Something's not right...
05-26-2009, 04:15 PM
#1
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Something's not right... Alright, well first of all it's my 01 WS6 and it has the monsoon system. When I bought it, the sail panel speakers were blown. Now, I replaced those a long time ago and something still wasn't right. I just recently pulled everything apart this past weekend to check things out and everything looked good. But my problem is that is still sounds weak. Now I've heard the monsoons in other TA's before and there's sounded WAY better. I have an aftermarket unit in there and all the speakers work fine, but I get little to no bass from the sails. I mean they work fine, but it doesn't sound like any of the other monsoons I've heard. Anyone had this problem before? Oh and I'm in the process of hooking up another system in my car... just wanted to see if anyone knows anything about this! 
05-26-2009, 06:24 PM
#2
If you replaced them with a standard 4 ohm speaker, that's the problem. Even though you replaced the HU, it still sends it's signal to the Monsoon amp and then powers the speakers. The back seat speakers from the factory are 2 ohms, so if you replace it with a 4 ohm speaker, then you just increased the resistance causing the problem you described...if you replace the front door speakers with a standard 4 ohm, you'll have the same problem there as well.
05-26-2009, 06:27 PM
#3
See Ian Kee at Kee Audio. Go for the Bazooka replacements for the Monsoon and you should be happy once more. (They are inexpensive, stout, and sound better than stock.) https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...ll-w-pics.html
05-26-2009, 09:05 PM
#4
Yes...in a Camaro. Firebirds have 4-ohm + 4-ohm dual voice coil subs in the sail panels. Now, if he replaced them with a 4-ohm SVC sub then it would have a similar effect - only using one of the two channels on each side. But that half power would only reduce output by 3dB - noticeable but not that significant (although possibly enough to make the overall sound seem like it was lacking bass compared to other Firebirds).
05-26-2009, 11:05 PM
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So which would be the best route to take? I know I purchased the speakers that were SUPPOSED to be in my ride. But I know for a fact they are 4 ohm. I know for a fact, I've heard other monsoons sound 100x better. I literally have zero to no bass on certain tracks. I was thinking about putting some aftermarkets in there, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that because of the monsoon system. Any tips?
05-27-2009, 12:21 AM
#6
Yes, the Camaro are 2 Ohm SVC, and the Firebird are 4 Ohm DVC wired in parallel to achieve a 2 ohm load...so they are both 2 ohm in the end, allthough the Firebird's COULD be wired in series to achieve an 8 Ohm load, but they're NOT that way from the factory.
There's got to be more than a -3 dB drop when using a 4 Ohm speaker in the Monsoon back seat speakers...it would most definitely be noticeable.
However, Anthony, as mentioned in a previous post, the EASIEST way to rectify the situation is either get the 2 Ohm Bazooka's, or find factory replacements used in the classifieds here. If you want to keep the speakers you've already got, then there are several more expensive options to make them work properly, but if you don't plan to start running aftermarket amps, or rewiring the aftermarket HU's speaker outputs, then replacing the back seat speakers with a factory or aftermarket speakers that are, or can be wired for 2 Ohms is the best route.
There's got to be more than a -3 dB drop when using a 4 Ohm speaker in the Monsoon back seat speakers...it would most definitely be noticeable.
However, Anthony, as mentioned in a previous post, the EASIEST way to rectify the situation is either get the 2 Ohm Bazooka's, or find factory replacements used in the classifieds here. If you want to keep the speakers you've already got, then there are several more expensive options to make them work properly, but if you don't plan to start running aftermarket amps, or rewiring the aftermarket HU's speaker outputs, then replacing the back seat speakers with a factory or aftermarket speakers that are, or can be wired for 2 Ohms is the best route.
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05-27-2009, 06:43 AM
#8
I believe the connector for the Monsoon speakers is different from the others, (its a 4 pin vs. a 2 pin) so if you purchased GM speakers and got the wrong one, you would have noticed.
You probably just blew your new set at some point. (they are really weak speakers) If you replace them again with GMs, you'll just get the same result.
