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I know GM says 22lbs for the pressure plate bolts and you shouldnt torque any higher than that because it could cause clutch disengagement issues.
Now i have the ARP replacement PP bolts and arp instructions say to torque to 45ft lbs. Will this cause issues with the bolts torqued to this amount?
Im curious how having the bolts torqued past 22lbs would have any impact on clutch disengagement considering the pressure plate sits flush against the flywheel regardless of bolt torque? I dont get where arp comes up with 45lbs ? I will use blue loctite regardless.
I know for fact if you over torque the PP bolts the clutch won't disengage. Yes it seems like it would not as the feet of the PP sit flush on FW. I guess to much TQ on the PP distorts it keeping to much pressure against the disc.
GM determined that 22 ft lbs, not 25, 26 or 30, etc
Ironically the McLeod Street Twin clutch that uses the same PP has TQ at 35. The FW though has studs vs the beveled shoulder of the GM/ARP bolt
I went with 40 lbs on the arp bolts. I did use arp lube on the underside of the head bolt and blue loctite on the threads. Once i get the trans in i will see if it will disengage the clutch.🤔
SS RRR, this is a forum where you get advice and opinions from many members, not just one. You then base your own decision off of those opinions given. I have recieved many various opinions from different forums. Most opinions say go with what arp recommends. There seems to be no exact answer to the PP bolt question. General census is go with what arp has suggested to get the proper stretch out of the bolts.
That being said, if i ever get my trans lined up and bolted in, i will then see if my clutch disengages properly and report back for information towards another member in my same arp vs gm bolt problem.
Do you know if that torque spec is for a push or pull style clutch? The LT1 is a pull style. The LS1 T56 is a push style. I don't know for sure, but torque for PP bolts between the two may differ. My guess as to why GM has that spec on those bolts is because if they are over torqued the pressure plate will force the clutch and PP to make contact onto the flywheel and you will have drag issues. Even if it's hardly noticeable, if there's power going through the trans while you're trying to shift it will **** your syncros and you'll have an expensive problem.
Every clutch I've ever installed on my engine has always used stock torque spec on flywheel and PP with no loc-tite. This latest Spec clutch I have on now has been on the car for 7 years.
The tensile strength of the ARP bolt material is likely higher than what GM needed or spec when they had their LT1/4 PP bolts made. Nothing wrong with using a bolt capable of a higher TQ value in terms of tightening. That value however is not the "application" value of a particular item specific TQ like the LT1 PP for example. Valeo, the manufacturer of the original LT1/4 clutch determined what TQ value and what kind of specific (specialty) fastener needed to be. In the case of the PP TQ it was 22 ft lbs. Not 20, 25, 30 or 40. They had clear engineering to make the determination on what the TQ needed to be.
The aluminum casting of the LT1 PP will flex if put under enough pressure, especially from a fastener capable of exerting this kind of pressure from the TQ applied. Nothing wrong with using a fastener capable of higher TQ value applied to it but that does not supersede what the TQ "holding" value Valeo, thus GM, specs to secure a particular part In this case a softer metal, aluminum.
I would suggest you re-torque those ARP bolts back to 22 ft lbs
You can roll the dice if you want. Its a big job to drop tranny and bellhousing to have to re-torque them if you find you have disengagement issues. Not sure why you are ? what a vehicle specific TQ value is vs what a aftermarket company rates its TQ value based on the metal strength (tensile) of its particular product, not its specific use intent.
These PP bolts are not TTY or "stretch" bolts. You are hung up on what the specific ARP bolts max tensile strength is....not what the item specific TQ it is used for is
I thought arp designs the bolts for the specific intent of replacing factory bolts. Like when you use there head bolts. You are supp to use there torque suggestion after applying the arp lube under the head bolt. I will give them a call today.
The arp bolts are designed for 93-97 LT1s. Debating about pulling off the bellhousing and loosening them from 40 to 22lbs.
Originally Posted by 350 groundpounder
I thought arp designs the bolts for the specific intent of replacing factory bolts. Like when you use there head bolts. You are supp to use there torque suggestion after applying the arp lube under the head bolt. I will give them a call today.
If it were my car, I would go 22 ft lbs.
While talking to whoever at ARP...also ask them if you follow their recommended TQ value for the LT1 clutch will he come over to your house and loosen them if the clutch drags or does not even disengage at all. Advise him the PP is made of aluminum not steel and the published TQ spec by GM is 22 ft lbs. He may have a very good "metallurgy" reason why to use more TQ but ask why that applies to the LT1 application. If you follow his advice and all turns out well, report back.
