Excited to spray!
12-10-2018, 09:46 PM
#1
Excited to spray! I've built and tuned a few turbo cars running up to 30psi. All small quick spooling turbo setups making over 400whp. Now it's time to play with some spray.
Car. Stock 2004 CTS-V LS6 w/76k miles
Setup I plan to run:
Nitrous Outlet wet plate kit w/150 shot
Nitrous Outlet 4an purge kit
Racetronix 255lph FP
Winmax Window switch
Monster stage 3 single plate clutch
Magnaflow catback Hptuner Wbo2 kit
Who
Hptuner
Going to lock out 1st gear and activate at 3k rpms. Pull 6* timing and shoot for high 11 afrs. Then pray I don't bomb the rear diff.
Car. Stock 2004 CTS-V LS6 w/76k miles
Setup I plan to run:
Nitrous Outlet wet plate kit w/150 shot
Nitrous Outlet 4an purge kit
Racetronix 255lph FP
Winmax Window switch
Monster stage 3 single plate clutch
Magnaflow catback Hptuner Wbo2 kit
Who
Hptuner
Going to lock out 1st gear and activate at 3k rpms. Pull 6* timing and shoot for high 11 afrs. Then pray I don't bomb the rear diff.
12-12-2018, 11:25 AM
#4
12-13-2018, 03:54 PM
#6
In my experience very little power is achieved by slightly running a leaner tune. I am going to shoot for low 12s if the motor does not knock in the high 11s. But again I'm used to running e85, 24* timing and 30psi of boost. Rich was always a bit safer.
Last edited by JayRolla; 12-13-2018 at 05:02 PM.
12-13-2018, 06:50 PM
#7
Run rich on spray....then add too much timing...let me know what happens
Run safe to lean on spray add too much timing...let me know what happens.
I'm not bashing you, don't take it that way. It just ******* amazes me how the internet says, run it rich...run it rich...it's safe.
That's bullshit. But I guess "how rich" you are running it should be taken into consideration.
You are going to make the best/safe power on the dope as you are N/A.
What most people don't realize is ignorance on the internet drives business.
That's why everyone runs dual springs. That's why everyone is jumping on the bushed rocker arm upgrade.
******* sheep.
Run safe to lean on spray add too much timing...let me know what happens.
I'm not bashing you, don't take it that way. It just ******* amazes me how the internet says, run it rich...run it rich...it's safe.
That's bullshit. But I guess "how rich" you are running it should be taken into consideration.
You are going to make the best/safe power on the dope as you are N/A.
What most people don't realize is ignorance on the internet drives business.
That's why everyone runs dual springs. That's why everyone is jumping on the bushed rocker arm upgrade.
******* sheep.
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12-13-2018, 09:02 PM
#8
I've been using nitrous for over 20 years. You'll make the most power and be the safest in the 12.x:1 air fuel ratio range with nitrous, and some nitrous cars even run fastest in the low 13.x:1 air fuel ratio range. Richer than optimum is not safe on a nitrous motor, quite the opposite. Running rich on a nitrous motor breaks ring lands.
Too much ignition timing (not running lean) is what most commonly kills a nitrous motor and also makes less power. You gain nothing from running too much ignition timing.
Too much ignition timing (not running lean) is what most commonly kills a nitrous motor and also makes less power. You gain nothing from running too much ignition timing.
12-13-2018, 09:13 PM
#9
Run rich on spray....then add too much timing...let me know what happens
Run safe to lean on spray add too much timing...let me know what happens.
I'm not bashing you, don't take it that way. It just ******* amazes me how the internet says, run it rich...run it rich...it's safe.
That's bullshit. But I guess "how rich" you are running it should be taken into consideration.
You are going to make the best/safe power on the dope as you are N/A.
What most people don't realize is ignorance on the internet drives business.
That's why everyone runs dual springs. That's why everyone is jumping on the bushed rocker arm upgrade.
******* sheep.
Run safe to lean on spray add too much timing...let me know what happens.
I'm not bashing you, don't take it that way. It just ******* amazes me how the internet says, run it rich...run it rich...it's safe.
That's bullshit. But I guess "how rich" you are running it should be taken into consideration.
