LS1LVERBULLET

I posted this in general repairs & maintenance, maybe it's more appropriate here...

Here's the problem: Dash lights, fog lamps, running lights, sidemarkers, and tail lights do not go on with the switch. Brake lights are not working either (tried brakes with the engine off, not sure if it makes a difference).

I have tested all fuses under 40, and visually inspected the 40's and 50's under the hood. My tester isn't big enough for the 40's and 50's. Everything checks out there. I also pulled out the headlight switch and did a quick visual inspection of it,and the back of the fuse box,to see if anything was obviously out of place, nothing to note there.

All lights flash with the key fob.

The next place I would turn is to the headlight switch itself, but I wanted to hear what you guys think before I write the check. I know I saw a couple of other things that can do this while searching, but if anyone knows a way to check the headlight switch, or any of the other related parts, that would help. I just don't want to start spending blindly. Any ideas/input wil be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

-Luke

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Make yourself a jumper wire for testing. This can be just a short piece of heavy gauge wire but it's safer to use one with an inline fuse. In fact, if you buy one of those inline fuse pigtails for a couple of bucks it will work very nicely.

Pull out the headlight switch so that you can get at the connector. Use the jumper wire to connect one of the red wires (preferably the one in position H) to the brown wire. If your lights go on then you know the switch is the problem. If the lights don't go on then use a multimeter or test light to make sure you have 12V at both red wires (the one in pin H is for parking/running lights, the one in pin J is for headlights). That will give you an idea where to start tracing to find out why you're not getting power. The pin H wire goes straight from the TAIL LPS fuse to the headlight switch. The pin J wire comes from a fusible link under the hood.

LS1LVERBULLET

I was hoping you'd pop in here, saw your name a lot while searching.

I was thinking more about the problem, and it doesn't seem like the headlight switch being bad would cause the brake lights not to work. Am I missing something?

LS1LVERBULLET

Well I had an wire with an inline fuse laying around, so I ran outside to test the switch. The red wires are in G and J, there's an orange one in H, so I tested both with the brown wire, and the lights did come on but that doesn't explain my brake light problem. At least I dont think it does, I didn't bother to check because it just doesn't make sense to me.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

My schematics show Camaros have an orange wire from the TAIL LPS fuse in position H of the headlight switch but Firebirds have a red wire there.

I'll have to give some thought to the brake light problem. It could be a coincidence that the brake switch is also bad but that seems unlikely. I'll check some schematics and see if I can come up with another possibility.

LS1LVERBULLET

Thanks a lot Whitebird! Is there a way to check the brake light switch for function? It seems like quite a big coincidence to me too, but who knows. Can you think of anything that would fry both the headlight and brake light switches? I'm not real familiar with electrical stuff, but it seems to me like those things would be protected by fuses, so it seems unlikely, but worth asking nonetheless. As far as I know they're on separate systems, right?

It's pretty irrelevant at this point, but any idea why my wires are set up like a Camaro? It's dark and I'm tired, but I could swear that I saw red (G), orange (H), and red (J). I'll double check tomorrow. In any case, it's more or less curiosity driving me on this one...

It may not be of any consequence, but there was a section of the harness sitting awfully close to the header on the passenger side. The heat wrap wasn't even browned, and the ridges on the plastic shield felt as if they were in tact; I didn't feel desperate enough to start looking for damaged wires at that point, and I'm not even sure what runs through that section so I didn't cut it open. Just thinking ahead, as that would be as good of a place to start as any if it comes down to it.

Sorry for the short novel, and thanks again for the help.

-Luke

LS1LVERBULLET

A little update on the brake lights: Haacer posted up a schematic from the brake light switch to the fuse block on a different thread, it's for a '95 Camaro or Firebird I'm not sure, it's a little different than what I'm working with, but still helped. The orange-always hot wire that runs to the brake light switch and the hazards is not hot (I checked them all for the sake of thoroughness). I hadn't checked the hazards before, but sure enough they're down too. Blinkers work. Do you happen to have a schematic for the connecting wire on the other side of the block, and/or do you know where that one physically runs? Thanks.

