ChopperDoc

Oh you should of seen the "episode" where I helped a friend out from work change his 07 Mustang GT (4.6) heads. Even he now understands the complete and utter bullshit ford engineers thought up for us mechanics. The fact is took almost a full day, and damn near an engine pull to get the GD headers off says something. The whole project took 3 in total. THREE DAYS. My wife also wants headers on her car. I told her she is going to see what the hell I mean soon enough lol. I had to strip EVERYTHING off the thing just to pull the heads. What a shitshow. He asked me how long it takes on an LS for headers. I told him 30 minutes, plus warmup and retorque. Heads, probably about a day, and DONE. He suddenly was a little less happy with his own Ford at that point. Chevy has a few small items like that too, but nothing on that level. Just to do a timing chain on the new power stroke, you have to pull the trans, cab, oil pan, and drive shaft. Yeah, and I wish I was making that up.

ChopperDoc

I should say, NOTHING on a Ford takes 30 minutes. lol.

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

All truths. First time I helped with cams on a 4 Valve mod,it was a nightmare. I think the Ford stuff in the late 90s early 00s were the worst especially the trucks sans the 7.3 Diesels. The first 4.6 SOHC made Ford money and was used in many different applications which was a smart move business wise. Power wise was terrible though. I still remember the 99 Cobra disaster like yesterday..

islander033

Changing spark plugs on a 4v mod motor is pretty fast.

snake95

Yeah I mean SBF cars also, nothing takes that long to do.

ChopperDoc

Because the plugs on the 4.6 are deep in the head, they actually broke off and stripped out... That was the reason for pulling the heads in the first place on my buddies 07 GT. You can't see them at all. It's complicated design for what it is. LS plugs stick right out the side and are VERY easily accessible as far as visually, and with tools beyond just a socket. Impossible to access on most ford OHC engines if they seize in there, which seems to be relatively common among folks I know with those motors.

Good trick is to fill a oiled down socket with JB weld, then place it over the plug and let it cure overnight. It should come right out (the next day lol) if it was stripped. I know these tricks because I've had to fix more than one engine since I was a teenager... Many years later, have a pretty righteous hate for Ford engineering that is DESIGNED to FORCE you to take it to a dealer. You know how much it is just for a wedge to lock the chain/cam on a 4.6? $115. Yeah. And a pair of vise grips does the job just the same, but Ford is ALL about selling these special tools to work on their ****. Technically to do a head on a 4.6 you need to spend about $400 on tools, according to the actual instructions, from Ford. I spent nothing. **** that.

Also, since I prefer Gm products, I am very useful on a site such as THIS one (since it is literally called LS1tech, duh) given my experience with swaps, general maintenance, tuning, wiring, and so forth. I tend to stick to helping people with their cars and issues than arguing about what engine is better and stock this and that, and other bullshit that really doesn't help ANYONE at all. Just those that argue it, I guess. I don't see a lot of the people here arguing over on the PCM section helping people figure out wiring and tuning and a plethora of other issues. Nope. Just here. Arguing. That's just my 2 cents though.

Take it or leave it, but this is a GM site, designed with GM engines in mind, in order to HELP GM people build GM cars. Ford has forums too...

ChopperDoc

Older Ford motors aren't that bad, for the most part. Just the same as older GM, dodge, and so on. I'm not talking about small blocks from 30 or 40 years ago though. I'm talking about everything from 2005 and up (for Mustangs at least), to be clear.

islander033

No idea what chopperdoc is yammering on about.

I only stated a fact and it spurred some sort of novel. Wow and lol

ChopperDoc

Because you don't work on cars. You pay other people to do it, change your plugs and then brag about how easy your car is to work on.

islander033

LOL....oh really?

What makes you say that?

JC316

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah. The Miata had that same issue in 99 if I remember right.

Then you have absolutely no clue how to work on a Ford. I literally swapped the engine in my 05 in two days. That's including an 80 mile trip to get the new one. I can change the heads in under 5 hours if I had to. I don't know what LS you're talking about, but I seriously doubt you can change the headers on an LS fbody in 30 minutes, especially if the exhaust has never been off the car.

He's talking about the 3 valve spark plugs, which are are poorly designed plug. The trick is to not break em off in the first place. Seafoam the engine, warm it up, then hit the plug with an impact. Most of that time, that will get the plug out without breaking it. Even if you do, Ford makes an extraction tool to remove it without screwing up the head.

islander033

Funny that I specified a 4v and he freaked out over it. Lol

I知 starting to question chopperdoc痴 experience with wrenches and such. Wow

JC316

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, 4V engines are stupid easy to change the plugs on. 2V engines are middle of the road thanks to how close the fuel rail is.

ChopperDoc

I wasn't the one that snapped the plugs off in the first place. I was talking about removing the hardware on the headers. It takes under 30 minutes to have the headers disconnected because the bolts/studs are between the pipes, not over and under like on Ford. That's one of the worst designs I've seen for that, because with regular tools, its a real treat to get to the passenger side studs over the engine mount.

I was pretty **** faced last night so I had to read what the hell I was talking about too. But if you have to know, I will attempt to keep it short since I see you don't like reading. This is a very shortened version of my background.

I'm a A&P certified helicopter mechanic. That's actually what I do for a living. There are some shitty designs on blackhawks and hueys too. I can recognize bad engineering when I see it. There are some things on a blackhawk that really **** me off too. I've built a list of cars through the years, and fixed god knows how many. I do most of that free, or for beer. For tuning, most of the time I charge just cost.

