unit213

What's the hold up? How come there aren't any LS1's running 7's? Can't someone assemble a motor that can withstand 50psi of boost? It seems like the record has been in the high 8's for a while now. I know the LS1 is a relatively new platform and technology doesn't advance all that fast, but still...

Colonel

It's a looooooong fricken' way from 9s to 8s and about 10 times as long from 8s to 7s? Don't expect 'em anytime soon.

unit213

I know how difficult it is to get to the next level. What are the major restrictions though? Why can't someone with endless money build a huge N/A C5R motor with...oops, someone already did.

Seriously though, why can't someone with endless resources (say MTI) build the be-all/end-all LS1? I would imagine it'll take a huge amount of boost or spray to do it. Maybe the block can't take it?

Crazyquik

Why get sponsers and then spend 150k+ to build a super duper LS1 race car, when there's really no place or no one to race it? If fuel injected Fbody racing ever gets together and starts growing, and reaching a stage that Mustang racing was at even a few years ago, then there will start to be sponsered cars and larger purses, and sponsered cars means more money to go wild with engines to win the purses and get your car and sponser's name plastered all over everywhere.

Right now if you wanted to get a sponser and race a big budget Gen III, you'd have to be racing against some pretty scienced out small blocks, and the learning curve would be plenty steep. On top of that, even fully ported C5R heads cant keep up with some of the top end Brodix and Dart race heads you'd be facing in the bigger ci classes (although you wouldn't have as much problem running in smaller engined power adder classes I wouldnt' think). Of course, you've also got to keep the heads on and keep them from flexing, which can already be a problem at power levels we know of, and you're going to need twice that or more to run 7s.

But it all boils down to money. If someone were to give away a million dollars to the first Gen III that ran 7s, you can be sure people would be trying to build one. But as it is right now, there's no reason to other than bragging rights.

J.

unit213

I understand your points CrazyQuick. Well said. What about a shop building the car for itself. Wouldn't that car attract tons of business? Maybe not 150K worth. A friend of mine has a low 7 second Mustang and he drums of a lot of business racing it. I guess it boils down to the lack of an f-body racing scene again. With all the big turbos, blowers, and spray out there I figured someone would put together a ridiculous combo.

Colonel

unit, I can tell you, building an NA 8 second Gen III ain't cheap and building a 7 second Gen III is certainly going to be some crazy money in almost anyone's opinion. The incentive just ain't there yet.

Maybe, just maybe, one day within the next 5 years someone will get board and try it. Right now I don't even think the parts are available to do it at any cost. Can a Gen III even take that kind of power?

At the very least I think it would have to be an ultralight, tube chassis, full-out race car. No more of this stock chassis stuff.

unit213

Ya, the stock chassis crap would be out the window. Maybe a backhalf car? Are there any 7 second cars with stock style suspension? There sure can't be many if so. Guys are running high 8's right now. That's pretty amazing in itself.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

That guy Pro-LS1 ?? is building a full out race car with a blown C5R motor. I think he's going to be using a BIG Procharger.

Not sure what type of times he's going to be shooting for. Should be quick in that type of chassis.

Ok, now I'm going to sleep.

Hybrid Slow

When are we going to see an 8 second 03 Cobra? Hmmm...? Are there any 9 second 03 Cobras yet? Surely it can't be that hard to strap on a different blower and turn up the boost!

Anywho, I hereby announce that I will give away $100 dollars to the first person that breaks into the 7s with a fuel injected, LS1 based motor. And I will also buy them a beer or two.

BTW, I plan to be the first who takes an LS1 into the 7s... Or at least the guy who builds the motor (take that ARE!). :p

unit213

'03 Cobras have been out for one year and they've already been in the high 9's. Who's talking about Cobras here anyway?

Hybrid Slow

Well, you're giving the LS1 camp grief for not throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars just to break into the 7s.

And you're asking the question almost in a derogatory fashion, as if there was something terribly wrong with the LS1 that prevents it from making enough power to run a 7 second ET in the 1/4 mile.

Besides, the only thing you should be concerned about is the 03 Cobras IRS, and how to overcome it's crappiness. Let us worry about the progression of LS1 technology you trader! :p

BTW, the LT1 guys have yet to break into the 8s... You should go ask them why it's taking so damned long.

unit213

I'm not trying to give anyone grief. I am honestly curious to know why no one has made it into the 7 second range. I love the LS1 first off or I wouldn't be here. I never said there was anything wrong with it. I was wondering if a re-sleeved aluminum block could hold that kind of power amongst other things. It's a friendly post. I'm just trying to spark a little conversation. As for the trader stuff, I'm sick of hearing that from you guys. GM is the friggin' trader, not me. They stopped making f-bodies so I had no other alternative but to buy a Cobra.

It's you sir who is posting in a derogatory fashion. I wouldn't bother wasting asking about LT1's because I know nothing about them.

...and there are things wrong with the LS1. That's no secret. That has nothing to do with high end racing engines though. Those problems are eliminated well before that point.

unit213

I think I remember that guy. Didn't he post up about someone coming up with a paint scheme for his car?

Hybrid Slow

I don't think a re-sleeved aluminum block could hold the power needed to break into the 8s, much less the 7s. It will definitely take an iron block of some sort.

But maybe an aluminum block could last for a few passes... I'm not entirely sure.

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

Even with a fairly stripped down car (~3000lbs race weight) you'd theoretically need to be pushing around 1000rwhp to make it into the 7's...

Hybrid Slow

Actually, with a 3,000lbs car, you'd need about 1,400rwhp to go 7.98... 1000rwhp in a 3,000lbs car gets you to 8.93 (according to the math anyways).

But thanks to the suspension setup of these cars, an LS1 F-Body can typically run the same numbers as a generic 800hp car, but with about 200hp less... So maybe we could see 7s with a sub 3,000lbs vehicle and 1,250rwhp.. MAYBE.

I wonder how much power the ARE car is putting out? I'll guess 850 to 900rwhp?

SNAXS

Are you planning on spraying her, thats an easy 7.

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

I think your about 200rwhp light on your estimate.Remember it made 600+rwhp on motor alone.That is thru a TH350 also.Wade won't reveal how much he sprays,but you can bet it's a bunch.The 60 fts for the car are real soft,1.40s.With better 60s it could run 8.4-8.5s.I don't think it's practical anytime soon.It would require HUGE $$$$$ and after completion would'nt be competitive in the classes it would have to run in.I think a sprayed BBC running in the low 7s would still stomp it.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Depends on a lot of things...

How good will the new AFR heads be?

What LS2 tech will we be able to barrow from?

Could there be serious parts development going on somewhere for the GEnIII family that we aren't really aware of? Engine shops might decide to fully develop their parts BEFORE mentioning them in public. Could some of those parts be useful in getting into the 7's?

I think there are a lot of unknows and what's most unknown is if anyone wants to come up with the cheddar to go 7's.

unit213

Excuse my ignorance regarding forced induction, but can an iron block handle tons of boost? I'm talking 50psi or so. That's about what it would take I think. Are the heads a restriction at that point?

I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but my friends low 7sec Mustang runs around 50psi on a 390ci motor (I believe) and it can hold 2,000rwhp no problem. Where do the differences come into play?

I'm only asking because the high end racing stuff is beyond me.