-Luke

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

I think I may have found the common link in those circuits. The TAIL LPS fuse and the STOP/HAZARD fuse are both fed from the I/P-2 40-amp mini fuse in junction block #2 under the hood. If you're not getting power to the orange wire at the headlight switch or the orange wire at the brake light switch then that is the most likely common point of failure. Since you don't have a tester for the 40-amp fuse, you could try swapping the I/P-1 fuse in its place (that fuse protects the HVAC system). The only problem is that if you have a short that's causing the fuse to blow, you'll end up with two blown fuses.

BTW, the orange vs. red wire thing appears to be a misprint in the schematic. Another schematic that shows the fuse connections has the wire on pin H as orange for both models.

LS1LVERBULLET

Hmm... I tried something like that the other day, as I saw that, that was someone elses problem when I was searching. I'm hoping that my stabbing in the dark with the switching of fuses allowed me to miss the right combo. I won't be home until later on tonight to test it out, but I'll post up after I get in there. Maybe I'll stop and pick up a multimeter (although I'll have to figure out how to test fuses with it ) or some new 40-amp fuses so I can eliminate the element of uncertainty before I go searching for shorts. Unfortunately for me, it's getting dangerously close to some very tedious hunting. Thanks again for the help, with my knowledge of electrical systems, I'd most likely still be scratching my head at the fuse box if I were on my own here.

LS1LVERBULLET

Well, bad news for me... Turns out I did switch the right fuses to check them. I missed closing at the parts store on my way home, so I rigged up my fuse tester with a couple of pieces of loose wire to fit the larger fuses. All good. I only had time to check the fuses tonight, but I'll get out there soon to look for the short. Could you tell me where that wire originates, and if it changes color at any point? Also I think it's safe to say that since none of the fuses are blown, I can eliminate the possibility of the power being grounded out somewhere, and focus on looking for a break in the wire, correct?

LS1LVERBULLET

I had a few minutes this morning to take a look, but I didn't get too far without a schematic. The red wire coming off of the 40-amp fuse in block #2 has power. Since pulling the fuse cut the power to the wire, I am assuming that it was power out and not in. That tells me the problem is after block #2 under the hood. The TAIL LPS (#5) fuse and the STOP/HAZARD (#1, I believe) fuse directly above it on the block inside the cabin, I'm assuming run off of the same wire, as the TAIL LPS was the only one with a power wire running in, and your schematic showed they had a common link. There is no power running into the TAIL LPS fuse, and none running out of either. Although I didn't exactly take any leaps of faith, I'm not basing any of my findings on anything more than what seems logical to me. As I've learned in the past, my logic isn't always correct logic. I couldn't positively trace the wires by eye, but I'm thinking that they run down the steering column. If I'm correct there, my next guess would be that the wire is pinched in the column somewhere. Basing guesses, off of guesses, off of guesses, rarely gets me too far... In my mind the next most likely scenario is that, there is a junction between blocks that I don't know about. What do you think?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

The red wire goes from the junction box along the left side of the engine compartment, through the large firewall grommet near the steering column, to a large inline connector, and from there to the back of the fuse panel. That connector would be the next place I would check to narrow down the problem. The connector has one side that's a single piece with 48 pin positions and the other side is three separate smaller connectors that plug into it. There are several red wires in that connector - you want to check the one in position B4.

Big side of connector:


Smaller connector that plugs into the center section of the big connector:

LS1LVERBULLET

FIXED!! I would have posted up sooner, but the last few days really got away from me. Like I said, I started poking around looking a short. I checked all the wires and junctions under the dash, and then moved to the fuse block under the hood. After cutting about 6 or 8 inches into the harness I found the short, cut it out and replaced it. The harness was a little bit open, but all of the other wires aside from a little dirt and dust, were fine

HUGE THANKS to Whitebird00 and Haacer!!!!

For anyone who comes across this in a search, here's the link to the other thread that helped me find and fix the problem:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-maintenance-repairs/903086-lights-problem-tail-lps-ip-dimmer-fuses-good-where-do-i-go-next.html