You are going to make the best/safe power on the dope as you are N/A.
What most people don't realize is ignorance on the internet drives business.
That's why everyone runs dual springs. That's why everyone is jumping on the bushed rocker arm upgrade.
******* sheep.
I am used to turbo cars. The 1st gen DSM fuel map stock runs 9.8:1 afr and super aggressive 28* timing. I will definitely research and make my best judgement from what I have read and experienced in the past. My general rule was to run a bit rich. Pull lots of timing and lean till you see knock. Never lost a motor that way.
12-13-2018, 09:15 PM
#10
I've been using nitrous for over 20 years. You'll make the most power and be the safest in the 12.x:1 air fuel ratio range with nitrous, and some nitrous cars even run fastest in the low 13.x:1 air fuel ratio range. Richer than optimum is not safe on a nitrous motor, quite the opposite. Running rich on a nitrous motor breaks ring lands.
Too much ignition timing (not running lean) is what most commonly kills a nitrous motor and also makes less power. You gain nothing from running too much ignition timing.
Too much ignition timing (not running lean) is what most commonly kills a nitrous motor and also makes less power. You gain nothing from running too much ignition timing.
12-13-2018, 09:26 PM
#11
I've been using nitrous for over 20 years. You'll make the most power and be the safest in the 12.x:1 air fuel ratio range with nitrous, and some nitrous cars even run fastest in the low 13.x:1 air fuel ratio range. Richer than optimum is not safe on a nitrous motor, quite the opposite. Running rich on a nitrous motor breaks ring lands.
Too much ignition timing (not running lean) is what most commonly kills a nitrous motor and also makes less power. You gain nothing from running too much ignition timing.
Too much ignition timing (not running lean) is what most commonly kills a nitrous motor and also makes less power. You gain nothing from running too much ignition timing.
you Sir win the internet today. You are 100% right, all day.
Running rich...too much fuel...add too much timing. That's what melts ringlands and pistons.
12-14-2018, 08:10 AM
#13
DO NOT TUNE NITROUS IGNITION TIMING ON THE DYNO. The dyno won't load your car the same way the street or track will. Pull seven or eight degrees and leave it there. Ultimately, you'll need to tune the ignition timing by reading your plugs and watching your trap speeds.
Use a fresh set(s) of NGK BR7EF plugs gapped to .030
Post your dyno sheet when you're done.
12-14-2018, 10:41 AM
#14
In reality, you don't get to pick what AF ratio you start at. You're going to jet it with whatever jets you have until you land in the 12.x range, where ever that might be. Let's assume that lands you at 12.2:1 according to your dyno guys wide band.......do a pull then go to the next smaller fuel jet to see where that puts you. If you have jets that will land you in the upper 12.x:1 range, that will more than likely make the most power.
DO NOT TUNE NITROUS IGNITION TIMING ON THE DYNO. The dyno won't load your car the same way the street or track will. Pull seven or eight degrees and leave it there. Ultimately, you'll need to tune the ignition timing by reading your plugs and watching your trap speeds.
Use a fresh set(s) of NGK BR7EF plugs gapped to .030
Post your dyno sheet when you're done.
DO NOT TUNE NITROUS IGNITION TIMING ON THE DYNO. The dyno won't load your car the same way the street or track will. Pull seven or eight degrees and leave it there. Ultimately, you'll need to tune the ignition timing by reading your plugs and watching your trap speeds.
Use a fresh set(s) of NGK BR7EF plugs gapped to .030
Post your dyno sheet when you're done.
I also am installing my own wbo2 in my exhaust as that's the only way I ever tuned since I burned a valve when i was 16. Been tuning turbo cars for about 18 years.
Also the dyno I usually go to is load bearing and puts a load on the wheels but either way I'm going to pull 8* as you mentioned and most likely just leave that there.
Thanks again. I'm a nitrous newb and any info is very welcomed. Us turbo guys mainly would use a 50 shot to spool a big turbo pre launch when running an auto. That's all I know about.
Last edited by JayRolla; 12-14-2018 at 11:10 AM.
12-14-2018, 01:04 PM
#15
You only need to use HP Tuners to pull timing while you're on the nitrous by using extra resistance switched into the IAT circuit while your nitrous is armed and activated. (assuming you are not using a stand alone ignition retard box like an LNC-2000).
