is something to seriously consider.
Are you referring to me? It is kinda hard to get out more when I am trying to get my degrees in the new career I wish to have. It is all about priorities!
10-14-2018, 08:03 PM
#15
And I held 2 jobs while getting both of my degrees, and still got out. So can you
10-14-2018, 09:20 PM
#16
yes. All of your info,even though it may be technically correct, is completely irrelevant. E85 is a proven performer and has shown gains on both NA and boosted applications. As long as your fuel system has been upgraded and your tune can take advantage of both the octane increase as well as cooled combustion properties, there is more power to be had over 93 octane.
And I held 2 jobs while getting both of my degrees, and still got out. So can you
And I held 2 jobs while getting both of my degrees, and still got out. So can you
What I am adding to our discussion is an alcohol fuel for daily drivers that behaves just like pure non-ethanol blend gasoline yet still it is a superior alcohol fuel with nearly the same burning power as gasoline AND with 102 octane rating which allows you to bump up your compression ratio a tad more and will be something I will explore after I have tested this fuel in my stock engine by that time.
You can push E85 all you want for the racing community but for daily drivers who may want to race their cars as well, or in my case, enjoy autocross some time in the future while still using the car as my daily driver, Iso-Butanol is the way to go! If marine engines have no issues running on this fuel then obviously my 1997 5.7L LT1 won't have problems running on it either, AND, I won't need to modify anything on my car since Iso-Butanol is not corrosive to certain metals and rubber as is Ethanol. The car may benefit more with the proper air-fuel ratio but I can still get away with running it on it's stock air-fuel ratio! I am just saying.
With regards to your college experience, good for you. My experience is my own and I am going about it differently so thank you.
Last edited by Phoenix'97; 10-14-2018 at 09:31 PM.
10-15-2018, 06:43 AM
#17
It is your personal opinion that my "technically correct" information is "irrelevant". Yes, E85 has it's benefits in the racing community, but we have plenty of others who know the horrors of ethanol blend fuel for daily driving and especially for winter driving! Ethanol draws in moisture from the outside air anytime you refuel and this explains why you end up with water in the fuel tank, essentially watering down your gasoline and degrading your fuel and fuel economy assuming phase separation has not already taken place!
What I am adding to our discussion is an alcohol fuel for daily drivers that behaves just like pure non-ethanol blend gasoline yet still it is a superior alcohol fuel with nearly the same burning power as gasoline AND with 102 octane rating which allows you to bump up your compression ratio a tad more and will be something I will explore after I have tested this fuel in my stock engine by that time.
You can push E85 all you want for the racing community but for daily drivers who may want to race their cars as well, or in my case, enjoy autocross some time in the future while still using the car as my daily driver, Iso-Butanol is the way to go! If marine engines have no issues running on this fuel then obviously my 1997 5.7L LT1 won't have problems running on it either, AND, I won't need to modify anything on my car since Iso-Butanol is not corrosive to certain metals and rubber as is Ethanol. The car may benefit more with the proper air-fuel ratio but I can still get away with running it on it's stock air-fuel ratio! I am just saying.
With regards to your college experience, good for you. My experience is my own and I am going about it differently so thank you.
What I am adding to our discussion is an alcohol fuel for daily drivers that behaves just like pure non-ethanol blend gasoline yet still it is a superior alcohol fuel with nearly the same burning power as gasoline AND with 102 octane rating which allows you to bump up your compression ratio a tad more and will be something I will explore after I have tested this fuel in my stock engine by that time.
You can push E85 all you want for the racing community but for daily drivers who may want to race their cars as well, or in my case, enjoy autocross some time in the future while still using the car as my daily driver, Iso-Butanol is the way to go! If marine engines have no issues running on this fuel then obviously my 1997 5.7L LT1 won't have problems running on it either, AND, I won't need to modify anything on my car since Iso-Butanol is not corrosive to certain metals and rubber as is Ethanol. The car may benefit more with the proper air-fuel ratio but I can still get away with running it on it's stock air-fuel ratio! I am just saying.
With regards to your college experience, good for you. My experience is my own and I am going about it differently so thank you.
And I didn't bring up college, you did. So like I said, get out more and don't be so closed minded.
10-15-2018, 08:15 PM
#18
Your post really shows how out of touch with reality you are. E85 is NOT just the "racing community". Many of the high HP street cars have moved to it, regardless of whether its a V8, V6, I4, NA or turbo etc. many of which are daily driven vehicles....and there's no having to "order your fuel". Drive to the pump and fill up.....not to mention they now have flex fuel sensors which sense the % of E in the blend, which means you can run anything from 100% 93 to full E85 on the fly.
As you have stated,
I haven't contacted GEVO yet on how I would go about purchasing their fuel. Yes, I may have to order it or perhaps I could buy it from a Marina if the local Marina is a participant in the Iso-Butanol fuel program. I do expect to pay more than non-ethanol gasoline but that is a personal choice on the quality of fuel I will want my car to burn, knowing all of the advantages that come with Iso-Butanol, those same shared attributes that it would have with E85 yet not needing to be blended with gasoline in any form. For the sake of this discussion, I am just pointing out there is another option and that E85, as I see it, is not as wonderful a fuel as you may make it out to be. I avoid E10 gasoline like the plague for a reason and I am not alone! I fail to see E85 being a winning fuel for the daily driver given it has a serious flaw, that being it is hygroscopic.
