"factory freaks"? Someone explain.
 

I have heard about these "factory freak" camaro's and i wish to know what they are and how they came to be. Anyone?

or do you mean like my car was rated at 325 fly wheel. and i put 313 to the ground stock.

that what you mean by a freak. not all cars built the same. motors act different

Damn, Scott Kallita must be one hell of a driver, he got a full second lower, two times!

I wouldn't have published it either.......maybe the timers at the track were messed up?

you mean a second faster?

i just dont understand how things fell into the parts bin. maybe an employee did this on purpose and was never caught?

Most of the time it's all in the driver and a good set of tire's.

a bone stock SS 6spd car and the average time we pulled was somewhere in the 13.38's. Scott Kallita (top fuel driver) got in the car and then ripped out a 12.27 and he backed it up with a 12.29!

^^I have to call :bs: I don't care if Jesus was driving.^^

A factory freak more times then not has nothing to be with different parts being used but rather tolerances and such that make a difference. They do exist.

He is a professional drag racer but a whole sec. does seem hard to do. Maybe they meant 12.72 & 12.92 now that is possible.

I would believe that but a whole second I cannot.

i dont see a bone stock ls1 running 12.2

you show me an ls1 that will run a 12.2 bone stock and I will show you a car touched by the hand of god. The 12.7 and 12.9 would make sense though.

Probably meant 13.27 and 13.29. That would make more sense being that it was a tenth faster with a better driver.

^^^^yeah i'm going to need to see a video of this. who attacked first the ninjas or the tiger? i think had he not wasted his time on the tiger, he could have pulled a better time.

OK! Maybe it was just a large orange cat. but the cat was really mad!

my 01 hawk put down 12.8's every time

britt, i'm sure had the cat been closer to Steven Segal, chuck would have no existence in this world

This one?

http://art1.server06.sheezyart.com/image/40/405781.jpg

Thats him! But the day of this incident he wasn't wearing his grandmas scarf

i'm going to pretend that you didn't just compare segal to chuck "steel your soul" norris!

*was* one hell of a driver

This thread now officially sucks :thumbsdow

yea my question was about whether or not these cars truly exist and why they could possibly exist.

Yes they do exist and They were built intentionally I heard from two GM guys at the AETC or advanced Engineering Technology Confrence that Camaros got a 385 hp motor set up as get this a JOKE on firebirds. Gm has been doing this for years they did it to some Grand Prix's in the early 01 02's some of the GPs got "better" heads and superchargers and made a lil more power
well that was straight from Will Handzel's mouth so take it or leave it :punch:
that the reason some dyno so well eg. 310-320 rwhp :angel:

This thread got side tracked for a bit huh? :hijack:

You know why this is a load of BS is because the EPA has to certify a cars pollution controls and mpg. On top of that if they started making those so called "JOKE" changes all it would take is a car going to a state that has emissions testing and have a factory stock car fail and it would be a huge fine for GM.. Not to mention what would the part numbers be on these "JOKE" better heads? No to mention where would they get these parts from? There are cars that dyno better than others because of various factors, but dyno's themselves vary wildly........

Does the EPA test every car?

No they dont but once they test a model line up and certify it any changes require a recertification.. But states with emission testing do test every car and if a car fails but is in stock trim there is a problem...

It seems to me like these cars could exist. Really good driver and some traction and it's possible to pull a high twelve out of some of stock ls1 f-bodies. Now, on the same token, some of them have trouble pulling mid 13s in stock form, so take it as it is.

I read a story on here that a guy bought an LS1 Camaro and when he went to pull the heads off it had LS6 heads on it. What was also mentioned that this was because of of the facroty running out of the heads on the LS1s and they just used the LS6's. Im not exzactly sure but I remember reading it a couple months ago.

That makes sense... As a design engineer for whirlpool (and i know whirlpool isn't gm....lol), when a model is released every part on that unit has to meet a certain specification, if this spec. can't be met you end up with a deviation that causes a big head ach for everyone. The only way i see GM putting heads other than whats spec'd for the ls1 in the camaro is if for some reason the ls1 heads couldn't be used for whatever reason, and some sort of deviation from spec. took place.... Which very well could have happened.

