H/C ls1 vs my bolt on 10SS
06-25-2010, 11:02 PM
#1
H/C ls1 vs my bolt on 10SS Both 6 speed cars.
2000 z28 M6 H/C 420rwhp mustang dyno (prc 2.5 heads and ms3 cam). He has 3.73 gears also.
Both cars had about a half tank of gas. Both cars had no passengers.
We raced on a local air strip from a 40 roll to about 135.
We raced twice and it was an epic battle. We were pretty much neck and neck with me staying about a car ahead and winning by about 1- 1 1/2 cars to 135.
I previously owned a h/c ls1 f-bod and have also ridden in his many times. I am stunned. I thought for sure I would lose. His car feels faster than mine no doubt but it is not.
Anyway...I am sure most will not believe me...I really cant believe it myself.
Only thing I can think of is that his car is on the heavy side. It is a full option t-top car and my car is about as light as it gets for a 5th gen without serious weight reduction (aftermarket exhaust took some weight off) I also make about as good of numbers as you can get for a bolt on car....but **** I dont know...I dont understand it.
__________________
2000 z28 M6 H/C 420rwhp mustang dyno (prc 2.5 heads and ms3 cam). He has 3.73 gears also.
Both cars had about a half tank of gas. Both cars had no passengers.
We raced on a local air strip from a 40 roll to about 135.
We raced twice and it was an epic battle. We were pretty much neck and neck with me staying about a car ahead and winning by about 1- 1 1/2 cars to 135.
I previously owned a h/c ls1 f-bod and have also ridden in his many times. I am stunned. I thought for sure I would lose. His car feels faster than mine no doubt but it is not.
Anyway...I am sure most will not believe me...I really cant believe it myself.
Only thing I can think of is that his car is on the heavy side. It is a full option t-top car and my car is about as light as it gets for a 5th gen without serious weight reduction (aftermarket exhaust took some weight off) I also make about as good of numbers as you can get for a bolt on car....but **** I dont know...I dont understand it.
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06-26-2010, 02:19 AM
#3
Staging Lane
Good Kill man! I finished that story then read your mods/rwhp then thought it over during my trip to the mens room, and came back positive that it must be a gearing issue: him on 3.23 and you on the stock 3.46 until I reread his mods-- "3.73 gears". Oh well, I'll find the answer to this riddle on my next trip to the throne room. Until then, Kudos on the Kill!
BTW: you got good numbers there no doubt, but I wouda guessed those numbers aren't THAT high. I know of 2 full bolton LS2 GTO's with LS3/L92 heads and stock cam that put down 410 & 420rwhp. The 420rwhp guy had a ported intake. Must have been your underdriven pulley that put you over the top!
Question: why the underdriven pulley and not a cam while you were there?
You know you can throw a small cam on there without worrying about valve springs, right? Just keep it under a .560" or .570" lift?
BTW: you got good numbers there no doubt, but I wouda guessed those numbers aren't THAT high. I know of 2 full bolton LS2 GTO's with LS3/L92 heads and stock cam that put down 410 & 420rwhp. The 420rwhp guy had a ported intake. Must have been your underdriven pulley that put you over the top!
Question: why the underdriven pulley and not a cam while you were there?
You know you can throw a small cam on there without worrying about valve springs, right? Just keep it under a .560" or .570" lift?
06-26-2010, 11:40 AM
#4
Thats a nice thread; i hope a lot of hater/doubters/5.0l fanboy will come on this thread and realize the new 10' SS can be badass when not driven by an old man that dont know how to drive the damn thing!
Good kill OP, very impressive!
Any idea how fast this MS3 car is on the track?
I know youre joking, but theres a lot involve in a camswap; remove every accessories, radiator, drain fluids, gaskets, tune, springs, pushrods length, having the right cam spec so it will not act like crap with the LS3 heads...plus the extra $$$
Good kill OP, very impressive!
Any idea how fast this MS3 car is on the track?
I know youre joking, but theres a lot involve in a camswap; remove every accessories, radiator, drain fluids, gaskets, tune, springs, pushrods length, having the right cam spec so it will not act like crap with the LS3 heads...plus the extra $$$
06-26-2010, 07:00 PM
#7
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Well i was the guy in the other car...
Heres my take-
1st run-was 1-1/2 cars lengths with the 2010 coming out on top
2nd run- was more like me on his quarter panel pretty much the whole race
It seems like he has more bottom end but my Z28 has more mid range cuz when i hit third gear i would reel him in hard, then when i hit 4th he would edge me out again. I dont really understand this either. The first race was wose because he was beeping the horn both times and he got a slight jump cuz of my slow reaction, but the second race was much better.
In my defense my my car is running extremely rich, and it needs a retune as Ultrazls1 can contest to this. But either way i had alot of fun no matter win or lose.
My question is now should i pay the money for a retune it has never ran right since the intial tune from EPP. On start up it seems way to rich and seems like its running on a few cylinders until the others ones pick up. I can literally start it move it slowly across the drive way a couple time and itll be loaded up that fast with decent amount of black smoke coming out.
I know this thing should have way better throttle response, would the tune help this out and possibly make me more horse power when it gets leaned out?
Heres my take-
1st run-was 1-1/2 cars lengths with the 2010 coming out on top
2nd run- was more like me on his quarter panel pretty much the whole race
It seems like he has more bottom end but my Z28 has more mid range cuz when i hit third gear i would reel him in hard, then when i hit 4th he would edge me out again. I dont really understand this either. The first race was wose because he was beeping the horn both times and he got a slight jump cuz of my slow reaction, but the second race was much better.
