gnomee

iTrader: (16)

I forgot to mention Customer Service as a bonus for the pre-made kit also

First I would recommend taking what you spliced in out and twisting the switch wires back the way they were. Make sure everything works the way it is supposed to.

A VERY common mistake is to cut the wrong blue and tan wires. Use your meter to make sure you have voltage coming from one (meaning blue or tan) and the other grounded when holding the switch up or down.

The fact that your relays click from the driver switch and not the passenger switch would make me think you got the wrong wires. Generally if you have a direct short a breaker under the dash will trip and your radio and accessory power will go out for a second.

Hope it helps.. Post back what your results are.

LS1Zedder

I've unhooked my relays and connected the wires back together and the window works again. I dont know what I could have done wrong but I'll take another stab at it tomorow.

jimbo98z

iTrader: (3)

Agreed about the point of having the parts laying around, but not sure what you mean about acquiring parts locally? The only thing there could even be a problem finding is the relays themselves, but even then it's not really an issue.

LS1Zedder: As far as your problem, I'd think that you've tapped into the wrong wires, but it's kinda odd that you're not getting anything from either switch. The only situations where I had no power from either window switch was when the fuse was out.

gnomee

iTrader: (16)

Do you by chance have a list of where could aquire all the parts at ONE store? Thats kinda what I think buying the pre-made is all about. If you have to drive to atleast 2 places, pay tax and end up with a hodge podge pile of parts, that does not seem ethical at all to me.

Where can you get just 28ft GXL Automotive wire? Radio Shack does not even carry it, Assuming you did buy it at Radio Shack or Wal-Mart you have to buy 20ft spools of wire not made to be under your hood at 180+ temps. Not only is it a fire hazard, the higher temps add resistance and on a hot day you may end up just as bad off as you where with factory wiring.

Then what about fuses and a fuse holder, you can't just buy one fuse.

Dongles for the relays? Sure you can buy a bag of terminals. What happens when you sell the car? If you don't care about the next guy thats fine, but if he opens up a electrical taped bundle of wires its just going to be a nightmare for him.

Then butt-connectors, if you have soldier and an iron your fine but if you need these you can't just buy 6.

Have you tried to by exactly 15ft black loom? again if you don't care about the look or the next guy this does not matter, but when I pop my hood or tell someone about something I installed I like to show it off and it needs to look professional.

Just my .02 I won't poke holes at this anymore.

jimbo98z

iTrader: (3)

I already had wiring. That wire is rated for high temps above 180*. You can buy wire that's rated for high temps BY THE FOOT at Home Depot. I personally already had the wire.

You can buy butt connectors in packs of 8, woohoo two extras.

Why would you buy just one fuse? And most people that have cars and do any kind of work on the are going to have some standard 20 amp blad fuses around their garage.

I didn't buy any black loom, I ran it through the stock loom that was alread under the hood. Also, the wire was left exposed in the picture in some places so you could see what route it took. You honestly can't see it now.

Electical taped bundle of wires? This isn't any more messy than the kit is. If I sold the car to someone else, which won't happen, I'd tell them what was in there.

Look, be a dick all you want. This was done to help people that have the resources to do it, and would rather do something themselves than pay someone else and buy a kit. I assumed that a person that was going to try to do something like this on their own would have some prior experience working with electronics, and would therefore already have most if not all of the necessary tools.

If you want to go buy the kit, that's fine, I don't care. It's great being called out by people for doing a write-up and trying to help people.

gnomee

iTrader: (16)

Hey I was not trying to "be a dick" at all I was seriously asking some questions.

You posted this write up as something of value to the average guy wanting to "do this himself". I'm simply saying, buying all the parts packaged and "doing it yourself" versus driving around and picking parts here and there to "do it yourself" does not make any sense to me.

The only difference is driving around to get the parts and no customer service. You still have to take your car apart route, splice, and attach wires.

Also molded plastic dongles that can have the relay's easily changed out of is ALOT less messier then terminals slid on the prongs and taped up.

I am just honestly trying to figure out the real advantage.

Simple as that. I really did not mean to attack you. I apologize for coming off so negative.


LS1Zedder - Did you figure out your issue?

CaMaRo67RS355

iTrader: (75)

how long did it take you from start to finish?

LS1Zedder

I think I figured it out. I used relays that have two normally open contacts instead of no/nc. I didnt realize when looking at the drawings how the motor received ground through the switch. I know I have the right wires cause the relays were energizing. I'm going to pick up the right ones tomorow and give them a shot. Thanks for the help guys.

gnomee

iTrader: (16)

Yeah that will probably be your problem Glad you figured it out. I did not even think about that as an issue. +1 for the premade right there. Easy mistake to make.

jimbo98z

iTrader: (3)

Jesus dude, let it go. I never said this was necessarily better than the kit. It's just an alternative. If you're going to comment in every post on here about how the kit is better, just don't comment. I get it, you would rather buy the kit. I also realize you sell or used to sell the kit or are at least in some way connected with autotrix, which may be an indicator as to why you decided to jump on my about minor issues.

Now if I had said "SUPER CHEAP WINDOW FIX THAT'S PERFECT AND WON'T EVER HAVE ANY ISSUES YAY!" then I could see you being upset, but I didn't. People have had problems with the kit as well that are very similar to what LS1zedder was having. So please, just let it go.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Both of you let it go.

There will always be people who want as close to plug-and-play as possible and they will buy pre-made kits. This is a viable option for many of the reasons gnomee mentioned.

