Sprk replacements & impedance
06-29-2010, 02:41 PM
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Sprk replacements & impedance Hi fellas,
I have a '94 Firebird with the original Delco 10 speaker sound system. It actually sounded very good until the factory speakers (mid ranges) started to go bad. Here's what I did:
-Swapped my cassette HU with 2000 TA Monsoon HU for CD & CD changer capability. Supposedly the HU internals are the same in terms of signal output.
I got everything to work (with some wiring rework at the connector), but now I am concerned about speaker impedance matching.
Here are my original specs---(all SVC speakers)
Powered by head unit:
Door mids : 4 ohm
Door tweeters : 4 ohm
Hatch mids : 10 ohm
Hatch tweeters : 8 ohm
Powered by amp:
Sails : 3.2 ohm
My question is does my new Monsoon HU operate at 4 ohms in the hatch mids and tweeters? I've read that 4 ohms is the value for the Monsoon system back there.
If so I would like to get this guy for the hatch mid:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...12&ctab=2#Tabs
I figure my stock tweeters back there are fine even if at 8 ohm.
Looks like I will have to go 4 ohm in the sails. Any ideas for this woofer? It should be SVC not DVC.
The Bazooka woofers I've read about are all DVC which is great for the Monsoon amp, but my stock Delco amp is wired for SVC.
Unless anyone knows of a SVC Bazooka 4 ohm 6.5 inch?
I don't want to go lower than factory in terms of speaker impedance, but up slightly would be OK. Kinda hard to find 3.2 ohm speakers (stupid design).
Thanks for any input,
-cool94
PS The hardest part of this work was removing those coat hanger hooks. What a b****!
I have a '94 Firebird with the original Delco 10 speaker sound system. It actually sounded very good until the factory speakers (mid ranges) started to go bad. Here's what I did:
-Swapped my cassette HU with 2000 TA Monsoon HU for CD & CD changer capability. Supposedly the HU internals are the same in terms of signal output.
I got everything to work (with some wiring rework at the connector), but now I am concerned about speaker impedance matching.
Here are my original specs---(all SVC speakers)
Powered by head unit:
Door mids : 4 ohm
Door tweeters : 4 ohm
Hatch mids : 10 ohm
Hatch tweeters : 8 ohm
Powered by amp:
Sails : 3.2 ohm
My question is does my new Monsoon HU operate at 4 ohms in the hatch mids and tweeters? I've read that 4 ohms is the value for the Monsoon system back there.
If so I would like to get this guy for the hatch mid:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...12&ctab=2#Tabs
I figure my stock tweeters back there are fine even if at 8 ohm.
Looks like I will have to go 4 ohm in the sails. Any ideas for this woofer? It should be SVC not DVC.
The Bazooka woofers I've read about are all DVC which is great for the Monsoon amp, but my stock Delco amp is wired for SVC.
Unless anyone knows of a SVC Bazooka 4 ohm 6.5 inch?
I don't want to go lower than factory in terms of speaker impedance, but up slightly would be OK. Kinda hard to find 3.2 ohm speakers (stupid design).
Thanks for any input,
-cool94
PS The hardest part of this work was removing those coat hanger hooks. What a b****!
07-01-2010, 10:17 AM
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Wow 65+ views & no reply. How about specific questions :
1) In your Pontiac Monsoon systems, what speakers if any are fed directly from the HU?
1a) Since my '94 Pontiac is pre-LS1, pre-Monsoon, should I stick with the original design of 10 ohm in the hatch midrange speakers since it IS powered from the HU?
1b) Do the Delco HUs and the Monsoon HUs essentially produce the same power output?
2) Are my sail panel speakers considered "woofer" or "full range"? They are fed from the stock amp. Not sure the difference but what are your experiences with "full range" vs "woofer"?
Thanks.
(Sorry I misspelled Spkr in the title)
1) In your Pontiac Monsoon systems, what speakers if any are fed directly from the HU?
1a) Since my '94 Pontiac is pre-LS1, pre-Monsoon, should I stick with the original design of 10 ohm in the hatch midrange speakers since it IS powered from the HU?