See my link above for pictures and a procedure for installing aftermarkets and you can get an idea of what is involved. If you go with speakers other than the bazookas, you could have more steps involved.
You probably just blew your new set at some point. (they are really weak speakers) If you replace them again with GMs, you'll just get the same result.
See my link above for pictures and a procedure for installing aftermarkets and you can get an idea of what is involved. If you go with speakers other than the bazookas, you could have more steps involved.
05-27-2009, 08:01 AM
#9
Yes, the Camaro are 2 Ohm SVC, and the Firebird are 4 Ohm DVC wired in parallel to achieve a 2 ohm load...so they are both 2 ohm in the end, allthough the Firebird's COULD be wired in series to achieve an 8 Ohm load, but they're NOT that way from the factory.
It takes ten times as much power to double volume (or one tenth power to cut volume in half).
This fails to take into account the question of efficiency (sensitivity) of the speaker. If you replace a 2-ohm speaker that has 89dB sensitivity with a 4-ohm speaker that has 92dB sensitivity, there is no drop in volume because the 3dB increase in sensitivity offsets the 3dB drop in power from the doubling of the impedance. This situation is quite common when replacing relatively inefficient factory speakers with aftermarket ones.
05-27-2009, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for all the help with this. I think I am going to go with the bazooka's for this one. I plan on upgrading everything inside anyways, so why not start now?
Also, WhiteBird, what way do you think I should go? I just want to get my sound back and I'd rather just upgrade now anyways.
Also, how would I go about rewiring the bazooka's? I mean, can I use the old harness and solder it to the new speakers or would I have to go about making my own? What measures would I have to take and what would I have to do to make my own? I'm not exactly sure what the monsoon entails as far as doing all of this.
Also, WhiteBird, what way do you think I should go? I just want to get my sound back and I'd rather just upgrade now anyways.
Also, how would I go about rewiring the bazooka's? I mean, can I use the old harness and solder it to the new speakers or would I have to go about making my own? What measures would I have to take and what would I have to do to make my own? I'm not exactly sure what the monsoon entails as far as doing all of this.
05-27-2009, 10:03 AM
#11
There are basically three models of subs that will work well as replacements for the Monsoon sail panels. They are the Bazooka, the AudioPipe, and the Elemental Designs. These are all 6.5" 4-ohm dual voice coil mid-bass subs. I haven't tried the Bazookas but I've heard good responses from those who have installed them. I have used both the AudioPipe and eD subs. The eD subs are very slightly better than the others but they are also deeper and require a spacer for mounting. I'm not sure that the slight difference is worth the extra cost and installation hassles. Overall I've been very pleased with the AudioPipe subs - they are a huge improvement over the stock speakers. Kee Audio used to carry both the AudioPipe and Bazooka subs although I only see the Bazookas on his site now.
There is no trick to wiring any of these subs to your car. All are dual voice coil so they have the four speaker connectors that go with the four wires in the factory system. You can just cut off the factory wiring connectors and connect to the speakers. Or... some people cut the factory connectors off the original speakers and solder them to the aftermarket speakers so that they will plug into the factory wiring.
My concern is that the problem may not be with your speakers. That would mean that replacing them may not solve the problem. If you are fortunate enough to have a friend with a Firebird that will let you try his speakers in your car (or let you put your speakers in his car) you could determine whether the speakers really are causing the lack of bass.
There is no trick to wiring any of these subs to your car. All are dual voice coil so they have the four speaker connectors that go with the four wires in the factory system. You can just cut off the factory wiring connectors and connect to the speakers. Or... some people cut the factory connectors off the original speakers and solder them to the aftermarket speakers so that they will plug into the factory wiring.
My concern is that the problem may not be with your speakers. That would mean that replacing them may not solve the problem. If you are fortunate enough to have a friend with a Firebird that will let you try his speakers in your car (or let you put your speakers in his car) you could determine whether the speakers really are causing the lack of bass.
05-27-2009, 03:24 PM
#14
This fails to take into account the question of efficiency (sensitivity) of the speaker. If you replace a 2-ohm speaker that has 89dB sensitivity with a 4-ohm speaker that has 92dB sensitivity, there is no drop in volume because the 3dB increase in sensitivity offsets the 3dB drop in power from the doubling of the impedance. This situation is quite common when replacing relatively inefficient factory speakers with aftermarket ones.