There will also be people who prefer the hands on approach to doing something "on a budget" (kind of the MacGuyver way). This is just as reasonable for those who like doing that sort of thing.

Then there's others like me who just enjoy seeing the ingenuity of our members.

Thanks, both of you, for your comments that allow others to decide which way they want to go. Beyond that...give it a rest. No more sniping or I will have to lock the thread.

LS1Zedder

Well the relay's were in fact the problem. I didnt realize at first glance that the driver's side switch provides the path to ground for the passenger side window, even looking at the drawings in the GM service manual. My first crack at this I used the wrong relays.

At the end of the day, I could have bought the kit. It may have been cheaper and would have done the job just fine. However I would have to pay exchange to the US dollar and shipping to Canada which probably wouldnt have been much. In the end I have supplies left over for my next project, I got to arrange things the way I wanted to due to having lost of wire and supplies. Most importantly I learned some stuff along the way. Thanks to both Jimbo98Z and Gnome for helping me get going again when I was stuck.

BTW the window works great now. Its faster than the drivers side. This was a very cool mod. Special thanks to Jimbo for his excellent write up.

Minacious

iTrader: (1)

As far as this debate is concerned, I am one of the people that likes giving things a go on my own. This isn't my area of expertise, but there is no way I will ever learn this stuff If I simply buy a plug & play kit and connect two ends (Why buy a computer when you can build one is more my realm). I appreciate the detailed write-ups, especially those with images, that let me tackle issues on my own.

With that said, I think I may have spliced the wrong wires. I have everything hooked up per the instructions, and went as far as testing the relays with no fuse installed. The test yielded nothing but the window acting as though I never touched a thing (going up and down painfully slow). So there is obviously something amiss.

I am colorblind, with blue being one of the spectrums I can't discern, so I had my girlfriend help me with the wire selection. She looked at your pictures and chose what she felt best matched.

You can see in these two pictures which wires I have spliced.



Your help would be greatly appreciated.

LS1Zedder

Are you relays clicking when you use the drivers side button? If they are then you used the right wires. They look right to me. If you remove the fuse from your battery wire does the window still work from the driver's button? If it does not then you have the right wire. Another way is to pop out the passenger's side switch and use your multimeter to do a continuity test between the wires you cut and the ones on the connector. The colours are easy to see in the connector because the light brown and light blue are quite noticably different from the dark coloured ones. If you do all these things and they check out then I dont have any more ideas why it would still be slow. You ran a line direct to your battery for power right?

jimbo98z

iTrader: (3)

First off, I just want to say my bad, sorry for being kinda childish about the whole thing.

Mincaious: It looks like you at least picked the correct color wires, but it's difficult to tell from the pictures where you picked up the wires. I don't know if there are possibly wires in the same general area but in a seperate cluster, since a good amount of wiring goes through that general area.

Having said that, it sounds like it's something on the power side, not with the relays.

When you say nothing has changed but the window going painfully slow, how slow is painfully? If it's taking more than I'd say 8 or 9 seconds to go up, you may need a new motor. To give an idea, mine took just under 7 seconds to go up before, and about 3.5-4 seconds after.

jimbo98z

iTrader: (3)

All in all, I would say probably 4 hours, but that was with me figuring things out, then checking and double checking along the way. I'd say you could do it in 2, but I would allow 3.

Minacious

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, there is nothing happening at all. Neither relay is making a peep. It's as though I never put anything in the car.

The reason I was thinking that the wrong wires were spliced is because the window still operates as it did before any of this (that's what I meant when I said painfully slow, and yes, it takes longer than 10 seconds).

Wouldn't the window not work at all if the fuse was not present?

Yes, the power is coming directly from the battery.

LS1Zedder

The passenger's side switch will still work if you pull the fuse out. Its only the driver's button that would be affected. My advice is to pull the passenger's side switch and test for continutiy between the light blue/tan wires at the switch and the ones you cut. If you have continuity you have the right wires. If you dont have a multimeter, another test you can do is pull the light/blue tan wires off your relays and attach a test light or probe between them and ground. Press the up/down buttons on the drivers side. Does the tester light up? If it does then you have the right wires. If you have the right wires then check your connections at your relays. You will need to have the wires from the drivers side in pin 85 of you relay. The wires to the door go into pin 30. Make sure your ground wires go to pins 86 and 87A of both your relays. That's 4 ground wires total. Most importanty make sure your relays have one normally open and one normally closed contact each. I made the mistake of having two normally open. If you dont know what I mean, just compare the diagram on the side of the relay to the one posted on page 1.

Minacious

iTrader: (1)

See, that's the thing, the window could still be controlled from either side with the fuse not present.

I'll pop the control panel and check the wire continuity tomorrow.

Unfortunately, I do not own a multimeter.

Not really sure about the fuse, but here is a shot of the ones I am using.

LS1Zedder

If you pull the fuse and the window still works from the driver's side then you've cut the wrong wires. If you hold the relays in your hand and they are not clicking when you press the driver's button and your relay connections are correct, you've used the wrong wires. You cut the wires where they enter the door right? Check your power mirror and door lock to make sure they are still working. If you are really stuck and just cant figure it out you could re-connect the wires you cut. Then pull the door panel off and cut the wires about 2 inches from the actual switch. Thats what I did cause I found it very tough to see and work under the dash. Then I ran my wires back into the car and mounted my relays where the O.P did. You could also run your power and ground wires into the door and mount your relays inside the door.