head studs for dummies?
#1
head studs for dummies?
never worked with head studs before, im parting out a turbo motor cause im changing directions and this one has arp head studs.....pretended they were bolts and cracked all the small ones loose....no issues felt like 25 foot pounds. moved onto the big ones, and i tried loosening 3 up and they are tight. i cracked 3 loose and they seemed like they were about 110 foot pounds or so, and the stud portion spins when i loosen the nut so the stud is coming with it....is this normal? i noticed a hex head in the stud but that is most likely for tightening.
#2
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
never worked with head studs before, im parting out a turbo motor cause im changing directions and this one has arp head studs.....pretended they were bolts and cracked all the small ones loose....no issues felt like 25 foot pounds. moved onto the big ones, and i tried loosening 3 up and they are tight. i cracked 3 loose and they seemed like they were about 110 foot pounds or so, and the stud portion spins when i loosen the nut so the stud is coming with it....is this normal? i noticed a hex head in the stud but that is most likely for tightening.
#4
TECH Senior Member
Pretty much. Once they are all loose the nuts should just come right off.
#6
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
I put a graph on my build thread. Mamo goodness. My wideband wasn’t working on dyno day (I had no idea it wasn’t working until I got there) so Mike used a makeshift wideband connected to his dyno computer, and stuck it in one of my turndowns. We did 5 pulls, and I agreed to get my wideband working before we continued. It’s up and going now, but the weather isn’t going to cooperate. I plan on seeing much more power once we can actually tune with a real wideband. Wouldn’t be surprised to see 640-650.
#7
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (40)
Yes crack them loose like normal, if the stud comes out with the nut that's perfectly fine.
When you install them ONLY HAND TIGHTEN THEM like Che70velle said. Also get some real good moly lube to apply to the washers and nuts for proper tq specs.
The ARP's in case you're wondering are reusable too.
When you install them ONLY HAND TIGHTEN THEM like Che70velle said. Also get some real good moly lube to apply to the washers and nuts for proper tq specs.
The ARP's in case you're wondering are reusable too.
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#10
so school me on these a little more since i will probably reuse them. on most of the larger studs, i had to use a lot of force with an allen wrench to get them loose (only have metric allen sockets and they were 5/16) and i was flexing the wrench a lot before the studs broke loose.....is this normal as well?
if the instructions are to hand tighten them until they bottom out, are the bottoming out in the bottom of the hole so tip of stud is touching the block? or do they bottom out on the threads and the tip never touches the block?
if the instructions are to hand tighten them until they bottom out, are the bottoming out in the bottom of the hole so tip of stud is touching the block? or do they bottom out on the threads and the tip never touches the block?
#12
TECH Senior Member
I agree since even torqueing the nuts on will tend to turn the studs further in the holes, not the reverse. Threadlocker is a wasted effort there.
#14
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (4)
ARP FAQ
Do I need to re-torque my head bolts or studs?If you follow the ARP installation instructions, there should be no need to do a re-torque. However, it may be necessary under certain circumstances if the gasket manufacturer’s instructions require it, particularly if a fire ring has been installed. ARP recommends not doing a re-torque on a hot engine.Do I need lube on my bolts or studs?We recommend using ARP Ultra-Torque lube to ensure an even, accurate clamp load and to prevent thread galling. This is particularly important for stainless steel fasteners. The lube should be used under the head of the bolt or the bearing surface of the nut and on the threads, unless a thread sealer is used.Can I use Loctite or any thread locker instead of ARP Ultra-Torque assembly lube?Yes, you can. Some engine builders use blue Loctite on the stud end that goes into the block. Do NOT use Loctite on the nuts for the head studs or main studs. Always ensure that the threads are clean prior to applying any lube. When using Loctite, make sure you assemble the parts before the Loctite cures. You can use Loctite instead of ARP Ultra-Torque, but do not use them together.Do I have to use Ultra-Torque?We spent two years developing ARP Ultra-Torque and we have come up with what we believe to be the ultimate fastener lubricant. All of our torque values are based on using Ultra-Torque. We do not provide torque values for use with any other fastener assembly lubricant (such as motor oil, moly lube, etc.) Use these other lubes at your own risk, as their use may lead to a part or engine failure, for which we are not responsible.Do the threads of the bolts or studs going into the block need lube?Yes. On blind holes use a small amount of ARP Ultra-Torque lube on those threads. Additionally, if the studs protrude into a water