1b) Do the Delco HUs and the Monsoon HUs essentially produce the same power output?
2) Are my sail panel speakers considered "woofer" or "full range"? They are fed from the stock amp. Not sure the difference but what are your experiences with "full range" vs "woofer"?
Thanks.
(Sorry I misspelled Spkr in the title)
07-01-2010, 10:27 AM
#3
1) The only speakers powered directly by the HU in a Monsoon system are the door and hatch tweeters - all other speakers are powered by the Monsoon amp (Firebird coupe only... Camaros and all convertibles have all speakers powered by the amp).
1a) The 10-ohm speakers were what GM considered "extended range". That was because somebody noticed that household stereo systems tend to use speakers with higher impedance. You can use any speaker with at least 4-ohms nominal impedance without risking damage to the HU.
1b) The Monsoon HU is a Delco HU. There is absolutely nothing special about a Monsoon HU other than an extra label on the face. The Monsoon system is all in the amp and speakers. You'll find that a Monsoon head unit is essentially identical to the one you have.
2) The sail panel speakers in your 10-speaker system are subs and are the only speakers powered by the amp. Subs are designed to reproduce only low frequency (bass) signals. Full range refers to speakers that are designed to reproduce the entire audible frequency range (bass, mid and treble).
1a) The 10-ohm speakers were what GM considered "extended range". That was because somebody noticed that household stereo systems tend to use speakers with higher impedance. You can use any speaker with at least 4-ohms nominal impedance without risking damage to the HU.
1b) The Monsoon HU is a Delco HU. There is absolutely nothing special about a Monsoon HU other than an extra label on the face. The Monsoon system is all in the amp and speakers. You'll find that a Monsoon head unit is essentially identical to the one you have.
2) The sail panel speakers in your 10-speaker system are subs and are the only speakers powered by the amp. Subs are designed to reproduce only low frequency (bass) signals. Full range refers to speakers that are designed to reproduce the entire audible frequency range (bass, mid and treble).
07-01-2010, 12:30 PM
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Great reply whitebird, thanks. I just wanted to be sure before making a $ mistake. I will PM you kee when I get home. thx
I think I may try these in my hatch - an 8ohm version to be closer to 10:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-214
The frequency is good and it has the square mounting design.
I'll post back later on how they perform as well as what I can find for a good SVC woofer replacement.
Just not an audio expert and the stock system was usually decent enough for me. It just gets tricky when reading old threads because some people post their knowledge and it is on a different year vehicle or even Camaro instead of Firebird. Or convertible, or not a 10-speaker system. Furthermore, every year seems to have slight differences in values and wiring schematics even for the same model.
In the end all will be well
I think I may try these in my hatch - an 8ohm version to be closer to 10:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-214
The frequency is good and it has the square mounting design.
I'll post back later on how they perform as well as what I can find for a good SVC woofer replacement.
Just not an audio expert and the stock system was usually decent enough for me. It just gets tricky when reading old threads because some people post their knowledge and it is on a different year vehicle or even Camaro instead of Firebird. Or convertible, or not a 10-speaker system. Furthermore, every year seems to have slight differences in values and wiring schematics even for the same model.
In the end all will be well
07-06-2010, 10:51 AM
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OK, back on this,
In your opinion, do you think the Dayton speaker will be overdriven from the HU?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-214
It says 30W RMS/60W max (I think the HU can go to 500W continuous, correct if wrong)
I know there should be some slack to prevent distortion, but how much is too much?
Thx.
BTW Kee Audio, I did send you that PM.
In your opinion, do you think the Dayton speaker will be overdriven from the HU?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-214
It says 30W RMS/60W max (I think the HU can go to 500W continuous, correct if wrong)
I know there should be some slack to prevent distortion, but how much is too much?
Thx.
BTW Kee Audio, I did send you that PM.
07-06-2010, 03:21 PM
#7
The Monsoon amp was originally rated at 200 watts but later advertised as 500 watts for the exact same amp. The 200 watt rating is realistic for RMS power. The 500 watts is an ILS rating for marketing purposes (ILS = If Lightning Strikes). I suppose it could be a peak output rating. That power is divided among eight output channels giving an average output of only 25 watts per channel.
