GhstnDaJimmy

So going through a lot of research and I have yet to get a solid answer to this question. If you were building a street/ strip car, truck, suv, or whatever what would you build. You have 30k in your current budget and 10k stashed away for BS if it comes up. Now here is the question rather it be 500, 600, or 1,000 hp and roughly close ft lb if built to the same power levels equally which is the best investment? Why is it the best investment? I know an LS or SBC would need power adders getting passed 500 hp while for those of you that choose to compare with 1k hp well both need Power adders. Also if I remember correctly weight can be considered but I believe it's an 100 pound difference.

Anyway which would be best if all where the same power

Tuskyz28

Just depends on your goals...
Also do you have a body yet to put a motor into ?

Tuskyz28

LS motors don't need a power adder to make over 600 horse at the crank. All it takes is cubes and the correct cylinder heads/cam to match the combo.

StealthFormula

iTrader: (35)

I think it depends a lot upon the intended use of the vehicle and the person's goals etc. A BBC and a SBC both with similar power numbers could have very different power/torque curves depending on the displacement of each motor etc. etc. Also there's the weight factor, an all aluminum LS based motor is going to weigh a lot less than your typical iron block BBC. Not saying either one is better just saying they both have their appropriate places.

ATK Engines

iTrader: (1)

Neither do BBC.

GhstnDaJimmy

Well I mentioned it didn't matter. But if your looking for a certain type lets say

LS-L99

BBC-454 Stroked

SBC- 350

So weight and power curve will effect engines with the same or around the same power levels?

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

MY CHOICE is based on cost per HP.

I would use a 2008+ L-92 engine, common price @ $3500.00 (ADM)

I would fit a Crower Cams L-92 "reground", your core, @ $200.00
I would fit a steel gear timing set, single, AND upgrade to the LS-3 guide @ $200.00
I would fit PSI 1511ML Valve Springs, GN West NASCAR required, @ $200.00
I would fit Felpro 1041 Head Gaskets. (.041")
I would fit a LS-3 Intake Manifold with 500cc injectors.
I would fit my ECU-882C for the EMS

You will see 600+ HP at the crankshaft.

"BEST" investment = Weight/Cost/HP

Lance

cuisinartvette

bbc beeds less gear cam etc to get there,will make bigger #s at lower rpm
there are so many variables other than $ and hp. 500 is nothing for a bbc and textbook easy for an old gen 1 sbc we all know LSx are easy

Go take a ride with some guys with all the above youll get a better idea...also what do you want to see when you pop your hood?
Big fat valve covers or modern stuff with some plastic
Can you tune a carb, good with electronics?

JoeNova

Lots of factors.
All 600 HP engines are not created equal.
For example, a 600 HP diesel engine would typically have its *** handed to it by a 600 HP gas engine because of powerband alone. The double (or more than double) RPM range allows the gas engine to have several advantages.

If you have a 600 HP big block that can only rev to 5000 RPM, A 7000 RPM LS or small block may very well have the upper hand. It opens you up to shorter gearing, allowing more mechanical advantage without sacrificing MPH.

Also, my all aluminum LS weighed exactly HALF what my all iron big block weighed.

Daveymg

300hp out of a bored out 283 backed by a 5 speed in a fiberglass bodied 2 seater bare bones bomber rat feels like 500hp out of a 396 in a full bodied Chevelle. Having said that, typical, traditional thinking says that 600hp out of a 572 inch engine is going to be more reliable with less wear on the internals than 600hp out of a bored to the max 400 small block... but there's a lot of other variables at play.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi, there is another test done by many in the south, one such person is Dave at WaterThunder.com

Dave Hartz stated the test criteria:

Two Air Boats tested
One BBC, one LS of the same tune at OEM HP
Both boats where on the trailer
Both Air Boats had the same prop/pitch
Same Thrust Gauge connected to the ground from the trailer to a staked "post"
The SAME thrust reported, about 1500 .lbs

Now the BIG DIFFERENCE was the LS Air Boat's weight was 1/3 LOWER.

Lance

weedburner

If you are racing where the engine rpm varies a lot, like a sprint car or 4spd manual drag car losing 2000rpm on each of 3 shifts, the 600hp BBC won't stand a chance against a 600hp SBC. It's basically due to the added weight in the BBC's rotating assy.

If your racing where the engine rpm varies very little, like an powerboat or Powerglide equipped drag car with 800-1000 rpm drop on a single shift, the performance difference will be much less.

Here's a comparison of two engines that were installed a street/strip manual 4spd car, only significant difference between them was different component weights...

...Engine #1 was 4.04" x 3.48" w/ 5.7" i-beam rods, hypers with gas ported spacers and 1.2mm rings (12lb oil), 49lb crank and heavy 8" balancer, 1863g bobweight.

...Engine #2 is 4.03" x 3.48" w/ 6" aluminum rods, forged pistons with lateral gas ports and 1.5mm rings (14lb oil), 42lb crank with pendulum style counterweights, drilled rod journals, 6" balancer, 1492g bobweight .

