Jason Novak

I want to use the extra channel created by doing the progressive door locks mod to roll down the windows via a DEI 530t - will make it a lot more convenient to take off the t-tops. I just want to double-check two things:

I've previously done the mod by bfranker where I've wired in a 2nd factory express down module for the passenger window, that needs to be removed?

The side effect of the window rolling down when you use the door lock switch only applies to the passenger side switch, correct? The drivers side is normal?

I'm planning on using this tutorial:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/fourthgen/windowmodule/

On a side note, Amazon has the DEI 530t for only 38.29, with free super saver shipping ... I've never seen it that cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/Directed-Elect...8542761&sr=8-1

Twigs

iTrader: (3)

Sounds badass.... subscribing to this to see how it turns out

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

I would think that the second express down module would have to be removed because the 530T wires into the window circuit directly (between the switches and the motors).

Unfortunately, the "second channel" activates when either inside door unlock button is pressed.

Jason Novak

I saw posts both ways about the window switches ... it seems logical that the 2nd channel would only be for the passenger door, unless it's actually unlocking both doors on the 2nd remote press, not just the passenger one? So the passenger-side only information is out of date? I realized one of the posts I was looking at was from you

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....04&postcount=6

As to a relay to make the switches not effect the windows, any specifics on how it should be wired in ... I seem to recall a note that the relay will not work when the car is off. I plan to power the 530t from a constant power, the tutorial recommends it:

"Supplying the window module with constant +12 Volts also allows the window to continue rolling fully up or down after the ignition switch is turned to the off position and a door is opened."

With a constant source will this get around the relay issue when the car is off?

One last question ... there isn't an issue with the pulse length being enough to set the window to go into express mode and come down completely?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Did I say that? I must not have had my coffee yet.

I double checked the service manual and it says "Both door lock actuators lock or unlock when either door lock switch is pressed." This function is controlled by the BCM rather than being directly wired to the switches. The switches and the remote provide a signal to the BCM which then sends a pulse to either the driver's door lock actuator (first press of remote) or to both doors (inside switches). The "extra channel" wire is actually the original power pulse wire to the passenger door lock actuator. The progressive door lock mod connects the passenger actuator wire to the driver's wire so that both doors always unlock together but the original pulse is still sent from the BCM on the cut portion of wire (the "second channel").

To use a relay, you'll need to get a 5-pin Bosch-style relay or a 4-pin normally closed relay (most 4-pin relays are normally open). The idea is to have the relay closed (completing the circuit) when it's at rest and then open (disconnect) the circuit when activated. You connect the output pulse through the normally closed switch contacts of the relay (30 and 87a) and the coil side (85 and 86) to an ignition controlled power source and ground. That way, the pulse circuit is interrupted whenever the ignition is on and the pulse goes through to the 530T only when the ignition is off.

Jason Novak

Thanks, that makes sense. I just want to double-check that I have the relay wiring correct - 30 is the new 2nd channel wire, 85 is 12v switched, 86 is a ground, and 87a out to the DEI?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes, that will work with most relays. However, Bosch has started to put internal diodes on the coil side of their relays so they recommend using 86 for 12V and 85 for ground (until recently the current flow direction across 85 and 86 hadn't made a difference).

Jason Novak

Another thought ... after driving my Grand Am all winter one think I liked is it automatically locked and unlocked the doors when it was taken in and out of park. I saw another thread using a DEI 452t that does something similar based on if the ignition is on or off.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...automatic+lock

Doesn't seem to be real popular using the ignition as a trigger, chances are you won't be getting in or out of your car when it's in gear though.

So question is ... there is a wire someone I can tap into (automatic transmission) so I can use the module that way?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

In an automatic, you can use the "park neutral position switch" (what we used to call the neutral safety switch). It is a grounding switch mounted under the console at the base of the shift lever. It has an orange with black wire and a black with white wire. The orange with black wire gets grounded through the switch and the black with white wire when the transmission is in park or neutral. You could tap into the orange/black wire to provide a ground signal when in park or neutral or use a relay to reverse the signal (provide ground when in gear). Make sure the 452T will work with a ground trigger and that it can handle a constant signal rather than just a pulse.

Personally, I find those automatic locks annoying. My wife's SUV has them and I always seem to be fumbling for the unlock switch or putting it in park to unlock the doors.

Jason Novak

This seems to be turning into quite a project

The 452t (attached manual) can accept a 12v ignition or a ground from an alarm as a trigger, I'd assume that would be a constant. I think you're right that it appears the signal will need to be reversed so it's only grounded in gear.

I always lock my doors when I get in the car, so it's a convenience for me Should make unlocking the doors with the power off triggering the windows less of an issue, too.

