2006 EVO IX RS vs. 2001 Camaro Z28 SS
04-16-2006, 09:38 AM
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2006 EVO IX RS vs. 2001 Camaro Z28 SS I've been offered by an owner of a 2001 Camaro Z28 SS (6-Speed) an interesting wager. He wants to race me, but there is a catch, we can only spend $1,000 worth of modifications on our cars. The parts must be new, never used on a car before. This wager has come from a long standing debate me and him have been having on which car is more responsive to bolt ons. I tell him my car is turbo and he says his car is a V8 and there is no replacement yada, yada, you get my drift. I agree with him, in the end a fully modded V8 is tough to beat, but in my opinion with minor bolt ons, the EVO is just as responsive if not more. The rules are-
Only Pump Unleaded Gas (100oct is the max)
Drag Radials allowed and are considered a modification
Installation costs not included in price of mods
No juice, laughing gas, what ever you want to call it
Here is going to be my mod list-
Works Drop In Air Filter ($100)
Logic Performance Turbo Back Exhaust w/ Test Pipe ($560)
Joe P. MBC@21PSI ($40)
HKS Super AFR ($100), this is actually a discontinued item, I bought it brand new from a shop, so far I've been calling around trying to see if a shop could tune my EVO with this product, having little luck, but one shop (Tuning Technologies) says that they may be able to do it, keeping fingers crossed.
Costum Dyno Tuning from Tuning Technologies ($165)
Total for me is $965
With these modifications I hope to put down 310-320AWHP down on 91 octane pump gas, with a 100oct I hope to put down 340-350AWHP. If my car does make 340-350AWHP it should be trapping 114-115mph. I haven't excepted the wager yet, he wants to do it for $300, but that's a lot, I'm thinking more like $150, I mean if they can't tune my car I may be f*cked! What kind of mods could he get for $1,000. Oh yeah this guy is my supervisor, LOL. He is a very cool supervisor, a true car enthusiast (well for American Muscle). He just bought the SS for his daily driver, also owns a very fast Chevelle (unsure of the year), fastest car I've ever been in. Haven't agreed on where or how we should race, he doesn't want to go from a dig (I think he doesn't want to spend money on DRs, smart move). But I think we should go from a dig atleast once, and I'd like to do this at the drag strip and then afterwards go from a roll. So we will see. So what are my chances? Should I except the wager? What could he really do to his car for $1,000?
Only Pump Unleaded Gas (100oct is the max)
Drag Radials allowed and are considered a modification
Installation costs not included in price of mods
No juice, laughing gas, what ever you want to call it
Here is going to be my mod list-
Works Drop In Air Filter ($100)
Logic Performance Turbo Back Exhaust w/ Test Pipe ($560)
Joe P. MBC@21PSI ($40)
HKS Super AFR ($100), this is actually a discontinued item, I bought it brand new from a shop, so far I've been calling around trying to see if a shop could tune my EVO with this product, having little luck, but one shop (Tuning Technologies) says that they may be able to do it, keeping fingers crossed.
Costum Dyno Tuning from Tuning Technologies ($165)
Total for me is $965
With these modifications I hope to put down 310-320AWHP down on 91 octane pump gas, with a 100oct I hope to put down 340-350AWHP. If my car does make 340-350AWHP it should be trapping 114-115mph. I haven't excepted the wager yet, he wants to do it for $300, but that's a lot, I'm thinking more like $150, I mean if they can't tune my car I may be f*cked! What kind of mods could he get for $1,000. Oh yeah this guy is my supervisor, LOL. He is a very cool supervisor, a true car enthusiast (well for American Muscle). He just bought the SS for his daily driver, also owns a very fast Chevelle (unsure of the year), fastest car I've ever been in. Haven't agreed on where or how we should race, he doesn't want to go from a dig (I think he doesn't want to spend money on DRs, smart move). But I think we should go from a dig atleast once, and I'd like to do this at the drag strip and then afterwards go from a roll. So we will see. So what are my chances? Should I except the wager? What could he really do to his car for $1,000?
Last edited by BSmonitor; 04-16-2006 at 09:53 AM.