12-14-2018, 01:24 PM
#16
I would only recommend using the jets (fuel and nitrous jets) to adjust where your air fuel ratio ends up at while you're actually on the nitrous (unless you're running it dry). If you're running a plate or a single nozzle type wet set up, just buy every jet size within the range that you're tuning. You only need singles (not sets of 8 like a direct port) so it's very cost effective and simple to tune that way.
You only need to use HP Tuners to pull timing while you're on the nitrous by using extra resistance switched into the IAT circuit while your nitrous is armed and activated. (assuming you are not using a stand alone ignition retard box like an LNC-2000).
You only need to use HP Tuners to pull timing while you're on the nitrous by using extra resistance switched into the IAT circuit while your nitrous is armed and activated. (assuming you are not using a stand alone ignition retard box like an LNC-2000).
I really appreciate the responses. Thanks again.
12-14-2018, 01:30 PM
#17
8 degrees pulled is a good starting point. You'll need to learn to read plugs to dial in your ignition timing correctly. Make some passes at the track, figure out what your trap speed is and take a look at your plugs. If the timing mark on your ground strap hasn't made it into the bend then add 1 degree and run it again with a fresh set of plugs and repeat. Check the plugs......where did your timing mark end up? Safe is less than half way through the bend. If your trap speed increased, add a degree and repeat the process. If your trap speed didn't increase, then pull a degree back out and leave it there. Your goal is the highest trap speed with the least amount of total timing.
12-14-2018, 01:44 PM
#18
8 degrees pulled is a good starting point. You'll need to learn to read plugs to dial in your ignition timing correctly. Make some passes at the track, figure out what your trap speed is and take a look at your plugs. If the timing mark on your ground strap hasn't made it into the bend then add 1 degree and run it again with a fresh set of plugs and repeat. Check the plugs......where did your timing mark end up? Safe is less than half way through the bend. If your trap speed increased, add a degree and repeat the process. If your trap speed didn't increase, then pull a degree back out and leave it there. Your goal is the highest trap speed with the least amount of total timing.
12-15-2018, 10:47 AM
#19
Awesome!! Thanks for all the help. I usually tuned for max brake tq on the dyno but your saying its safer to tune for max trap speed. Sounds way more fun that way anyways. Haha. I am planning on really researching on reading plugs also before I start. Thanks again as you have answered most my questions that i would normally research. This makes it much easier thanks to you.
Final note, I highly recommend you use an LNC-2000 to pull ignition timing unless you are very good with electronics. While I've seen a lot of good advice on how to wire up a "timing retard box", I've also seen a lot of bad advice. It's just not worth the risk if you don't have an intimate knowledge of electronics. Even if you get the circuit correct, a problem with automotive electronics is that they are exposed to extremes of temperature as well as the elements. A circuit working perfectly today may not work 8 months from now if you haven't taken these issues into account.
12-15-2018, 12:30 PM
#20
No problem.
Final note, I highly recommend you use an LNC-2000 to pull ignition timing unless you are very good with electronics. While I've seen a lot of good advice on how to wire up a "timing retard box", I've also seen a lot of bad advice. It's just not worth the risk if you don't have an intimate knowledge of electronics. Even if you get the circuit correct, a problem with automotive electronics is that they are exposed to extremes of temperature as well as the elements. A circuit working perfectly today may not work 8 months from now if you haven't taken these issues into account.
Final note, I highly recommend you use an LNC-2000 to pull ignition timing unless you are very good with electronics. While I've seen a lot of good advice on how to wire up a "timing retard box", I've also seen a lot of bad advice. It's just not worth the risk if you don't have an intimate knowledge of electronics. Even if you get the circuit correct, a problem with automotive electronics is that they are exposed to extremes of temperature as well as the elements. A circuit working perfectly today may not work 8 months from now if you haven't taken these issues into account.
I feel like I will be taking a step back in tech running jets to tune, nitrous for power and then a timing retard device instead of full ECU reflash that I am used too. But I might do as you say and just go the easy safest route. I do drive this Caddy as my DD and would like it to last a little bit.
Thanks again!