In any case, you don't have a Monsoon amp. Delco head units produce about 10-12 watts RMS per channel into four channels.
In any case, you don't have a Monsoon amp. Delco head units produce about 10-12 watts RMS per channel into four channels.
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07-19-2010, 12:31 PM
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Ok finally got everything in yesterday so here are the reviews in case anyone does a forum search :
Note that these are stock replacements for a non-Monsoon Delco system (1994 Firebird coupe)
Hatch :
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-214
Dayton # ND105-8
The mounts on these are a bit smaller than original although the speaker is the same size. I was able to make it work with two custom revit holes. You have to drill out the old revit to get the original speaker out. This 8 ohm replaces original 10 ohm. Sounds cleaner. Soldering is a must. Overall easy/medium replacement install. There is a 4 ohm version out there for you Monsoon folk. I left the tweeter alone.
Sail Woofer :
http://www.bazooka.com/products/mobi...-(1-5-VC)-P263
Bazooka # WF641.5 (SVC 4 ohm)
Removing the sail panels are a must IMO. Soldering is a must also. I removed the old disconnect clip from the original speaker and soldered a short harness to the new speaker. This way I can reuse the connectors. The mounts on these are just slightly smaller than original. I used a dremel to expand inward the mounting holes on the car. I used a dremel again to cut in slits in the sheet metal to reuse original quick clips at a 90 degree angle from before. They have to be temporarily taped in otherwise the magnet will pull them out. I cut away the cardboard seal on the original and reused them. It was kind of a pain to cram everything in the hole. Also, I used vice grip pliers to bend/remove the original washers from the screws, otherwise they will eat into the speaker foam. This 4 ohm replaces original 3.2 ohm. Also sounds cleaner, but comparable to the stock. Overall medium/hard replacement. They have a DVC version for the Monsoon system.
I have pics of the install for each type on my camera if anyone wants to see them, PM me or email.
I don't remember what I replaced the door speakers with a long time ago, but luckily 4 ohm is actually a standard size so you can find something easily. I'm very satisfied the the new speakers as the stocks were old and wearing thin. Now I have to reassemble the panels.
Thanks Whitebird00 and ls1tech.com for the abundance of information on these cars.
Note that these are stock replacements for a non-Monsoon Delco system (1994 Firebird coupe)
Hatch :
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-214
Dayton # ND105-8
The mounts on these are a bit smaller than original although the speaker is the same size. I was able to make it work with two custom revit holes. You have to drill out the old revit to get the original speaker out. This 8 ohm replaces original 10 ohm. Sounds cleaner. Soldering is a must. Overall easy/medium replacement install. There is a 4 ohm version out there for you Monsoon folk. I left the tweeter alone.
Sail Woofer :
http://www.bazooka.com/products/mobi...-(1-5-VC)-P263
Bazooka # WF641.5 (SVC 4 ohm)
Removing the sail panels are a must IMO. Soldering is a must also. I removed the old disconnect clip from the original speaker and soldered a short harness to the new speaker. This way I can reuse the connectors. The mounts on these are just slightly smaller than original. I used a dremel to expand inward the mounting holes on the car. I used a dremel again to cut in slits in the sheet metal to reuse original quick clips at a 90 degree angle from before. They have to be temporarily taped in otherwise the magnet will pull them out. I cut away the cardboard seal on the original and reused them. It was kind of a pain to cram everything in the hole. Also, I used vice grip pliers to bend/remove the original washers from the screws, otherwise they will eat into the speaker foam. This 4 ohm replaces original 3.2 ohm. Also sounds cleaner, but comparable to the stock. Overall medium/hard replacement. They have a DVC version for the Monsoon system.
I have pics of the install for each type on my camera if anyone wants to see them, PM me or email.
I don't remember what I replaced the door speakers with a long time ago, but luckily 4 ohm is actually a standard size so you can find something easily. I'm very satisfied the the new speakers as the stocks were old and wearing thin. Now I have to reassemble the panels.
Thanks Whitebird00 and ls1tech.com for the abundance of information on these cars.