Both had flat tops with nearly identical quench and compression. Exact same intake and carb, same carb calibration. Exact same cam installed on the exact same intake centerline. Exact same flywheel and pressure plate installed in exactly the same car, same weight, with exactly the same gearing and tires. Even though these tests were a couple weeks shy of 2 years apart, both tests are on the same location with zero tire spin and conditions were very close to the same. The car itself was basically a time capsule...I lost engine #1 a few weeks after the test, and i had other irons in the fire so the car sat until engine #2 was ready to install...just picking up where i had left off with regard to developing the car. Here's the average rates that each engine gained rpm WOT thru the gears...

1st gear 2000 to 4000 rpm- engine #1 1634 rpm/sec........engine #2 1910 rpm/sec (276 rpm/sec difference) = 18.8% gain
1st gear 4000 to 6000 rpm- engine #1 1975 rpm/sec........engine #2 2217 rpm/sec (242 rpm/sec difference) = 12.2% gain
2nd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm- engine #1 1070 rpm/sec.......engine #2 1116 rpm/sec (46 rpm/sec difference) = 4.2% gain
3rd gear 4000 to 6000 rpm- engine #1 535 rpm/sec.........engine #2 541 rpm/sec (6 rpm/sec difference) = 1.1% gain
No 4th gear data available for comparison.

The quicker an engine sweeps thru a gear, the more you will gain from lightweight components. These engines might both make around 500ft/lbs each running steady state NA, making engine #2's 12.2% gain in 1st gear from 4-6k roughly equal to around a 60hp advantage over engine #1.

Sometimes it helps to think about what happens in opposite extremes...

A given engine has a maximum acceleration rate that it can gain rpm without any external load at all...like a neutral free-rev. At that point all it's power is being used to accelerate itself, and no power is left over to do external work. The lighter an engine's rotating assembly, the easier/quicker it is to accelerate. Sweeping thru the heart of it's torque curve, engine #1 in my example above could gain rpm without a load at the average rate of 8500 rpm per second. Engine #2 could gain rpm without a load at the average rate of 11,515 rpm per second.

On the other end of the spectrum if a car accelerates and works it's way thru the gears, it eventually reaches a point where the engine can no longer accelerate the car. At that point all the engine's power is being used to overcome friction/drag, and there is no power left over for acceleration. This is also the point where the weight of the rotating assy no longer has any effect at all on the power output of the engine. All the torque the engine is making is reaching the transmission's input shaft, no power is being absorbed by the rotating assy as inertia. Operating WOT against maximum load, engine #1 and engine #2 both make the same power.

Looking at these two extremes makes it easier to understand how acceleration rate can have such a huge effect on dyno data. The two otherwise identical engines will make about the same torque when operating against maximum load at a constant rpm, but if engine #1 were dynoed at an acceleration rate of 8500 rpm per second, it would make zero torque on the dyno. Engine #2 still has power left over to move the needle.

If you are running wide open across the ocean, less crankshaft weight will probably hurt you more than help you. If you are a dirt track sprint car on the pole during a re-start, less crankshaft weight is going to be a “BFD”! Most of us here will fall somewhere in between.

TT427

iTrader: (1)

Why would a 600hp BBC only ref to 5000rpm? The premise is is not realistic. Any engine that has a 2000rpm deficit but equal power is doing way less work over time. To have that situation the parts are for completely different purposes, if it's even possible.

GhstnDaJimmy

Wow holy ****

I didn't expect this to get more and sharper answers. Thank you all for the input. From what I am seeing the LS is better for what I am doing. Thank you for the information.

TT427

iTrader: (1)

you never said what you were doing. You asked about a money situation with an open ended question, no real parameters.

GhstnDaJimmy

Well I posted here before on what my build is but I think its lost and I have to find it or open a new post seeing as I am going in a new situation. All that rambling aside here is your answer:

So my build is to take an 2nd Gen GMC Jimmy 4x4 and convert it over to AWD. Well among so many questions talking to my local shop here in Juneau I was suggested to go with an 454 Stroked BBC over the LS as they felt it was a "**** engine" with the amount of issues they seen come in with others LS.

soloman369

iTrader: (13)

I raced a 572 BBC crate motor 1500 vid is on FB the page is On the light production. He only got me by a car.

TT427

iTrader: (1)

for what you are doing an LS swap would be easiest imo. Not necessarily better. VortecPro has a some nice stock parts BBC engines that are pretty cheap you should look just to see what's possible and see what can be done for cost, but LS stuff is so simple to drop in and mm and exhaust are have pretty much been done for everything now.

GhstnDaJimmy

I thought about this and the 454 BBC just will be too much for the 4l60e to handle and like someone else mentioned fitting an 4l80e with a lifted body kit will cause my center of gravity to be off. I believe a lq4(9) will be a better fit plus getting the power to match with a performance rebuilt 4l60e is fully achievable. Thing is I would have to pay someone to do this work and I wonder how much I am looking at?

We are talking about:

• AWD Conversion
• 6.0 stroked with 600 hp to 590 fttq N/A
• 4l60e (Thinking performbuilt level 3 seeing as that Sonnax is legit)
• 4-Link Coilover on the rear and coilover in the front
• chassis work I believe
• Any frame repair

I wonder what the cost will be. I just want a Street/Strip DD and so far this build is landing to 60k but maybe I'm adding too much.

GhstnDaJimmy

Do you have a link as I could not find out