cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

Took friend out for a ride in the bird yesterday and the right rear speaker blew out… so that leaves me with one non-damaged speaker…
In a fit of rage this morning I placed an order with crutchfield. At first I was just playing around dreaming about the stuff I was throwing in the cart until I saw they had a store credit option. So before I knew it the order was placed……
Not the smartest move at this point in time, but one I doubt I will regret.

Here is what I bought- Pioneer AVH-P4000DVD DVD Receiver
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7rX51Ms...=detailed_info

- Pioneer CD-i200 iPod Control Interface
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Ij3CHBn...=detailed_info

- PAC SWI-PS - Pioneer and Sony Steering Wheel Radio Control Interface
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-xrtr4uw...=detailed_info

- Pioneer TS-A1702C 6-1/2"/6-3/4" 2-way Component speakers (two sets)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LaBECJh...=detailed_info

- XTC 6-3/4" pair Speaker Baffles (two sets)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K3hK3L7....asp?i=237XT60

Here is a quick list of stuff I have laying around from past projects
- lots of 12g speaker wire

-lots of 8g power and ground wire

-dynomat

-2 kicker comp cvr 8” dual 4ohm voice coil subs

-extreme 300watt x 2channel bridgeable amp

-lots of fiberglass working stuff

-small power inverter

-200gb external hard drive

I am into mostly rock and techno so I like crisp full sound with light quick deep base, so I think this setup will be nice.

I decided that if im going to go all out on a stereo system I want it to be as clean as possible. That was the main reason I went with the head unit. I love the fact that the Ipod interface will allow me to plug in my Ipod, toss it into the center glove box and control every thing from the head unit.

So here is the plan- Modify and smooth out the radio bezel to accept a double din radio size
- At the same time make a flat plastic block-off plate, that velcros into place to hide the radio (out of
site out of mind.
- Run Ipod cable to center glove box
- bypass the mangled mess of stock monsoon wires and run the 12g speaker wire to the doors and the rear seat sail panels.
-use radio adaptor harness to pull non speaker wires from (power, ground, antenna ect..)
-mount 300watt amp in stock monsoon amp location (wire accordingly)
-fabricate sub boxes in one of two locations
A. Under trunk panels that the stock 4” components were
or
B. Drivers side box where stock sub goes; and remove spare tire and jack, cut passengers side
trunk panel to match drivers and fiberglass up a box in that location.
* Test head unit to see if I can access music from an external hard drive
If so then
- Hide power inverter next to glove box under dash (or next to amp in back if its noisy)
- run power wire to center glove box
- run usb cable to glove box
- fiberglass a docking station for external hard drive.


I will be updating this thread when ever progress is made. I will be showing how to fabricate some of the parts, but will not go into painstaking detail like a how-to (ex remove 3 13mm bolts, unplug x harness ect…)

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

Questions from author time

- Does any one know for sure if you can access music from an external hard drive with this head unit?
I would love this option because it will allow me to take my external drive that I store all my music on with me on the road for those long trips!

- Should I upgrade the alternator to handel the extra power draw from the subs and inverter? Or is it not going to draw that much ?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

You can connect any USB mass storage device up to 250GB capacity (supports only FAT16 and FAT32 formats). In fact, why not use one of the portable USB hard drives that draws its power over the USB cable instead of installing a power inverter? The USB port in the Pioneer provides 500mA of power which should support most portable drives.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

That’s a Great idea.
cut down on cabin noise and simplify things.
I just am not 100% sure that I wont stick an old ps2 in there for those long boring hours before class at school.
That and I would have to go out and buy one of those usb drives where as I have the plug in one just sitting there....
ah well
decisions decisions

pentavolvo

you amping those components or not cause id highly recommend it

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

not at this moment.
I was going to hook them up and if they sound like *** than amp time.
the head unit puts out 50 amp. the speakers are 2-50rms and 250 peak so im not going to hurt them under-powering them. If I can barley hear them Ill upgrade.

dragonrage

Don't use those speaker "baffles." Your speakers need airspace; don't take it away from them. You can cut them up and use them to partially cover the speaker at the top to help protect them from water if you want.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

Yeah it might have been jumping the gun a bit buying those but I was going to look into how much displacement the instructions recomended and see how close those baffels came. I was most worried about the door ones but I figgured if the baffels came close to the correct displacement I might as well order two sets.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

ok all the goodies came in today!
now im looking wire.
As I said im looking for simple and clean and I have never seen any thing that states the stock wire is lacking so I’m starting to dig into pin-out country.
Using the monsoon amp pin out provided by white bird here
https://ls1tech.com/forums/wiring-stereo-electronics/612644-monsoon-faq.html
I have thrown together this quick jumper guide (note the > indicates the need to solder these two wires together)


Fronts
E2 - GRAY - left front negative input> E16 - LIGHT BLUE - left front negative output
E3 - TAN - left front positive input> E15 - DARK BLUE - left front positive output

E1 - DARK GREEN - right front negative input> F6 - DARK GREEN - right front negative output
F1 - LIGHT GREEN - right front positive input>F7 - ORANGE - right front positive output

Rears, there are two options here and I haven’t had time to dig into what one works, I will update when I do. The pin-out never tells for sure what one is the sale panel speaker and what one is the cargo area speaker, so here are both and the test to tell what one works.