04-16-2006, 09:55 AM
#3
Well for 1000 he could get some headers, air lid,cutout possibly cam.He would hit likely around 360 with headers,lid and cutout. Buddies hit 320 just on near stock engine with just a loudmouth. They are underated factory.
380 to 400 is doable with cam added into the above and think you said used parts allowed. he should be in the 12s.
Your evo being awd should have huge launch advantage unless he also spends some of his budget on drag tires. So make a decent race...Bet on him to lose off the line unless he gets those drag tires but likely run you down top end of track .A lot depends on altitude ,altitude kills na cars power. Buddies heads/cam/headers /bolt on SS does like very low 12s on nittos and hits around 116mph at our 1900 feet altitude.He ran closer to 120 at sea leve track.
380 to 400 is doable with cam added into the above and think you said used parts allowed. he should be in the 12s.
Your evo being awd should have huge launch advantage unless he also spends some of his budget on drag tires. So make a decent race...Bet on him to lose off the line unless he gets those drag tires but likely run you down top end of track .A lot depends on altitude ,altitude kills na cars power. Buddies heads/cam/headers /bolt on SS does like very low 12s on nittos and hits around 116mph at our 1900 feet altitude.He ran closer to 120 at sea leve track.
04-16-2006, 09:57 AM
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I think it should be dig and roll and average them somehow.
$100 for an air filter? No.
Questions:
IS the Evo's Ecu tuneable, so that the dyno shop can just hook in their WB02, see what you AF curve is doing, an the reflash the ECU? I think thats the case, but I want to be sure...
The AFR is a fuel pressure regulator correct? I dont see the need. Freind was running 21 PSI boost on a Walbro 255 pump on a 4G63 last night with a stock FPR and it was excellent, no knock, good FP.
If you just need a tune, reflashing the Ecu would be best, second option being an SAFC II. Thats about $250 though.
www.bushurracing.com
I would consider a nice port job on the turbo/02/mani instead of the SAFC or AFR, it would be a big help.
He is going to nitrous it and throw a lid and cut-out I bet, and you might be @#$%ed. About 450WHP very possible in that case. Launch the hell out of it. The juice is always the LS ace on the hole.
$100 for an air filter? No.
Questions:
IS the Evo's Ecu tuneable, so that the dyno shop can just hook in their WB02, see what you AF curve is doing, an the reflash the ECU? I think thats the case, but I want to be sure...
The AFR is a fuel pressure regulator correct? I dont see the need. Freind was running 21 PSI boost on a Walbro 255 pump on a 4G63 last night with a stock FPR and it was excellent, no knock, good FP.
If you just need a tune, reflashing the Ecu would be best, second option being an SAFC II. Thats about $250 though.
www.bushurracing.com
I would consider a nice port job on the turbo/02/mani instead of the SAFC or AFR, it would be a big help.
He is going to nitrous it and throw a lid and cut-out I bet, and you might be @#$%ed. About 450WHP very possible in that case. Launch the hell out of it. The juice is always the LS ace on the hole.
04-16-2006, 10:44 AM
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Forget a $100 filter, intakes on Evos arent worth much, maybe a K&N droping at the most
Exhaust looks OK.
MBC is OK. With 100 octane you should be able to run 24psi or so.
Skip the HKS and custom tune and go with a Dynoflash.
This should be alittle over $900 and be worth low 12's or high 11's depending on how well you can drive and racing conditions.
Exhaust looks OK.
MBC is OK. With 100 octane you should be able to run 24psi or so.
Skip the HKS and custom tune and go with a Dynoflash.
This should be alittle over $900 and be worth low 12's or high 11's depending on how well you can drive and racing conditions.
04-16-2006, 01:05 PM
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I would love to go with a Mail in tune, but that would put me over the limit.
Yes the ECU is tunable, but a very good quality tune can be a little bit more expensive than what I can fit under the limit. Tuning with an AFC (or AFR) is the least expensive way, and usually yields lower gains than a regualr flash. But Hopefully it will be enough to me over 300AWHP.
The drop in air filter is already on my car, so nothing I could do about that. Unless I took it out and went back to the stock filter and that would free up another $100, but I like the Works filter. I gained 1mph worth of trap speed with it.