jacket, you will need to clean the threads in the block to remove all coolant and oil residue. Apply a liberal amount of ARP thread sealer or a high temperature thread sealer.Are ARP bolts and studs re-usable?Yes. As long as the fasteners have been installed and torqued correctly, and show no visible signs of damage, they can be re-used. If they show any signs of thread galling or corrosion, they should be replaced. In the case of rod bolts, if any of them have taken a permanent set and have stretched by .001” or longer, you should replace them immediately. See page 29 in the catalog for more detailed information on this critical measurement.Do I install my studs into the block first?After test fitting the studs in the block, it is generally easier to remove the studs, put the head gasket and head on the block and install the studs. This will reduce the possibility of damaging the upper threads of the stud and scraping the cylinder mounting holes. If the block has no alignment dowel pins, you can use the stud to align the gasket and head.Does the chamfer on the inside diameter of the washer go up or down?The chamfered side of the washer goes up, towards the head of the bolt. The chamfer is there to create clearance for the radius between the bolt shank and the bolt head.Do the head studs only go in hand, or finger tight?Yes, cylinder head studs are installed only hand tight. Other than the use of an allen wrench on the hex broached into the end of the stud (to ease installation, not to apply torque), use no tools to seat them in the block. However, it is extremely important to ensure that the studs are fully bottomed out in the hole in the block and not hung up on damaged or corroded threads in the block preventing the stud from being fully seated. This is often indicated when the stud threads extend past the deck surface.I have heard that some people have had trouble with newly installed cylinder head studs leaking water. How do I make sure I don’t have the same problem with my new ARP head studs?Prior to installing your new head studs, it is very important that you have clean threads on both the block and the studs. First, clean up all the threads in the block with a thread-cleaning chaser, NOT a regular tap. Thread chasers are designed so that they do not remove material from threads but merely remove debris and corrosion. Make sure you go all the way to the end of the threads in the bottom of the hole. Then clean out all the holes in the block with brake or carburetor cleaner to remove all the debris. Make sure the threads on the new studs are clean. Use a liberal amount of ARP thread sealer, high temp silicone or Loctite to ensure that there will be no air pockets that can cause leaks. Then follow the ARP instructions for installing the fasteners.Are ARP’s torque recommendations the same as the vehicle manufacturer’s specifications?Sometimes ARP will recommend using torque specifications that are different than the manufacturer, but not always. Our kits are engineered for specific applications, factoring in the necessary clamp load we’re trying to achieve, material type, block or head material, etc. To achieve our target clamp load, it may be necessary to use a different torque figure than what the factory calls out.
#15
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One of the advantages of studs is you don't get coolant all down in the bolt holes. If you can, put the studs back in without the nuts on them prior to removing the heads to keep the holes clean.
#17
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (40)
They bottom out in the hole but sometimes they are hard to turn all the way down by hand so if that's the case I use an allen wrench and run them all the way down then I back off a little and lightly tighten them till I feel the bottom and I repeat that a couple of times each stud making sure they are all the way down but not tightened down.
Way back in the day some guys would put bb's in the bottom of the hole in honda motors to keep them from bottoming all the way out, but I don't really see it being much of an issue if they are all the way in the bottom of the hole so I never did that. Just don't crank on them when they hit bottom.
Way back in the day some guys would put bb's in the bottom of the hole in honda motors to keep them from bottoming all the way out, but I don't really see it being much of an issue if they are all the way in the bottom of the hole so I never did that. Just don't crank on them when they hit bottom.
#18
TECH Senior Member
The BB idea sounded interesting, but use a lead shot ball. That way when it feels snug, you know you're there.
Last edited by G Atsma; 12-14-2018 at 04:42 PM.
#20
my question tho which im sure i can find from google, is
1)expansion, if its bottomed all the way out wouldn't heat expansion make it wanna crack at the bottom? factory head bolts dont bottom out to the best of my knowledge
2)if you bottom them out, how does the stud not turn more and over tighten itself when cranking on the nut?
1)expansion, if its bottomed all the way out wouldn't heat expansion make it wanna crack at the bottom? factory head bolts dont bottom out to the best of my knowledge
2)if you bottom them out, how does the stud not turn more and over tighten itself when cranking on the nut?