In my defense my my car is running extremely rich, and it needs a retune as Ultrazls1 can contest to this. But either way i had alot of fun no matter win or lose.
My question is now should i pay the money for a retune it has never ran right since the intial tune from EPP. On start up it seems way to rich and seems like its running on a few cylinders until the others ones pick up. I can literally start it move it slowly across the drive way a couple time and itll be loaded up that fast with decent amount of black smoke coming out.
I know this thing should have way better throttle response, would the tune help this out and possibly make me more horse power when it gets leaned out?
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06-26-2010, 07:46 PM
#8
Well i was the guy in the other car...
Heres my take-
1st run-was 1-1/2 cars lengths with the 2010 coming out on top
2nd run- was more like me on his quarter panel pretty much the whole race
It seems like he has more bottom end but my Z28 has more mid range cuz when i hit third gear i would reel him in hard, then when i hit 4th he would edge me out again. I dont really understand this either. The first race was wose because he was beeping the horn both times and he got a slight jump cuz of my slow reaction, but the second race was much better.
In my defense my my car is running extremely rich, and it needs a retune as Ultrazls1 can contest to this. But either way i had alot of fun no matter win or lose.
My question is now should i pay the money for a retune it has never ran right since the intial tune from EPP. On start up it seems way to rich and seems like its running on a few cylinders until the others ones pick up. I can literally start it move it slowly across the drive way a couple time and itll be loaded up that fast with decent amount of black smoke coming out.
I know this thing should have way better throttle response, would the tune help this out and possibly make me more horse power when it gets leaned out?
Heres my take-
1st run-was 1-1/2 cars lengths with the 2010 coming out on top
2nd run- was more like me on his quarter panel pretty much the whole race
It seems like he has more bottom end but my Z28 has more mid range cuz when i hit third gear i would reel him in hard, then when i hit 4th he would edge me out again. I dont really understand this either. The first race was wose because he was beeping the horn both times and he got a slight jump cuz of my slow reaction, but the second race was much better.
In my defense my my car is running extremely rich, and it needs a retune as Ultrazls1 can contest to this. But either way i had alot of fun no matter win or lose.
My question is now should i pay the money for a retune it has never ran right since the intial tune from EPP. On start up it seems way to rich and seems like its running on a few cylinders until the others ones pick up. I can literally start it move it slowly across the drive way a couple time and itll be loaded up that fast with decent amount of black smoke coming out.
I know this thing should have way better throttle response, would the tune help this out and possibly make me more horse power when it gets leaned out?
I am not sure how much of it is your tune on idle or the fact that you have a MASSIVE cam. The car sure does rip for running rich and it made the numbers it should have for a mustang dyno. I dont know if you should re-invest in another tune or possibly do something else to your car and then have it tuned again.
As for the car length thing. I count 1 car as you being at my quarter panel. By the end of the second race I didnt think you were at my quarter...I started pulling a little bit more as we got to about 130 and then you let off. But yeah...they were very close/fun races.
Im not sure you reeled me in "hard" in the mid range...but I could see you gaining some for sure.
Final note...the cars are seriously just about dead even and I am sure it could come out the other way next time and I wouldnt be surprised. Maybe I out drove you...
06-28-2010, 12:48 PM
#10
Nice runs..
Do you guys have any track results for either car? I would also have thought that the h/c M6 4th gen would have pulled the bolt on 10 SS.
I will say one thing: every GM v-8 that I have owned has gotten stronger with higher mileage. It just seems like the engines "polish" themselves in and the clearances get a bit looser and they end up making noticably better power.
When the 10s first came out there were quite a few less than stellar runs observed on the track. I was never a doubter with regard to the new camaro's potential. Even with more weight it nearly has a 383 stroker's cubes and nice heads to start with.
Do you guys have any track results for either car? I would also have thought that the h/c M6 4th gen would have pulled the bolt on 10 SS.
I will say one thing: every GM v-8 that I have owned has gotten stronger with higher mileage. It just seems like the engines "polish" themselves in and the clearances get a bit looser and they end up making noticably better power.
When the 10s first came out there were quite a few less than stellar runs observed on the track. I was never a doubter with regard to the new camaro's potential. Even with more weight it nearly has a 383 stroker's cubes and nice heads to start with.
06-28-2010, 01:01 PM
#11
Nice runs..
Do you guys have any track results for either car? I would also have thought that the h/c M6 4th gen would have pulled the bolt on 10 SS.
I will say one thing: every GM v-8 that I have owned has gotten stronger with higher mileage. It just seems like the engines "polish" themselves in and the clearances get a bit looser and they end up making noticably better power.
When the 10s first came out there were quite a few less than stellar runs observed on the track. I was never a doubter with regard to the new camaro's potential. Even with more weight it nearly has a 383 stroker's cubes and nice heads to start with.
Do you guys have any track results for either car? I would also have thought that the h/c M6 4th gen would have pulled the bolt on 10 SS.
I will say one thing: every GM v-8 that I have owned has gotten stronger with higher mileage. It just seems like the engines "polish" themselves in and the clearances get a bit looser and they end up making noticably better power.
When the 10s first came out there were quite a few less than stellar runs observed on the track. I was never a doubter with regard to the new camaro's potential. Even with more weight it nearly has a 383 stroker's cubes and nice heads to start with.
It depends who you talk to in terms of the new camaro...or who is driving.
Within a couple months of it coming out 3 guys ran 12.6 or lower.
12.58 was the best stock time last fall. I am sure it may come down even more in the future. The ls3 cars trap from 110-112.
(obviously with good conditions)
I guess thats slow and worthless to everyone these days.
I just listen to it/read it and laugh at the ignorance/denial most of the time.