The Dave Hamburger story is about an LT1. No LT1 will hit the 12's from the factory.

I know of a couple people that did hit the 12's in a LS1 though.

That's about all it is...a story.

There was no shortage of heads or engines. The engines carried over until '04. They all had 241 heads.

people tell me i got one. my 2002 Z28 m6 put down 325.6rwhp/339.9rwtq and i ran 12.97@111.08 with everything bone stock. no aftermarket parts not even a different air filter. the only explanation i can think of is maybe some cars could have small casting flaws in the heads that cause a couple more hp... but nothing major

there where alot of lt1 freaks...seen a few f bodies that had 4-bolt mains from the factory. Actually 93 had more freaks than any. pink rods and hardened push-rods and slightly bigger cams...

My CE put down 333hp and 351ftlbs tq when I dynoed it completely stock down to the paper air filter. The only thing I did the day before was change the oil (full synthetic Mobil 1) and add a bottle of that octane booster to the 93 octane gas(not sure if that did anything, though) The outside air temp was in the 40's. It was a Mustang dyno and the figures were corrected.

But for my car to put down 333hp at the wheels where another LS1 before me put down 335 and had a lid, filter and exhaust makes me wonder.

ok so your theory of emissions is if the car fails only what if the 385 hp motors passed then there would be no questions or any doubt why were vettes rated so much higher that f-bodies answer to sell more vettes so why couldnt a f-body get the same "set-up" as a vette or possibly a different and the heads were swapped on GRAND PRIXS not f-bodys oh and they did run out of ls1 parts why do you think some f-bodies have ls6 blocks if you doubt me pm me and ill give you Will's personal e-mail my self and you can ask him im not trying to start stuff I was just shocked that GM did this.:D

agreed...:chug:

I would think that they would have to tune the camaro computor to run the different hardware. I dont see those guys doing any tuning on the line.

the computer really only controls the fuel and air ratio's not much else. if it noticed more air coming in it would just compensate and add more fuel. atleast thats what i would hypothesize. i think a lot may have to do with the M6 cars. we have 2 97 SS's. our black one had shorty headers, CAi, and maybe one or two other bolt ons and is an A4. However, our 97 30th Anniv SS is an M6 and just lays the smack down when they run each other. The SS is bone stock to the filter.

M6 for the win again!!

Oh boy, The great M6 vs A4 debate.

Factory freak does not mean that there were different parts "accidentally" installed. There are manufacturing tolerances that can and do happen, as well as assembly procedures varying slightly from car to car. Also, the way the car was driven while new can have an impact on how it performs.

Let's face it, although the cars SHOULD be very comparable in actual performance, if you were to purchase 5 new F bods back in 02, 01, etc, and put them all on the dyno, and run them at the strip, some will be faster than others. It's just reality.

With all that said, my definition of a factory freak is one that performs better than the average car but they will have the same factory installed parts.

Having a superb driver coupled with a good running car can make it tick off some great times, making it seem even more "freakish".

I hadn't had my car but a month or two when I took it to the track on street tires and it layed down multiple 13.0 at 108.xx with sub-par 2.xx 60fts. After those passes I got it in the 12.9s at nearly 109 mph....108.96 to be exact, with only a 2.050 short time. The car layed down 321 rwhp/331rwtq later that summer with only an SLP lid.

I know for a fact I have driven some other m6 f bods that didn't have what it takes to run 12s stock or nearly stock, even if I drove them the same as I did my own.

:chug:
Thank you! like i said GM did it!!! Funny that birds got the goods too just finished talking to Will Handzel and he admited to the accident!:emb:

The vettes set up is the same as in the F-body as far as motor internals go.. WE all know that the F-body was underrated. A lot of the wildy varying dyno numbers are the dyno's themselves an operator can make the dyno off.. If cars got different parts what are those part numbers and what cars did they come from?? Esp different heads? What was the casting number on the different head?? The 385hp camaro motor what are the cam specs and what car did they take it from?? I know they used LS6 blocks my car has one big deal it doesnt add any power...

You quoted only a section of my post like I agree with you, which I do not:engarde:

Besides the LS6 block, there weren't any "special" parts installed purposely or by accident.