Damn he might get me with the cutout, I was thinking he was going to go with a full exhaust, DAMN. I even recall he mentioned something about this, but I wasn't paying attention. I don't think Headers and Cam will fit under $1,000.
Depending on my tune, I may run a little more boost. As of now even a Boost Gauge puts me over the limit, that sucks.
Parts must be new (never used or bought buy anyone else). Only reason I can use the Super AFR because I got lucky, HKS doesn't make Super AFRs anymore.
This might be closer than I thought, I got thinking to do, $300 I won't wager for that much, but for $150 I will. I also want to go from a dig and a roll, not just a roll like he wants to do. My best 60fts are just average (1.8s) so it's not a huge advantage for me from a dig.
Yes the ECU is tunable, but a very good quality tune can be a little bit more expensive than what I can fit under the limit. Tuning with an AFC (or AFR) is the least expensive way, and usually yields lower gains than a regualr flash. But Hopefully it will be enough to me over 300AWHP.
The drop in air filter is already on my car, so nothing I could do about that. Unless I took it out and went back to the stock filter and that would free up another $100, but I like the Works filter. I gained 1mph worth of trap speed with it.
Damn he might get me with the cutout, I was thinking he was going to go with a full exhaust, DAMN. I even recall he mentioned something about this, but I wasn't paying attention. I don't think Headers and Cam will fit under $1,000.
Depending on my tune, I may run a little more boost. As of now even a Boost Gauge puts me over the limit, that sucks.
Parts must be new (never used or bought buy anyone else). Only reason I can use the Super AFR because I got lucky, HKS doesn't make Super AFRs anymore.
This might be closer than I thought, I got thinking to do, $300 I won't wager for that much, but for $150 I will. I also want to go from a dig and a roll, not just a roll like he wants to do. My best 60fts are just average (1.8s) so it's not a huge advantage for me from a dig.
04-16-2006, 01:09 PM
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sparetire read his posts first. no nitrous allowed.
anyhow back to the race.
a ls1 is already pushing close to 12.9 stock depening on traction. and trapping around 106-108 mph.
he can get a TSP airlid for $99 dollars./ $400-$500 headers/ 24 dollars CUTOUT. which will outflow ANY EXHAUST. he can get a set of base nitto drags for like 170 a peace.
so rounding up.. 100+500+24+170=$800 pretty much. that right their would put him deep in the 12s and trapping really well. he could opt not to get the drags and go with a cam or whatever.
you have the advantage. you dont have to worry about traction. so you right off can spend more money on power than traction. it will be close. it will all depend how bad you get him out of the whole. what you need to think about is. was the car modded before he got it.
anyhow back to the race.
a ls1 is already pushing close to 12.9 stock depening on traction. and trapping around 106-108 mph.
he can get a TSP airlid for $99 dollars./ $400-$500 headers/ 24 dollars CUTOUT. which will outflow ANY EXHAUST. he can get a set of base nitto drags for like 170 a peace.
so rounding up.. 100+500+24+170=$800 pretty much. that right their would put him deep in the 12s and trapping really well. he could opt not to get the drags and go with a cam or whatever.
you have the advantage. you dont have to worry about traction. so you right off can spend more money on power than traction. it will be close. it will all depend how bad you get him out of the whole. what you need to think about is. was the car modded before he got it.
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04-16-2006, 01:16 PM
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I think he would go
lid= 100
Headers= 350 (pacesetters or the sort)
Cutout=~50
Cam=450+mail order tune
There, 1 grand. (ROUGHLY estimated)
If he goes the cam route, you will need some serious top end power to keep up...
lid= 100
Headers= 350 (pacesetters or the sort)
Cutout=~50
Cam=450+mail order tune
There, 1 grand. (ROUGHLY estimated)
If he goes the cam route, you will need some serious top end power to keep up...
