_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

1998 LS1
231/234 .640/.590 112 LSA Cam
TKO 600
Stock 28lb injectors
Holley Terminator X
Idle set to 1200rpm

Hooked up the Terminator X, and started instantly. Smoked pretty bad at first. Thought it was from the oil in the cylinders from a head swap. Noticed the AFRs are high 10s, low 11s. Pulled plugs after just a few mins of idle, and they are black with soot, not wet like oil so id assume its from the gas, not an oil issue? IAC seems to be maxing out, so i kept increasing the idle screw and relearning the TPS. But now the throttle screw is as far out as id feel comfortable without it falling out, and the IAC is still in the 70%-80%. Id like to let it idle longer to get the Self-Learn to fix it, but it smokes so bad i cant stand it even with all the garage doors and windows open. ( I dont have suspension back on the car yet so i cant roll it out.)

Ill swap the IAC with another used one, but it didn't help when i did that before. The injectors are stock 28lb injectors that are not in Holley's list of injectors, so i used another GM PN that is on the list, and also 28lbs.

Ideas? Does this sound more mechanical than tuning related?

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

It could be mechanical or tune related.

Did you configure the System ICF correctly? Is the actual fuel system pressure set correctly? What does the target AFR ratio table look like? What are the cold temp modifiers? Did you run it until it got hot? Are you tuning with laptop or just the handheld?

Andrew

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

I went through the start up config, and have done the TPS learn a few times for the issue above, Fuel is set to 60psi, with a corvette regulator. Im only using handheld for now, as i don't have the cable yet. I haven't messed with any parameters after the startup config other than idle speed. To get the tables do i need a cable? I have a hard time figuring out where tables are on the handheld, is there a good PDF or Video with in depth handheld navigation? I haven't found much searching.

Edit: I have not gotten it into self-learn mode because the smoke gets so bad and i dont have all my suspension parts to roll it out of the garage yet.

Thanks,
Garrett

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Shoot me a PM or find me on IG@projectgattago

lemming104

I wouldn't trust that data to be correct. Unless they are alternate PNs for the same injector design, you do not have any guarantee that two different injector types have the same offset, even if they have the same total flow capacity. If one injector is an EV1 style and the other is EV6/USCAR, it is pretty likely that they have different characteristics. This could affect fueling at shorter pulsewidths quite a bit. I realize that you are just trying to get the car running for now, but it is pretty important to ensure that this data is accurate or you are going to have further tuning issues.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

I agree with this 100%

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

So the injectors I have are 12554271, stock 98 ls1 injectors afaik. Surprised me that it's not a pre set option in the Holley software. So as far as I can tell I need a computer cable to input my injectors?

I believe I figured out why it tries to be so rich at idle. Its commanding the WOT afr setting. I don't know why... but when I change wit afr the commanded perfectly matched it and I can idle at 14.7.

Also another question there's no where to input your map pn on the handheld correct?

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Which MAP sensor are you using? If you selected the internal one and don't have have a vacuum hose going to it....bingo!
The setup wizard asks what MAP sensor you are using.
Andrew

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

I never got prompted to input a map sensor pn. Re-reading the instructions it looks like the only pre loaded map sensor is a 2.5bar GM. So the stock sensor can only be added in the software... again requiring a cord. I'm getting less and less impressed with this handheld software.

Why would they not have stock injectors OR stock map sensors pre loaded? I figured this would be much more plug and play for simple swaps... /rant not really directed at anyone to answer.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

There was definitely a prompt for selecting a MAP sensor including the internal sensor. I would cross reference the injector PN that you have...GM listed several PN for the same injectors.

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

Just re did the wizard and there is not if you pick NA.

"If you selected Turbo or Supercharger in the previous step, select the appropriate MAP
sensor
Tip: Terminator X base calibrations require using the GM (or parts store equivalent) 2.5 bar MAP
sensor shown here. Failure to do so may cause severe engine damage.
Tip: MAP sensors other than the 2.5 bar GM may be configured via Terminator X software."