I think alot of it is the driver and track conditions. But i have seen the performance of 2 stock ls cars vary though!

I agree 100% Even the "almighty" LS6 block did nothing for power. In fact, it has shown to be less tolerant of some modifications. Its all about proper break-in, lucky machining, and the driver.


It is proven that tighter built motors make better power with the same parts. Chrysler had a division in the late 60's that put out a memo to all machinists saying if they ever came across a dead nuts perfect part they should set it aside for the special edition models that came with factory blueprinted motors. I can find my source if needed.

im not sure why all you guys are talking about emissions testing and so on and so fourth when most obd2 cars just get a plug in test to begin with.

i find it kind of hard pressed to think people put higher hp parts into cars, esp camaros only. How would they pick the cars? whats done diffrent to them?

Like said i just think its tolerences and what not that make them run diffrent, and if you didnt buy the car brand new the maintance/ way it was driven would have a big effect on how good it runs.

I Dont think my ws6 is a freak to say, but it definatly has more guts then some other lt1 and even ls1s around here with more/same mods. Idk why, and i dont really care since how many of you really plan on keeping your car stock

99% of the time a factory freak is just a car that happened to be put together just right from the factory! Kinda like blue printing your motor to perfect specs! A couple might have got a few goodies here or there but thats a very very few cars.

well, i put down 336 whp with K&N intake and exhaust. I thought it was a typical number for fbodies....

I had a 99 convertible bone stock turn a 13.33 at 106mph had 700 miles on it was just barely broke in mmm miss that car

factory freak is just a machine thats put together better than the others same parts but some just are to better tolerances..... like women

Here's a freak..it did have DR's though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkXFFrpVgRQ

My 02 M6 SS has the SLP 345HP package with the Blackwing lid and dual/dual cat back. It dynoed 327hp on a Dynojet. I've been 12.98 on street tires and 12.69 on MT DR's with no other mods.

Yeah, there are some real freaks out there. Most of 'em are behind the wheel!!
BTW - my HOSS came with a C5R 427 in it! They were out of LS1s that day.

Almost all the car's that run 12's stock are M6 car's. My 02 SS A4 345HP w/a P&P TB and a Hypertech Hand Tuner ran a 12.87@107 1.96 60ft on M/T ET Street's so i guess that's not bad for a A4 but i would'nt call it a factory freak.

John Force drove my '02 1LE A4 to an 10.27@143. Stock. He backed it up with a 10.26.

in my lid/full exhaust '02 m6 I did 12.7@112.87 with a 2.1 60' (bald ass tires)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMwSsOSEH9I

Factory freaks? :rolleyes: :bs:

More like different weather conditions, different drivers, etc.

This is more than true.Track condition's,Driver,Air temp.,Elevation all contribute to how fast a car can go!!!

Casting flaws, machining tolerances, and some would say holding your mouth just right. Outside of weather conditions and the driver mod, factory freaks do exist. I used to see it in motorcycles ALL the time. I worked in the assembly department at a local dealership. The amount of assembly varied per model but everything comes with the engine/transmission assembled. Certain bikes of the same year model would be noticeably faster than others. Every year I would assemble 2 or 3 KX 450F's that would be blindingly fast from the first start up. I would also assemble 2 or 3 that were, well, factory turds. They were all treated the same from the moment they came out of the crate. Following the factory assembly and service manual for everything. Some engines just run better than others.

So anyone want to chime in on the fact that some '96 LT1 cars got VARIOUS left over LT4 parts? Anyone? Beuller? Since, it was common knowledge and GM actually did leak out that it happened. Some F-Bodies "mistakenly" got the LT4 cam and/or valvetrain. Some were even rumored to have the LT4 heads and cam but that's never been confirmed through GM. So yes, factory freaks....exist. But not in Mustangs, they're all slow.

Later Big Daddy ran a 10.14 and backed it up with a 10.18. I'm thinking by the time Dale Jr. gets his turn behind the wheel we'll be well into the 9s. Tony Schumacher says he can get it in the 8s on street tires. Dreamer!