04-16-2006, 01:26 PM
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Damn if he can get headers and cam for under $1,000 I might be f*cked. If they can't tune with the AFR, then I may go with a mail in Flash and ditch the works filter. This is pretty interesting. I may except his wager, this could be fun. I only have till mid May to get all this done. He has the benefit of a higher income and more connections than I do. Before I except his wager I want make sure he doesn't cheat and go over limit, so I want to know what he has planned and how much?
04-16-2006, 03:00 PM
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I would go a different route for the evo..
You might be able to get an exhaust cheaper if you check around for local shops that have a mandrel bender, mine was done full 3" for $150.
That would still leave you enough room to buy a k&n drop in, a manual boost controller, and a set of hks cams with some dyno tuning.
Not sure about a reflash though, how necassary is that if it is already being dyno tuned?
You might be able to get an exhaust cheaper if you check around for local shops that have a mandrel bender, mine was done full 3" for $150.
That would still leave you enough room to buy a k&n drop in, a manual boost controller, and a set of hks cams with some dyno tuning.
Not sure about a reflash though, how necassary is that if it is already being dyno tuned?
04-16-2006, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BSmonitor
I would love to go with a Mail in tune, but that would put me over the limit.
Yes the ECU is tunable, but a very good quality tune can be a little bit more expensive than what I can fit under the limit. Tuning with an AFC (or AFR) is the least expensive way, and usually yields lower gains than a regualr flash. But Hopefully it will be enough to me over 300AWHP.
The drop in air filter is already on my car, so nothing I could do about that. Unless I took it out and went back to the stock filter and that would free up another $100, but I like the Works filter. I gained 1mph worth of trap speed with it.
Damn he might get me with the cutout, I was thinking he was going to go with a full exhaust, DAMN. I even recall he mentioned something about this, but I wasn't paying attention. I don't think Headers and Cam will fit under $1,000.
Depending on my tune, I may run a little more boost. As of now even a Boost Gauge puts me over the limit, that sucks.
Parts must be new (never used or bought buy anyone else). Only reason I can use the Super AFR because I got lucky, HKS doesn't make Super AFRs anymore.
This might be closer than I thought, I got thinking to do, $300 I won't wager for that much, but for $150 I will. I also want to go from a dig and a roll, not just a roll like he wants to do. My best 60fts are just average (1.8s) so it's not a huge advantage for me from a dig.
Yes the ECU is tunable, but a very good quality tune can be a little bit more expensive than what I can fit under the limit. Tuning with an AFC (or AFR) is the least expensive way, and usually yields lower gains than a regualr flash. But Hopefully it will be enough to me over 300AWHP.
The drop in air filter is already on my car, so nothing I could do about that. Unless I took it out and went back to the stock filter and that would free up another $100, but I like the Works filter. I gained 1mph worth of trap speed with it.
Damn he might get me with the cutout, I was thinking he was going to go with a full exhaust, DAMN. I even recall he mentioned something about this, but I wasn't paying attention. I don't think Headers and Cam will fit under $1,000.
Depending on my tune, I may run a little more boost. As of now even a Boost Gauge puts me over the limit, that sucks.
Parts must be new (never used or bought buy anyone else). Only reason I can use the Super AFR because I got lucky, HKS doesn't make Super AFRs anymore.
This might be closer than I thought, I got thinking to do, $300 I won't wager for that much, but for $150 I will. I also want to go from a dig and a roll, not just a roll like he wants to do. My best 60fts are just average (1.8s) so it's not a huge advantage for me from a dig.
04-16-2006, 03:17 PM
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lol chadder. if you paid 50 bucks for a cutout. you was majorly ripped off. ahahah.
and knowing that he is on a budget race. a regular cutout is better. no point in getting a eletric cutout. just wasting extra bucks.
and knowing that he is on a budget race. a regular cutout is better. no point in getting a eletric cutout. just wasting extra bucks.
04-16-2006, 08:31 PM
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On the SS I'd go;
cutout:$25
pacesetter LT: $285 (least expensive)
cam: (Lunati 222°In/230°Ex/534"/.544"/114°LSA) $319 (most aggresive cam for the money)
springs: $150 (required for cam)
total parts:$779
That leaves $221 for a dyno tune. I don't know of any shops that will do one for that little but if he gets a deal on any of the above parts, he can also get the tune.