On that thought, this shouldn't trigger the windows? The module will go in at the BCM

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

You can install the coild side of a relay inline in the orange/black wire. Disconnect the wire from the neutral switch, connect it to pin 86 of the relay and connect pin 85 to the neutral switch. This gives you a relay that is activated whenever the transmission is in park or neutral. Now, you probably want to use the 12V activation of the 452T (violet wire) because you want the doors to lock when the car is in gear and the ignition is on. So, run a switched 12V wire to pin 30 of your relay and then connect pin 87a to the violet wire of the 452T. (If you try the ground method, the relay will supply ground regardless of gear selection whenever the ignition is off - not what you want.)

No, you will be connecting to the gray "lock all" wire at the BCM. The "second channel" you're using for the window module is for unlock so it won't be affected.

Jason Novak

Ok, one last question hopefully...

The other tutorial for the 452t mentions using the red/black for locking (lock all input) and orange/black (unlock all input) ... is that correct over the gray (output)?

Have all the parts ordered, will be putting them over the weekend if they make it in time...

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Either one will work depending on whether you use a ground pulse or a power pulse. The orange/black wire is the unlock input to the BCM and the red/black is the lock input. Both take a ground pulse. The gray wire is the lock all output - it takes a power pulse to lock all the doors. The corresponding unlock all output doesn't exist in the factory configuration but once you've done the progressive lock mod, a power pulse on the tan wire will unlock both doors.

Jason Novak

One last clarification...

One the 452t I can use the green unlock (-) and blue lock (-) if I go into the BCM inputs orange/black and red/black.

Or the 452t's green/white unlock (+) and blue/white lock (+) to the BCM outputs gray and tan ... are these running into relays further down the line, since the docs say not to connect these directly to the motor?

If either method works ... I guess the only real difference if + lets you tap into one less wire?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes, those are correct but the positive pulses don't go through a relay so you're probably better to use the negative inputs.

AiDRocks

iTrader: (13)

I would like to have this option too. You guys are a little too technical for me though.

Jason Novak

Finally had some nice weather today so I started on the auto lock/unlock with shifter mod, but have run any some problems. I'm pretty sure I've got it wired up as discussed.

I didn't actually hook the into the door locks yet - just testing the wires on the multimeter. They both show a constant 12v, which is strange ... it should just be a <1 sec pulse, and you'd think only over one wire at a time. Unfortunately no troubleshooting guide in the manual.

One other odd thing ... whether the 452t is hooked up or not, whenever I put my foot onto the brake I hear the relay click, and again when I take my foot off. Moving the shift has no effect on the relay, I tapped into the orange/black wire?

Any thoughts?

Relay
30 12v switched
85 to neutral switch
86 from car, was to neutral switch
87a violet wire to 452t

452t
Green orange/black on BCM
Blue red/black on BCM
Red 12v – switched
Black GND
Violet Trigger + to 87a

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

It would appear we're both incorrect here. Both the orange/black and red/black door lock control wires are in the the green connector at the BCM (they're right next to each other). But I didn't notice until I reread the 452T instructions that it generates a pulse on the blue wire after the activation signal on the violet wire stops.

I assume you want the doors to lock whenever you put the car in gear and unlock when you put it in park or neutral and that this should only happen while the ignition is on (you don't want it unlocking in park with the car off!).

Here's what you should have:

Disconnect or cut the orange/black wire going to the neutral safety switch. Connect the end that goes into the car to terminal 86 of your relay. Connect the end that goes to the neutral safety switch to terminal 85 of the relay. Connect terminal 30 to a 12V+ ignition switched source. Connect terminal 87a to the violet wire on the 452T. This will provide power to the 452T when the ignition is on and the car is in gear.

Connect the blue (unlock) wire from the 452T to the orange/black wire in the green BCM connector. Connect the green (lock) wire from the 452T to the red/black wire in the green BCM connector. The red wire on the 452T goes to power and the black wire goes to ground. The other wires are unused.

The green (lock) wire will output a pulse whenever the car is put into gear. Power to the violet wire will continue as long as the car is in gear but the 452T will only output the pulse once, when you first put it in gear. The blue (unlock) wire will output a pulse when you put the car in park or neutral because the power to the violet wire will stop.

I think those connections should work. I've drawn it out and gone through it step-by-step a couple of times although I haven't finished my morning coffee yet. The only concern I have is whether there is enough current on the orange/black neutral switch wire to energize the relay.

Jason Novak

It appears the relay wiring is still the same then? The thing that concerns me is even with the 452t disconnected and out of the picture, I only hear the relay click when I press on the brake petal, and again when I take my foot off ... I'd expect it to only click when I was taking it in and out of park? There does at least seem to be enough current in the orange/black neutral switch wire to activate it.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

That's because it's part of the shift interlock circuit. The orange/black wire to the neutral safety switch is powered by the GAUGES fuse through the brake switch. That's what forces you to have your foot on the brake when shifting out of park.

That means that the blue (unlock) wire will output a pulse when the ignition is on, the car is shifted into park or neutral, and you have your foot on the brake. That shouldn't be too much of a problem since you would normally have your foot on the brake when shifting into park or neutral.