...yes, that's what I missed...
WHY would GM wire the Camaro & Firebird's audio systems differently for essentially the same system? Seems like it would be more cost effective to use the same harness...
05-27-2009, 03:43 PM
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There are basically three models of subs that will work well as replacements for the Monsoon sail panels. They are the Bazooka, the AudioPipe, and the Elemental Designs. These are all 6.5" 4-ohm dual voice coil mid-bass subs. I haven't tried the Bazookas but I've heard good responses from those who have installed them. I have used both the AudioPipe and eD subs. The eD subs are very slightly better than the others but they are also deeper and require a spacer for mounting. I'm not sure that the slight difference is worth the extra cost and installation hassles. Overall I've been very pleased with the AudioPipe subs - they are a huge improvement over the stock speakers. Kee Audio used to carry both the AudioPipe and Bazooka subs although I only see the Bazookas on his site now.
There is no trick to wiring any of these subs to your car. All are dual voice coil so they have the four speaker connectors that go with the four wires in the factory system. You can just cut off the factory wiring connectors and connect to the speakers. Or... some people cut the factory connectors off the original speakers and solder them to the aftermarket speakers so that they will plug into the factory wiring.
My concern is that the problem may not be with your speakers. That would mean that replacing them may not solve the problem. If you are fortunate enough to have a friend with a Firebird that will let you try his speakers in your car (or let you put your speakers in his car) you could determine whether the speakers really are causing the lack of bass.
There is no trick to wiring any of these subs to your car. All are dual voice coil so they have the four speaker connectors that go with the four wires in the factory system. You can just cut off the factory wiring connectors and connect to the speakers. Or... some people cut the factory connectors off the original speakers and solder them to the aftermarket speakers so that they will plug into the factory wiring.
My concern is that the problem may not be with your speakers. That would mean that replacing them may not solve the problem. If you are fortunate enough to have a friend with a Firebird that will let you try his speakers in your car (or let you put your speakers in his car) you could determine whether the speakers really are causing the lack of bass.
05-27-2009, 04:26 PM
#16
I don't know for sure but I think it has to do with maintaining the corporate illusion of a difference between the Chevy and Pontiac divisions. The Firebird had different body panels and was more expensive because it included such things as leather seats as part of the T/A package (optional on Z28). I guess they figured a "10 speaker" Monsoon system sounded more impressive (i.e. "we can charge more for it") than the Camaro's 8 speaker system.
05-27-2009, 07:09 PM
#17
It takes ten times as much power to double volume (or one tenth power to cut volume in half).
This fails to take into account the question of efficiency (sensitivity) of the speaker. If you replace a 2-ohm speaker that has 89dB sensitivity with a 4-ohm speaker that has 92dB sensitivity, there is no drop in volume because the 3dB increase in sensitivity offsets the 3dB drop in power from the doubling of the impedance. This situation is quite common when replacing relatively inefficient factory speakers with aftermarket ones.
This fails to take into account the question of efficiency (sensitivity) of the speaker. If you replace a 2-ohm speaker that has 89dB sensitivity with a 4-ohm speaker that has 92dB sensitivity, there is no drop in volume because the 3dB increase in sensitivity offsets the 3dB drop in power from the doubling of the impedance. This situation is quite common when replacing relatively inefficient factory speakers with aftermarket ones.
very nice info here
05-27-2009, 08:10 PM
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So any input on what else it could be? I'm probably going to replace the sail panels anyways, but if that isn't the problem, I don't know what else could be.
05-28-2009, 12:49 PM
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Yeah it's all the way up. 
But I think it could also be the HU. I'm not sure how or why, but I know everything is hooked up correctly back there. I don't know what else it could be so I'm guessing it might be the sail panel speakers.
But I think it could also be the HU. I'm not sure how or why, but I know everything is hooked up correctly back there. I don't know what else it could be so I'm guessing it might be the sail panel speakers.