The above combo should be good for ~410rwhp/385rwtq, tune included.
cutout:$25
pacesetter LT: $285 (least expensive)
cam: (Lunati 222°In/230°Ex/534"/.544"/114°LSA) $319 (most aggresive cam for the money)
springs: $150 (required for cam)
total parts:$779
That leaves $221 for a dyno tune. I don't know of any shops that will do one for that little but if he gets a deal on any of the above parts, he can also get the tune.
The above combo should be good for ~410rwhp/385rwtq, tune included.
04-16-2006, 08:53 PM
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Ok I called him up and told him I accept his challenge. I tried to get his mod list, but he is being shady with it, but he assured me he wasn't going to go over the $1,000 limit and would keep all his receipts and show me before we race (I have to do the same). We decided on $200, 2 races from a dig and 2 from a roll. Each race won is $50, so win all 4 races, get $200. If I can't get him from a roll, maybe I can break even from a dig.
A custom flash is too much, EcuTek is used for the IX, and the cheapest I find for that is $700 at Harman Motive. Tuning Technologies told me that they just recently got 330AWHP (91 octane) out of an EVO IX with a tuned AFC and similiar mods, they told me if the AFR works the same I may see similiar results, but I'm being conservative when I say I expect 310-320AWHP. But I plan to run 100 octane for more power and 23-24PSI. We will work out the details tomorrow. I'lll keep you guys posted.
A custom flash is too much, EcuTek is used for the IX, and the cheapest I find for that is $700 at Harman Motive. Tuning Technologies told me that they just recently got 330AWHP (91 octane) out of an EVO IX with a tuned AFC and similiar mods, they told me if the AFR works the same I may see similiar results, but I'm being conservative when I say I expect 310-320AWHP. But I plan to run 100 octane for more power and 23-24PSI. We will work out the details tomorrow. I'lll keep you guys posted.
04-16-2006, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by danno_SS
On the SS I'd go;
cutout:$25
pacesetter LT: $285 (least expensive)
cam: (Lunati 222°In/230°Ex/534"/.544"/114°LSA) $319 (most aggresive cam for the money)
springs: $150 (required for cam)
total parts:$779
That leaves $221 for a dyno tune. I don't know of any shops that will do one for that little but if he gets a deal on any of the above parts, he can also get the tune.
The above combo should be good for ~410rwhp/385rwtq, tune included.
cutout:$25
pacesetter LT: $285 (least expensive)
cam: (Lunati 222°In/230°Ex/534"/.544"/114°LSA) $319 (most aggresive cam for the money)
springs: $150 (required for cam)
total parts:$779
That leaves $221 for a dyno tune. I don't know of any shops that will do one for that little but if he gets a deal on any of the above parts, he can also get the tune.
The above combo should be good for ~410rwhp/385rwtq, tune included.
04-16-2006, 09:16 PM
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Ok I was really starting to get scared, but I've been reviewing the timeslip database and drag racing section and I think I still have a good shot from a roll and a dig. Ok I'll keep you guys posted.
04-16-2006, 10:13 PM
#19
I think no juice is ghey, thats what makes the v8 cool, the ability to spray 150 on a stocker! It's like you admit that he's right for a 1k or less! ps my n20 kit cost me $300. Have fun with the race!
04-17-2006, 02:22 AM
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My bad on the Juice thing, cant beleive I missed that.... 
So is a cutout not an option for you? You are already going no-cat......
That could freeup the remaing cash a bit. Just get a DP and cutout, then a reducer to the stock cat-back. That thing would spool the stock turbo nobodys business
And thats a great setup for the races, really lets both cars put their best foot forward and makes it a nice competition. This is definitely one of the coolest contests I have seen.
So is a cutout not an option for you? You are already going no-cat......
That could freeup the remaing cash a bit. Just get a DP and cutout, then a reducer to the stock cat-back. That thing would spool the stock turbo nobodys business
And thats a great setup for the races, really lets both cars put their best foot forward and makes it a nice competition. This is definitely one of the coolest contests I have seen.
Last edited by Sparetire; 04-17-2006 at 02:24 AM. Reason: and....