My experience with wrenches? Well, started off as a regular mechanic on UH-1H's, got to the point where I was the unit maintenance trainer, then a flight guy, then I transitioned to hawks since hueys got phased out. Didn't know my way around that aircraft for a while, but learned. Then ended up as phase team lead, maintenance supervisor, flight guy again for many years, still turning wrenches though, because you don't stop doing that just because you fly. Eventually was the flight company platoon sergeant, then went to quality control to work as a TI (Technical Inspector), still flying though. TI's sign off any work done on the aircraft and determine if the aircraft is flight worthy.

Then I became the unit go-to for downed aircraft recovery, mission planning, built 2 push packages with 5.5 million of parts in each, which spent all of 13, 14, and 15 deploying around Europe supporting missions. I was the most deployed person in the brigade, when I spent 8 of 12 months in 8 different countries supporting missions and keeping aircraft fixed. I personally accounted for 41% of the battalions hours for 14, literally. My eval from that year placed my #1 of 12 technical inspectors, easily, because I also performed maintenance supervisor role, as well as parts, production control, and still flew as a crew chief.

After all that fun, and being regarded as the best mechanic/TI in the battalion, I became an instructor and I got rated as #1 of 149, again because I am really ******* good at my job. I taught hydraulics and flight control systems for the majority of this time, which is also the hardest block by far, because I had to teach rigging. I don't know if you've ever been a maintenance instructor, but I'll tell you you have to know what you're talking about, and have a firm understanding of the systems. Or your credibility gets fucked over on the first few questions the class has.

I don't know everything, and I don't pretend to. I've worked on hundreds of cars over the years and I have my reasons to dislike Fords. They just seem to make **** more difficult than they have to be in many cases. GM has it's quirks too, but I will say many of the tasks are far easier on the LS side. Pushrod motors are just simpler. I honestly kind of miss just a good old small block with distributor, GM or Ford. Those were simpler times.

Although it is pretty damn cool to "work" on my car and never leave my seat to adjust timing, fuel, and everything else the PCM controls. Pretty neat, but much more complicated. Every car is this way now, and has been for over 20 years.

So cars are a hobby for me, similar to guns. I put lots of time and money into both of those things, but oddly enough, still use those skills at my real job too lol.

Currently working as an advisor in a foreign military sales mission, which is strategic level stuff. I influence decisions made at the highest levels through my maintenance background and experience. I don't make the decisions, but that's probably because the contracts we support are over 12 billion dollars, so I guess it's a few bucks.

Now you know something about me. I hope that wasn't too much reading.

ChopperDoc

I also find it interesting, that most aftermarket mods actually use aviation specs, especially in racing parts. When I recognize the hardware it makes me chuckle, because it's just NAS bolts with lockwire holes or cotter pin provisions lol. BMR, Wilwood, and ARP are prime examples. Everything is fine thread 28 TPI minimum, and grade 8 minimum. So having an aviation background, it's funny that we bring our cars closer to NAS specs than we do SAE when it comes to racing parts that cost stupid money. I'd be lying if I said that my car doesn't have some aircraft parts on it too lol.

islander033

I’m not merican but I’ll thank chopperdoc for his service.

ps. I’m glad that we can agree that changing plugs on a 4v mod motor is super fast and easy.

ChopperDoc

Haha. I just have my tastes in vehicles like all of us do. I happen to prefer GM, that's all. I don't hate on others for their opinions, and as mentioned, help folks work on everything, regardless difficulty or time required. My wife hates it lol. Always seem to have someone "bringing something by" lol. Even had it happen when I was on leave a few months ago.

No need to thank me for a job brother. It's just a job, just like anyone out there. It puts food on the table and that's all that matters. And I enjoy doing it. I tried to leave out the part about military, but its pretty tough when explaining the job. I see you picked up on that. Getting close to retiring, so looking forward to turning hobbies into more. Already shopping for dyno's actually lol.

Where are you from then? I've been a lot of places, but nothing on the eastern side of the globe so far.

islander033

I’m out of western Canada, by Calgary Alberta.

I actually own more GM than Ford, I’m good with either depending on the purpose and the deal.
3 vehicles with terbo and one blower+nawz. I’m not an NA guy. Lol

ps. Good luck with your future ventures

ChopperDoc

I guess I could of looked that up lol. It's nice up that way. I'm from farther west originally, WA state. Used to go up to Vancouver BC before the passport requirements.

Good stuff though. Love some boost, just don't have anything performance wise pushing it, yet. The dirtymax has a turbo but that don't count lol. Wife wants a blower for the stang, so that might happen down the road. Might also throw spray at the camaro if I ever get serious about racing. For now I just enjoy fixing problems, which is what I enjoy about mechanical anything. Makes me think, and I like a challenge. Sometimes I'll add a mod that I know will create problems, just to figure it out lol. Honestly, most mods are really just bolt on problems, especially for tuners. That's why I also dig forums because I learn a lot from others, and like to share my knowledge if I know something that can help someone.

Thanks for the luck, I'll probably need it lol.

JC316

iTrader: (1)

Ok, makes a little more sense now. Usually what I do with a mod motor with stock manifolds is leave them on the head and yank it as a combo. Headers make it trickier for sure, it's usually a shitload easier to just drop the K member and remove them. For reference, just get one of these for dealing with the 3V spark plugs.


Being a helicopter mechanic is great, but those skills don't necessarily translate to automotive. I've got dirty tricks up for sleeve for just about every brand of car, simply because I've worked on them for so long. Hands down, the worst engineered and hardest to work on vehicles on the planet are Nissan's. It's like they identified the easy way, then intentionally did the exact opposite. Every edge is literally razor sharp, nothing is accessible, and you have to disassemble half the engine to get to ANYTHING.