REARS

Test conductivity, if F3 is conductive with right mid channel use

E4 - DARK BLUE - right rear positive input> F3 - RED - right rear positive output
E5 - LIGHT BLUE - right rear negative input>F2 - TAN - right rear negative output

E6 - YELLOW - left rear negative input> E13 - WHITE - left rear negative output
E7 - BROWN - left rear positive input>E14 - TAN - left rear positive output


Test conductivity, if F5 is conductive with right mid-channel use

E4 - DARK BLUE - right rear positive input>F5 - DARK GREEN - right rear positive output
E5 - LIGHT BLUE - right rear negative input>F4 - LIGHT BLUE w/BLACK - right rear negative output

E6 - YELLOW - left rear negative input> F10 - LIGHT GREEN w/BLACK - left rear negative output
E7 - BROWN - left rear positive input>F11 - DARK BLUE w/WHITE - left rear positive output

Now what this will allow me to do is to remove the amp and use the stock wire harnesses to install after-market speakers. I will set the stereo up like this for now, but If it requires a little more kick down the road I will wire up an aftermarket amp.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Two comments...

The amplifier pinout identifies the pins used for the rear subwoofers - those are the sail panel speakers. Depending on Camaro or Firebird, you will have either rear extended range or rear midrange (respectively) in the hatch area.

If you aren't planning to add your own amp as you said in the original post, why bypass the Monsoon amp at all? The Monsoon amp is actually quite good for a relatively low-powered unit, it's free (because you already have it), it takes no additional wiring, and the amplification will give you more power than running off the head unit. Like you said, if you find it still needs more, you can add your own amp later without having lost anything in the meantime.

shoemike

iTrader: (25)

maybe you could use a female connector (Scosche GM03B/Metra 70-2001)
and with it re-route the wires from the stock amp connector,
to a new amp(s), then to your speakers through the stock wire harness.
i would think you would need 2 amps for all the speakers and subs though.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

Thank you for the input, below your comments are my concerns
ok this is what I needed the most help on. the pin out identifies the following for rear speakers
E13 - WHITE - left rear subwoofer negative output
E14 - TAN - left rear subwoofer positive output
F10 - LIGHT GREEN w/BLACK - left rear subwoofer speaker negative output
F11 - DARK BLUE w/WHITE - left rear subwoofer speaker positive output
F15 - RED - left rear midrange speaker positive output
F16 - PURPLE - left rear midrange speaker negative output

F2 - TAN - right rear subwoofer negative output
F3 - RED - right rear subwoofer positive output
F4 - LIGHT BLUE w/BLACK - right rear subwoofer speaker negative output
F5 - DARK GREEN - right rear subwoofer speaker positive output
F13 - GRAY - right rear midrange speaker negative output
F14 - WHITE - right rear midrange speaker positive output

basically it tells you you have 3 speakers in the rear
subwoofer
subwoofer speaker
midrange speaker

now what is present in the car is the speaker on the sail panel (we commonly refer to it as the midrange) and two speakers in the cargo panel (I would assume a subwoofer and a midrange). so if one of the two speakers in the cargo panel is the midrange speaker we are left with two choices for what one is the sail panel speaker either the rear subwoofer, or the rear subwoofer speaker. This is why I have two different jumper options depending on the continuity test.

good input here and I thought of the same thing, but as you voiced on your monsoon faq thread
"the sail panel subs get only low-filtered signal from the amp so putting coaxial speakers there will require some rewiring if you want to get anything out of the tweeters. Also, the door speakers are wired as components so you either have to buy component replacements or get coax speakers that can be modified to separate the wiring of the tweeters from the mids (or you can just install coax speakers and ignore the extra channel up front). "

As I stated before, I want to make this as clean as possible and would like to use the stock wire. It seems there will be some extensive work to get a full range to the stock sail panel speaker location, where as if I just do the jumper bit at the amp connector I can re-rout the full range to those locations without having to run any additional wire.

also

I am not 100% sold on the idea of mix-matching the 2ohm, vs 4ohm speakers. I understand that alot of people do this all the time with no issues, but I have horrible luck and I would hate to burn out the head unit.

also #2

as you know the tweeters up front are run directly from the head unit and the subwoofers from the amp. This will cause no end of head scratching for feeble minded individuals as my self (seriously I suck with just about any thing electrical).

final thoughts

The reason I want to make a jumper so badly and utilize the stock wire so much is because this system will not only service my 98 firebird formula, but will be pulling winter duty in my 99 firebird v6 so I want to make this setup as swappable as possible. Which will sorda be out the window if I have to wire up a 4 channel amp any way, but I digress.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