I got careless once and used a impact gun set on low thinking it would be just fine. Heck I had put in several clutches before on other SBC cars and just tightened the F out of the PP bolts (old school B&B 3 finger steel PP clutches) with a ratchet wrench so wtf would published TQ value mean. After getting everything buttoned up I fired up the car, pushed in the clutch and no disengagement period. Needless to say I had to pull tranny and bellhousing out, along with DS, x-member and all the other crap one needs to do to drop tranny and used a TQ wrench to loosen the bolts to see what TQ they were tightened. 45 ft lbs
So do what you want. I, and others, have told you what and why we would go 22 ft lbs
Good news is i have to loosen the PP bolts because the POS plastic clutch allignment tool isnt accurate and i had to buy the ram metal allignment tool for $55. So i can re-torque the bolts to 22 ft lbs now instead of 40 lbs. With this good allignment tool hopefully the t56 will go in that last inch into the pilot bearing!
Should i use blue or red loctite since 22lbs doesnt seem like a lot of force to hold the bolts in?
You can use blue loc-tite so it will be easier to remove them. Red works but will take more wrench effort to remove the bolts on the next clutch swap. FWIW I have never used any loc tite on the PP bolts at 22 ft lbs TQ but it would not hurt anything if you did. I have a McLeod Street Twin now and they said, in capitol letters, not to use any loc-tite FWIW on their clutch
I have always used the plastic tool but that metal one looks nice. I suggest you hold the tool straight in with one hand and tighten a few of the PP bolts just enough to hold the clutch in place. Then go and tighten the PP bolts to TQ in a star pattern
Just letting the clutch just "hang" on it (plastic or metal tool) I have found that results in input shaft alignment issues AT the pilot bearing
The reason the tranny didn't go in the final 1/2+ inch is the input shaft tip was just catching the edge of the pilot bearing. Using bolts to wrench the tranny in will just FU the pilot bearing if you do that
You are not the first to experience tranny alignment issues
You can use blue loc-tite so it will be easier to remove them. Red works but will take more wrench effort to remove the bolts on the next clutch swap. FWIW I have never used any loc tite on the PP bolts at 22 ft lbs TQ but it would not hurt anything if you did. I have a McLeod Street Twin now and they said, in capitol letters, not to use any loc-tite FWIW on their clutch
I have always used the plastic tool but that metal one looks nice. I suggest you hold the tool straight in with one hand and tighten a few of the PP bolts just enough to hold the clutch in place. Then go and tighten the PP bolts to TQ in a star pattern
Just letting the clutch just "hang" on it (plastic or metal tool) I have found that results in input shaft alignment issues AT the pilot bearing
The reason the tranny didn't go in the final 1/2+ inch is the input shaft tip was just catching the edge of the pilot bearing. Using bolts to wrench the tranny in will just FU the pilot bearing if you do that
You are not the first to experience tranny alignment issues
This! Push the alignment tool straight into the crankshaft while cinching down the PP. It does the trick almost every time.
RAM clutch allignment tool is awesome, trans slid right in after using this tool.
I dropped the pressure plate bolt torque from 40lbs to 22lbs. Clutch disengages like it should and the pedal feels good. Just need to get it out on the road and break it in.
Good news is i have to loosen the PP bolts because the POS plastic clutch allignment tool isnt accurate and i had to buy the ram metal allignment tool for $55.
LOL.. That's nothing more than an input shaft with their logo. Probably cost them a dollar to make. Plastic alignment tools work. You just have to ensure the alignment is square prior to tightening the PP bolts.
Lol, My plastic allignment tool was junk period. Mine was not precise at all. Fitment was loose around the splines, and the end of the plastic tool wasnt a firm fitment inside the pilot bearing.
Plenty of sources out there that confirm this.
Can you line up your clutch with a plastic junk tool? Sure you can if you have experience with clutch installs and have a good eye, or just get lucky.
The RAM allignment tool fits MUCH firmer into the clutch and into the pilot bearing making the allignment so much easier. Transmission slid into place first try! For you lt1 guys out there that want minimal trouble alligning your t56/clutch up i highly suggest it.
A used t56 input shaft would be perfect if i had one laying around, i didn't. I wish i would of spent the $55 for the RAM allignment tool to begin with, would of saved me so much hassle.
I believe, but not 100% sure the RAM tool is a precision in house made product and not a $1 used input shaft from a t56. Steep price for the tool but it did the job for me. This is one tool im hanging on to.
Last edited by 350 groundpounder; 12-13-2018 at 09:06 AM.
Ive done a few of mine with the plastic tool, but you have to basically hold it in the center while trying to tighten the pp bolts. The ram tool looks like it works a lot better.
10-20-2018, 06:21 PM
ARP pressure plate bolt torque? 
