Dal1as

Considering your other statements I don't believe you, but what should that matter. I have a low IQ, lol, about 158 or so.

roger

There is an easy way to settle this.

i have brought this up numerous times that we need to round up 5 or 6 bone stock ls1 cars and 5 or 6 bone stock machs and line them up!!every time this has been brought up we get almost no replies.its not like we are to serious or anything.this is just for the fun of it.

doesnt that sound easy enough?

Dal1as

Hard to find stock LS1's or really stock anything anymore. Pretty much anyone who would race them mod them. Hell, if I still lived in the DFW area I'd drive down and race you but I'm not stock.

Skarecrow

I am 100% bone stock. legitmatly. no shitting. paper filter and stock gargantuan lid and everything.

unless you count the Sumitomo HTR+ tires, which you shouldn't considering they're all-weather/all-season performance tires.

I'm in if you guys ever manage to round something up in the eastern half of the united states. that's 1 (one), bone stock LS1 (A4 no less).

MillaTK

Yeah, but Pat, you will be too high to do anything...

Jester

Bone stock A4 Mach 1 on 12/5/03 ran a 13.5@105 at Houston Raceway Park.

Roger, I have a cousin with a bone stock WS6 2002 you need to race. You'll have to do it on radials though... he won't put drs on his stock rear. I've raced him from a 30 mph roll, got 2 lengths on him right away but he caught up at around 110 or so.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

Stock machs are a little slower than stock '98 Ls1s, quite a bit slower than 01s and up..... I destroyed a modded Mach with my '99 Ls1 but I did have a cam at the time. Pulled him quite a bit worse than other stock ls1s Id raced..... They run like the 01 Cobras...

Jester

Since you have a '99, I destroyed one from a 30 mph dig by about 2 car lengths and embarrassed him from 2 digs we raced. It's a driver's race from a dig, but when you go from a roll, there's little room for error unless you miss a gear or something. I'm not saying my Mach is the baddest Mach around, but it's better up to about 110 mph or so compared to an '02 WS6 that's in the family. A stock Mach simply will not pull as hard as an LS1 at that speed.
Fortunately the 1/4 mile has passed by the time the WS6 could get ahead of me. My motor is stock, but I have a few goodies with me...

MA1384

Thier pretty damn close cars, in a normal street race, it will be up to the driver. On the track however, an SS Camaro or WS6 T/A will take a mach 1, but not by much. Just simple logic will confirm this. Anyone who knows **** about cars knows about the LS1, its just an overall better, more powerfull motor than what ford puts in thier stangs. The powerband is much wider, and torque curve is much flatter. Its also known that GM drivetrains are better at getting power to the ground than fords (Motor Trend dynoed a 2002 SS, and a 2001 cobra (Dec. '01) , 325 hp for the SS and 320 for the Cobra, the SS dynoed at 268.4 rwhp and the Cobra at 240.5 rwhp). In that same issue the SS beat the Cobra by .2 seconds to 60, and .3 seconds in the quarter @ 4 mph faster. Can the Mach 1 really be that much better than the Cobra?


And we cant compare times from two completely different test. This comparo was at the same location (same elevation) with the same driver. These times your all spittin out come from different locations, w/ different drivers, some track tested, some road tested (tracks will always give better times w/ stickier pavement) and different tempuratures. Anyone who knows anything can admit that 66 more cubes in a more powerfull motor and a lighter car ( 02 SS weighs 3411, 03 Mach 1 weighs 3471), not to mention a lower geared 6-spd vs. a 5-spd, will be faster. There is nothing that gives a mach 1 the edge over an ls1 f-body.

Jester

You are correct about the LS1 being more powerful than the 32VDOHC in the Cobra and Mach 1. The Mach has about 15 more hp than the '01 Cobra has, making the Mach better than the Cobra. There's too many Cobra owners who are now Mach owners who will tell you that the Mach is more powerful.
Gearing IS better for us vs an SS or WS6. We have a 3.38 first gear mated to a 3.55 in the rear which gets a Mach off the line better. I'm not for sure what the first gear is for you guys, but I know it's not near the 3.38 ratio we have, plus, the LS1's axle ratio is 3.42...close to but not a 3.55.
Anything after the 1/4 mile goes to the LS1 hands down, that's why I work hard getting 1.6 and 1.7 60 ft times to spring ahead and stay ahead.

MA1384

ok, first off, Mach 1's put out 305 bhp and 320 lb-ft, pre '03 cobras put out 320 bhp and 315 lb-ft. Giving it 15 less hp not 15 more, w/ 5 more torque at a lower rpm, this is what ford wanted, more low end torque to give the mach 1 a more muscle car feel.

Also, a stock vette (not Z06) tuns 13.1 quarters, and stock '03 cobras w/ 390 bhp, run 12.9's. how can this justify low 13's for the mach 1's on the street? maybe at a sticky track with non-stock tires and professional drivers, but not on the street. peroid.