This was exatly the type of thing I was looking for! thank you.
I thought I was going to have to take the femail from an old amp and make the jumper out of that.
I just ordered one!
Yes I plan (if I require more power for the componets) to run two amps. I have that extream 300watt x 2 amp (piece of junk, but works well) to handel the two 8" subs, and I have been tossing around the idea of getting a kicker 200.4 amp to handel the componets (have had good luck with kicker amps) but im trying to keep cost low at this point.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Well, in essence you do have three speakers on each side of the back of the car (four if you count the headunit powered tweeters in the hatch). First, the subwoofers are in the sail panels - the doors and hatch area have components consisting of a midrange and a tweeter. The Firebird sail panel subwoofers are dual voice coil (DVC) which means there are two positive and two negative wires for each one. "Subwoofer" vs. "subwoofer speaker" is just semantics - subwoofers are speakers that only play low frequencies.

So, E13, E14, F10, and F11 all go to the left sail panel subwoofer and F2 thru F5 all go to the right sail panel subwoofer.

For the hatch area...F13 thru F16 are the four wires that provide positive and negative for the two midrange speakers back there. Similarly, E15-16 are for the left door midrange and F6-7 are for the right door midrange.


To be honest, full range speakers in the sail panels don't sound as good as having subwoofers there. But a common solution for the wiring is to eliminate the hatch area speakers and pull their wires forward to the sail panels to provide full range signal there. If you put full range in the sail panels you certainly don't need more full range from farther back in the hatch. Still, I would highly recommend either adding a sub and an amp (say, in a stealth box) or installing subs in the sail panels (such as the 6.75" Bazooka DVC subs that Kee Audio sells). Otherwise, you will have very little bass.

You can always use speakers with greater impedance than stock. Increasing the impedance reduces the current flow making the amp (including the internal amp of the head unit) run cooler. No damage will result. The opposite is not the case - you should never run lower impedance speakers than what the amp is designed to handle. Reducing impedance increases current flow, possibly to the point of burning out the output stage of the amp. So you can replace 2-ohm speakers with 4-ohm but not the other way around. Besides, the sail panel subs are DVC 4-ohm speakers (two 4-ohm voice coils on each one). More than that, the base audio system without the Monsoon amp uses the exact same head unit but runs 10-ohm speakers.

You don't have to worry about the tweeter wiring whether you bypass the amp or not. The tweeter wires are spliced into the wiring between the head unit and the factory amp. In other words, the tweeter signal is already pulled before it gets to the amp connector.

Leaving the factory amp won't affect using the head unit in the other car. Both the Monsoon and non-Monsoon systems use the same 20-pin connector wired with the same pinout. (Aftermarket harness adapters call it a 21-pin connection but the 21st pin only applies to certain other GM models.) Whether or not you have the amp connected, and whether or not the other car has a Monsoon system, they will both use the same harness adapter so the HU will plug in to either one.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

ok it's a bit more clear now.
so what you are saying is every thing labeled subwoofer for the rear is the sail panel speakers, the rear mid-range is the large speakers in the cargo area and the small speakers in the cargo area are tweeters that are (much like the front tweeters) run directly from the head unit pre-amp?

So then my jumper diagram will be either of the two options I figured out, the only difference is what plug in the sail panes will be active.

I wanted to avoid using the stock systems cross over set-up and stick with the components cross over. That and Im about 80% sure im going to be getting a 4 channel amp when the money situation starts getting a bit better. So I still think the jumper is the way to go for now. I do appreciate the suggestions and it does make allot of sense if i wanted to keep the stock amp and if I didn’t mind bypassing the cross over provided with the speakers.

About swapping the systems over. My winter driver is also my bad weather/ out of gas money car. So its not that I think the wiring is different between the two, its just I will be using the v6 car from time to time even in the summer, so I want there to be a working radio in it at all times. So I want to be able to switch back and forth easily without having to do a bunch of soldering each time.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes, that's correct.

Yup...that was my point. As long as you use a wiring harness adapter when you wire up your aftermarket head unit, swapping between vehicles will be a simple plug-and-play setup. It doesn't matter what speakers or amp(s) you have in either car, the head unit connections remain the same for both vehicles.

shoemike

iTrader: (25)

this thread is getting really interesting,
not to hijack but i had an idea of using the 32 pin male and 32 pin female connector
to bypass the stock amp for the sails and doors, keep the hatch wired like stock
and use another amp for the sails, doors and a stealth box.

cudaeh

iTrader: (2)

welp, I started wiring the head unit...
now I need to find a switch that will (after the car is started) ground and stay grounded.
Im thinking either tap into the door switch, or just wire to a ground and put a cheep-o switch in.
I would hate those stupid switches tho..

dragonrage

Why do you want a switch that will ground?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Probably to be able do something stupid like watch videos while driving.

BTW, this forum doesn't support doing that so any answers along that line will be deleted.