mile_high51

iTrader: (5)

Ok guys, so I'm helping my stepfather build a racing motor for his limited late model oval track car he will be racing in Wisconsin Dells, WI. He's always had ambitions to race late models, so I want to help him out as much as possible to try and "hit the ground running" as best as we can in this new endeavor. Needless to say, we're both pretty stoked.

I can build him one helluva a motor with free reign, but the restrictions on this class are crazy strict. So I would like to ask for some more advise, input, suggestions.

Ok, so he prefers a Chevy Small Block obviously, and some of the restrictions are:

-362 CID max
-Iron block only
-stock or stock replacement cast iron unaltered heads (no porting/milling/polishing)
-min combustion chamber 62cc
-flat top pistons only
-10.8 to 1 max compression ratio
-only steel rods
-no roller cams or lifters (which pretty much rules out LS right?)
-.600'' max valve lift
-max 2.02'' intake and 1.60'' exhaust valves
-oem style rocker arm required
-production style crank steel crank with normal config counter weights
-no dry sump or vaccum systems of any kind
-intake has to be a vic jr. 2975 (again, no porting)
-it appears Holley 4412 2 barrel carb only

As you can see, quite the list. I'm not even entirely sure where to start with this! Firstly, how can I alter displacement as not to go over the max? I've only built 383's and up. Would destroking say a 400 block be better? Crank, bore and piston and rod length suggestions would be nice, anything to point me in the right direction. What type of heads would be best, we were thinking 202's.

Working on a slight budget, but not unwilling to spend money. Any help would be appreciated, thanks to anyone who posts.

indyboom

iTrader: (11)

You can make a hell of a 283 if the car is light, run a powerglide. The 283 or 302 chevy will rev out its ***.. They made steel cranks for them and heads are unlimited.. powerpac or humps..

mile_high51

iTrader: (5)

what can one of those make for power? when you talk about heads, what exactly do you think a "stock replacement" head can be? Can that be a dart or a powerpac? I would assume so but it would be nice to know for sure. I'm super afraid of spending this money only to get to the track and get told to go home.

also, I'm concerned because there is a rev limit as well, so wouldn't that also reduce the benefit of a 283 or 302? I think its 6200, but I'd have to double check.

01tam6

iTrader: (1)

To me stock replacement cast iron includes bowtie dart rhs and world products. I am a circle track racer myself heres what I would build. For the block if you have the money I would go Dart SHP with the 350 mains and 4.125 bore. Use a good crank ie callies, bryant, brc, lunati, cola etc. For rods I would do a manley sportsmaster or oliver I beam in a 6in length. Pistons I like J.E. or Wiseco. Heads I would do the bowtie vortecs I think they are 206cc intake runners 2.02/1.6 valves and a 64cc chamber. For the carb I would go to VDL fuel systems or maybe a stealth. Cam I would go something like 248/252 @50 with something around .550-.580 lift. on a 108lsa. if the rpm limit isnt to low. Decrease the duration and lift for the lower rpm limit. Should make 425-475fwp depending on how much money is put into the carb and rotating assembly. If it is a 6200 chip rule I might consider the 350 bore with jus a little more stroke. Kinda depends on the track and tire too. The big bore engine should make a little more on top and be easier to hook up while the small bore/longer stroke should make a little more torque and be great on restarts and coming out of the turns(if you can hook it)!

mile_high51

iTrader: (5)

we were planning on using a 350 block we have. so with the standard 4.000 bore, what stroke would be best to get ideal displacement for the intake set up. i would love to nuts with the intake, but like i said above were pretty locked with the holley 2 barrel and vic jr. with changing strokes what do i have to worry about as far as piston clearance and the effects on the combustion chamber?

with heads, thats different. if you really think those aftermarket heads can be considered "stock replacement" I think we will definitely be picking some up. those 206 sound perfect, typically good numbers with those huh?

01tam6

iTrader: (1)

Yeah clear those with your tech guy and don't be afraid to go through the pits and scope out the competition. They make really good power out of the box and are ideal for your rules, I would rank the small port bowtie vortecs second and RHS 200cc angle plugs third. I would go with a 3.5" stroke gives you a lil more than the stock 3.48 and will keep you below your 362 rule and compression rule plus if something happens and you have to bore the cylinders out you won't already be at 362 and have sum room to grow. As far as the piston goes just get some for the length rod you decide to use. A 6in rod piston usually has a comp height of 1.20-1.25 that makes up the .300 that your rods added, also having the .020 added stroke you wont have to take near as much material off the deck of the block assuming you want a zero deck. I would keep a piston to head clearance of .035-.045 and you should be good to go.

mile_high51

iTrader: (5)

this is awesome help man.

im going to give a call to some of the race officials and hopefully get the all clear on those heads and start the building! when you say wait to bore, you mean in case something breaks i take it? how often are you able to simply bore your cylinder to fix those types of problems? i was thinking bore the block we have 30 over right off the bat with a 3.5 stroke to make a 357?

when the rules say only "magnetic" steel rods and crank, does that entail forged? how about hypernautic pistons?

i really appreciate the help

01tam6

iTrader: (1)

I would go ahead and take it to .030 over if your using the 350 block like you said. Basically the rule is referring to no titanium or aluminum. Forged stuff is almost always legal to run. I would run a forged piston if it were me. I like J.E. but have used Wiseco Pro-lite and XLS series in the past with no problem. I would use one of these pistons with the metric ring package and gas ports. Race Engineering is great to deal with they can put together a rotating assembly and balance it for just about any application. Don't forget a good harmonic dampener. Dont try and use a stock one with the rubber they are notorious for coming apart and destroying the bottom end. Go for a fluid damper or an ATI.

mile_high51

iTrader: (5)

fluid damper, check. already in the works.

this is great info dude, i really appreciate it. we realize that were not going to be top dogs right out of the gate but we have a 15+ year history of racing (30+ if you only count my stepdad) so being competitive is big. well just have to tweak things here and there and find what works.

so right now my plans are to bore the block 0.030, find a forged 3.5'' crank, pick up a nice set of 6'' I beam rods, some forged flattop pistons, and a set of bowtie 200+cc heads. should be a damn good motor.

this is looking like a relatively pricy build, and since we've already spent $2600 on just the race car frame we may have to make a few compromises (ie a nice set of H beam rods as opposed to I, may decide we dont need a forged crank, etc) but your help has been enormous nonetheless.

i want to wait until everything else is bought to start deciding on cam specs, but you gave me a good starting point.

now we have to start figuring out where to start on the suspension and tranny for the car lol. racecar people never lie when they say this stuff is expensive and time consuming!

mile_high51

iTrader: (5)

im still a little lost as piston to head clearance and deck height in regards to keeping that 10 to 1 compression ratio, but my stepfather is pretty knowledgeable in that department and knows quite a few engine builders who can help with all those final block specs.

01tam6

iTrader: (1)

Ok good deal glad I could help.

ici8uup

where at in the wi i'm in reedsburg i have a 327 crank 3.25 stroke and a set of of 302 2.02 heads still at the machine shop swirl polished valaves screw in studs and guid plates bronze guides no porting work done p.m if interested I also have a couple od std bore 4-bolt blocks, I'm pretty sure you can't run glides but i also have a few cores and a few th-350.s also got a couple of muncies borg warners and a saginaw if you wanna go std