Jester

Where do you get your numbers? Motor Trend or Car and Driver? That's why I don't read those mags, they can't drive. Mach 1's are underrated in their hp numbers, a little research and you'll find out. I dyno'd at 288 rwhp stock, giving me about 335 at the flywheel. My goal for this car was 12.9xx's for this car stock, however that ended when I snapped an axle at the track. The mods began... My best before I broke was a 13.337 @ 105, which is a typical try for a Mach 1 with a good driver.
A friend of mine in New Orleans ran a 12.88 on stock tires at No Problems Raceway with his stock Mach1. They have a very good track and he was on radials. 13.1's are not a dime a dozen for Mach1's, but there are two in my area doing it now, one of them is on this forum.
Enjoying the site!

MA1384

Ok first off, where do u get this supposed "underrated" info? Think for one second, if the mach 1 really puts out 335 hp, then why would ford underrate it to 305? the 30 hp difference wouldnt make any difference in any insurance costs. Does this also mean that the new supercharched cobra is underrated too, or does ford just suck and making power by only getting 55 more hp from an eaton blower? This really just doesnt compute.

Im not bashing mach 1's, thier a great car, cheap, fast and great lookin. But toe to toe, the SS's or WS6's are capable of more. Where do u get ur info? None of this ur saying makes any sense. even 335 hp wont make 13.1 quarters in a 3400 lb car, not on the street, esspecially w/ the 245/45's that come stock on those. My 275 hp LT1 has trouble hookin up with 245/50's. A stock mach 1 5-spd on a good day should do a 13.5 @ about 104 tops, any more is pushin it. A 13.1 quater would call for under 5 sec. 0-60 runs, now dont even start tellin me that these will do 0-60 in the 4's, cause they dont. 5.1-2. Even that, a stock WS6 will do 5 flat all day long, and after 60 is where those LS1 cars really shine. Like i said before These are both great cars, and very close performance wise, but the f-body is capable of faster.

Jester

I'm not sure why Ford went with the lower numbers on the Mach. Real numbers (even though a dyno is only a tuning tool) are what I'm dealing with here from a Dynojet Dyno using WinPep 7. With 335 hp at 15% drivetrain loss = 285 or near to what I dynod at. Most Machs dyno in the 280 range.
I'm not much on the 0-60 times since the racetrack doesn't have a device that measures that. Have you been to a track to see these cars run? How about yours? What does it run? You say a stock Mach "should" do 13.5@105 and you're right they can. But a better driver can turn the clocks down into the high 12 range with good prep, and often the 13 second range. For that matter, the same should go for the LS1.
You say that Mach 1's are great cars, but you have trouble believing what I say. I don't want to keep rambling on and make this thread boring, but Mach's are a contender in the 1/4 mile along with the LS1. But as far as all the 0-60 times, I'm not so sure, I don't read those mags...
Maybe someone here would like to make a challenge at the track just for proof?

Jester

BigBronco knows!!

roger

MA1384.....man you need to get out more and see what some cars are running.i wont get into an argument on weather the cars are underrated or not but most mach dyno in the 280 range and the cobras dyno in the 370 range.

as for times my mach ran low 13's bone stock at a weight of 3590 at the time,what kind of power does it take to do that fromn your calculations? also with just drag radials bolted on my car went high 12's and i am not a good driver just a little better than average.Jester can vouch for my times.its been said a million times on hear that a race between a ls1 car and a mach is a drivers race.i have to agree with this statement for the most part.

also i have yet to loose to a stock ls1 car,will it happen?....maybe but i am still waiting.i have asked previous times before that if anyone in the houston atrea wants to race i am up for it.

mach1killer

what is this then
stock mach1 vs stock 01 cobra (with 320 bhp and 315 lb-ft)

http://home.kc.rr.com/kchof/01%204v%20vs%2003%204v.jpg

mach 1: 331hp and 358lbs/ft at flywheel asuming 15% drivetrain loss
is just simple math man
why they were underrated??? i don't know and i don't care, all i know my car went 13.4 stock and high 12's with $1000 in mods. try to do that with your lt1

and for the records a 03 cobra is putting at least 420hp at flywheel, since the average would be 360rwhp

Skarecrow

i find it ammusing that a guy who drives an lt1 (slightly underrated), and is posting on a forum for ls1s (significantly underrated), cannot understand why ford would underrate the mach 1 or the cobra engines.

plus, does the '99 cobra debacle ring a bell? ford learned their lesson from that one.

WhiteTXMach

Some people are just born ignorant? Seems like he doesnt want to listen to anyone but the magazine publishers. Shoot, I need to drive my **** to houston, that track is eleventy billion times better than SAR

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

Well the trap speed in your sig would not have competed with my 99 from a roll or a dig. But like I said I had a cam at the time. BONE STOCK my 99 would still have pulled your mach from a roll as it trapped 108mph....though very close.