Didn't read the thread (this is a common topic), so someone might have said this, but "factory freaks" are a thing of the past. Yes, they existed in the glory days of the past, but they haven't been around for a long, long time. Manufacturing tolerances are much tighter. It doesn't really matter as much if Joebob on the line is having a good day or bad day anymore.

And, if someone in this thread suggested that parts got "accidentally" swapped, like a super-secret cam shaft or something, that's ignorance to the point of childishness. Only a 13 year old would actually believe something that stupid.

100% correct and labeling anything else a "factory freak" (that is not a car with all factory parts just on the better side of tolerance limit but with some better part on it) is just a waste of band width.

Here's an example (JUST an EXAGGERATED example, not actual)...

LT1's are supposed to have 1.5 roller rockers. Let's say the tolerance is 1.45-1.55.

My car gets the 1.45's, Mike's car gets the 1.5s and Gilbert's car gets the 1.55's.

My car is slower than the "factory" rating. Mike's car is dead on. Gilbert's car is faster.

SO, I buy some 1.6 roller rockers and see a HUGE gain. Mike buys some also looking for the same gain and gets a gain but not as much. Gilbert buys some and hardly notices any improvement.

A lot of "factory freaks" don't respond to some mods well (because they aren't as big as an improvement as the expect it to be) while "slow" cars tend to responds to mods well.

Of course, it is a crap shoot as to what parts you have that are hindering/improving performance from factory tolerances. It could be exhaust, it could be internal, etc...

Factory parts are not going to have that big of tolerances, esp with modern machining, your factory rockers might have a .002 of a difference but 1.5 are not going to have a whole tenth of variance.

ONCE AGAIN, as I posted in the post above yours... "JUST an EXAGGERATED example, not actual"

All motors are different they are within certain specs but they will have their differences especially due to tooling wear and when they were upgraded and or replaced and when they were produced during the week. Haha union guys.

Gaurantee the wed motor had more detail than the monday or friday.

i couldnt have said it better bottom line no such thing as a factory freak

Can we stop posting in this thread, Haha. BOTTOM LINE they don't exist, at least not in an extreme enough form to call them 'freaks'. It always comes down to the driver mod.

haha ok. They do exist. Come on down to GM where I work and tell the engineers on the dynos why they are running two of the same engines both on either ends of the tolerances. Each engine is different but is rolled out as long as its in tolerance spec. For example compression can be within .1 of the advertised number high or low.

You know, while I had my time at an assembly plant I could totaly see a factory freak being created! Albeit, we were building Ford Escapes and the other two models, it could very well happen. Could of been a late nite, maybe a break down for a few hours on the line. Motor line guys go hit the bar and get lit. Makes the nite go by faster and funner.:chug: Get back, decide to put an LS6 or just the plain vette motor in the Ls1 line! Makes it down the line and checks out. There you go!!! :D

Or did they put the motors together @ the canadian plant where they were built???

Thats not going to happen they are very clearly labelled and even a drunk employee could read it. And they come in different shipments, AND if GM execs. ever got word of this they would have that employee out of work immediately.

I don't think so Iceman, not with Unioins. It takes a lot to get rid of a union employee, and being drunk or swaping parts isn't going to do it.

I've always thought that factory freaks are found by the way higher numbers the car puts down with the same mods compared to others. I guess compared to average numbers.

I saw a factory freak non y-87 no posi v6 camaro run 14.4 with just the spare tire jack removed.

I remember some Mustang mag was pissed at for because they took out an 02 ss and it ran 12.9s out of the box on a hot day. I believe it was an m6.

my cousins BONE STOCK 6spd 2002 firehawk put 347 rwhp down and 331 rwtq.

i'm pretty sure they exist. but it seems to be more common with the M6 cars. maybe its not the motors, could the transmissions or rearend gearing have anything to do with it?

that doesnt make it a factory freak. It makes it a factory cheat.. Thats just like the 01 02 Fbodies getting Ls6 heads because of GM running out of LS1 heads.... Doesnt make it a freak... Makes it a mistake... Now in a sense of my 1999 eclipse GST beating slightly modded GST's from rolls... Thats a factory freak..

This is the first real post in this thread. This is a factory freak, not some employee who put the wrong parts on a car or some GM experiment car.