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

Hooked up a temporary map line from the ecu to intake. Commands the 14.7 now... thanks everyone. Guess I need to read paper instructions better.

Still think it's silly that I need to buy a separate cable to use a stock map sensor. Yet there's a 2.5bar pre loaded.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

I would read those instruction, cover to cover three times.

Are you sure you have the latest firmware loaded? I have installed one of these and we didn't have these issues. We selected the internal MAP sensor and off we went. We even had the same issue initially (forgetting to hook up the vacuum line to the ECU... ran rich, just like yours.)

Check for updates on the Holley support page.

Andrew

Haggar

If I remember correctly, my installed (NA) didn't ask about the MAP sensor, either. LOL, I have my OEM one plugged in, as well as a vacuum line to the port on the ECU, I'm actually not 100% sure which its using (assuming the internal one).

You don't *need* the laptop cable (I *think*), unless you want to do live tuning. You can use the handheld to save your tune (your GCF Global Config file) to the SD Card, and then you can put that into your laptop and see/modify everything. Then you save it back to the card and load it to the ECU through the handheld.

lemming104

I think the reason they do that with the wizard is that, if you are NA, they expect you to use the MAP sensor built into the ECU itself. The presence of that sensor is supposed to be one of the selling points of the system (although I'm not really sure why, since all of the LS platform harnesses Holley sells have provisions for the appropriate GM MAP sensors, and it's not like they are expensive or hard to find).

I have mixed feelings about the handheld. The wizard is a nice way to get started, and it is much more user-friendly than trying to create a new file from scratch in the Windows software. However, I just cannot imagine doing any serious tuning with it, and I switched to the CAN-to-USB cable right after I generated the base tune.

I've driven about 1000 miles on my X MAX system so far, and still really like it overall. It has some quirks, but I think it is a nice middle ground between HP Tuners / EFILive and a full-blown Dominator EFI setup.

If you end up tuning with a laptop, let me know if you want to double-check the injector constants. I also have HP Tuners, so I can extract the relevant data out of a stock F-body tune or something. It is possible that they are close enough already, but it never hurts to make sure.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

I would highly encourage double checking the injector data and also getting the CAN to USB cable. If you're not tuning "live" you're missing out on of the the biggest benefits of the system vs. OEM computers.

Andrew

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

Yeah I plan on ordering the cable and doing live tuning. I also have hptuners with the stock injector data but thank you.

I just feel like it wouldn't take much for them to give stock ls1 injectors and map sensor as an option in the handheld for people who want the simplicity of only the handheld.

Also I feel like the instructions leave some to be desired. I mean look at the confusion of some people think you can choose a map and others don't. The instructions I quoted above don't read very well. It should just say you must use the internal map with the initial setup if you don't have boost.

lemming104

They're also lacking built-in curves for some of the most common GM MAP sensors. They just have data for the onboard one, the GM "2.5 bar", and a bunch of Holley-branded sensors.

The overall instructions are kind of a mixed bag. The quick start guide printout that they send with the kit leaves something to be desired. The full "reference manual" is a little better. The help PDF that you get from within the tuning software is actually pretty helpful (I'm guessing it was adapted from materials already available for the HP and Dominator?).

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

The PDF that gets accessed in the software has way more information than the printed manual. Reading the HP and Dominator documentation is helpful, because tuning information is directly applicable to the TerminatorX.

I always tell people to read the documentation three times. Most people "skim" it once...maybe.

Andrew

_Adrenaline_

iTrader: (4)

Just to follow up. I pulled the SD card out to look at the tune on a computer. The stock injectors were not in there so i took the min pulse etc from the hp tuners file. Then i went and picked the GM LsX Map sensor so i can use that instead of a line into the car/computer. Runs and idles well, but ill still need to get a cable for future tuning. Thanks everyone for the help.

I can make another thread and search, but if anyone here cares to comment. Can i use another wide band (Innovate) hooked up to one of the input wires, so that i have AFR on both banks?