Installed LCA relocation brackets, not centered
 

I installed them with the suspension loaded, and have the LCA's on the lowest holes. The measurements are as follows:

Drivers side:
-front of tire is 2 1/4"
-rear of tire is 1 1/4"

Passengers side:
-front of tire is 2 3/8"
-rear of tire is 1 1/8"

The wheels weren't centered before, but now its worse. I've got 28" tires on the way, that's going to pose a problem with the wheels not centered. How do I eliminate this problem?

ADJ. LCA's

^^^ done and done!

That's what I was assuming, but not really sure how to go about it. Do drop both LCA's and adjust them accordingly and shove the rear forward? I couldn't get it to budge with 1 LCA hooked on either side.

you have to get adjustable lower control arms from bmr or umi and then put them on your car and adjust the wheel to the center of the wheel well.

does this generally happen? i have a set of brackets in the garage waiting for me to install but i rather not since school is keeping me from affording adjustable LCAs for now.

your wheel is usually always off centered with non adjustable LCA's its not that big of a deal.

so i sholdnt have a problem.. i just ordered some UMI relocation bolt on brackets and some BMR adjustable LCA's.. i can just adjust accordingly

A suggestion for you!
 

Hello
You shouldn't have any problems with the relocation brackets. No to sure about the control arms! but when we ship out our adjustable LCA's they are pre-set to factory specs.What we recommend when installing LCA's do one side at a time. Doing so eliminates the rear end shifting problem. Just put jack stands under a good place on the frame letting the rear unload and use a floor jack to get the rear end back into position. Hope that helps
Thanks
Brad :D

Give me a call when you get ready to do your install. I'll step you through the correct way to do it.

I have adj LCA's. That's why I'm asking the advised method of adjusting them

I installed them one side at a time, and my rear moved towards the rear of the car by about an inch. Is there any way other than adjustable lca's to move it back to where it was stock?

Lowering springs will do it. Do you have it in the lowest holes?

yeah lowest holes, stock springs with the hose mod.

LCA Problem!
 

Hello
Did you compare the stock LCA's to the ones that you installed? If it shifted a inch you are probably rubbing the inner wheel well. If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I will be glad to help!
Thanks
Brad :D

I still have the stock LCA's on, only thing I changed was the relocation brackets. I only have a half inch between the tire and the corner of the rear bumper cover (stock size tires on 16 inch rims) and there is about 2-3 inches between the tire and the back of the rocker panel. It wasn't 100% centered stock, but it did get worse after install.

Just trying to find out if there's anything to do to solve this before I spend money on adjustable LCA's.

edit: sorry if I jacked your thread 98.

i had this problem when i put my lower control relocation brackets on. i put my adj lca's in the bottom hole and i couldn't get my finger between the tire and rear bumber cover. i had to adjust my lca's alot to get the clearance. mine is not centered, i have more of a gap in front of the tire than the back.

I just installed mine today and now I have the same problem. The wheels are off centered in the wheel well.

We shouldn't need adj LCA's in order to use these right?

UMI, any suggestions? If the brackets are tight against the shock mount, it shouldn't matter how the rest was installed?

On mine it looks like the passenger side is worse. All I know is that the passenger side was difficult to get the bolt in while the suspension was loaded.

Hello
When installing the Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets did you do one do one side at a time and make sure that the control arm is able to swing freely to move to the other locations. Because if you installed them by taking both lower control arms out and just mounted them in the lowest mounting hole that would offset the rear end and it might be in a bind! If you have any other questions or problems feel free to call in and talk to our tech dept. Jerry will be able to take care of you!
Thanks
Brad :D

Are all of you guys using the bolt-in or weld-in LCA relocation brackets???

I noticed when mocking up my weld-in ones last night there was a quite a bit of fore-aft movement. I guess with the bolt-in version this wouldn't be an issue...

Bolt on for me, I'll hopefully be fixing it this weekend

I'm using the bolt in ones.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. The bolt in ones have no forward or backwards movement when tightened because it bolts to the shock mount. The shock mount prevents any fore-aft movements.

So I called Jerry at UMI and tried to explain this to him. He told me to try this:
1) Support the car by the frame to allow the axle to be unloaded a tad. The directions say to have the suspension loaded, I think??
2) Then support one side of the axle at a time, which ever one I'm going start with. Disconnect the shock.
3) Loosen all the bolts and re-install the LCA into the stock location to relocate the axle to stock position.
4) Disconnect the LCA from stock position making sure the axle doesn't move and install the bracket with the top bolt only.
5) Swing the LCA into the lowest position and rotate the bracket so the bolt slides in freely.
6) Tighten the top bolt first and shock mount last. This is opposite from the directions that came with the brackets.

I told him that the method of installation has nothing to do with the positioning of the bracket since it can only go in one way. It has to be bolted tight to the shock mount so can someone explain to me how can loading/unloading the axle or the bolt tightening sequence makes a difference in the position of these brackets?

I followed the directions sent with my umi relocation brackets. Everything is solid though, there is really no way to install them wrong... they're either on or they aren't, not really any room for adjustment.

Here is stock
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8...Pics/Ruff3.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8...QA1Prokit3.jpg

and with LCA reloc's
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8...e/DSCN1244.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8...e/DSCN1243.jpg

It looks like possible the lower holes are too far forward in the mount, pushing the rear end back. That's the only answer I can come up with.

At least someone understands what I am trying to say.

Thats how my car looks now since installed the relocation brackets. Luckily i already have the umi adjustable lca's so i just need to adjust it.

Me too. It says that the holes are in the right position for stock length LCA's, but it doesn't seem to be the case for any of us

Brad,
Any thoughts on this? Did we get a bad batch of brackets or something? Seems like a few of us are having the same problem.

The holes really only need to be ahead 1/2" to end up with these results. I don't want to jump to conclusions though...

yeah I had to pry the rear back about the width of the bolt hole in the LCA.

Bingo! That's all it takes.:bang:

Hello
No these are not a bad batch! These have been the same design for awhile now. What makes your wheel off set is if you don't have the bracket set on the rear end to allow the LCA to swing into all three adjustment holes. Mount the bracket and put the LCA back into the stock location and then make sure that you can put the bolt in with ease and then relocate the LCA to the Lowest hole without moving the rear pivot the bracket not the rear. And if you can put the bolt in with ease that means the rear did not move and is still in stock location! If you have any other questions feel free to call into our tech department and they will be glad to help!
Thanks
Brad :D

Well I tried doing that and yes you can pivot the bracket forward you but you can NOT pivot the bracket backwards if its tight against the shock mount. Physically impossible.

The whole intent of the design is to prevent the bracket from pivoting backwards, right?

I talked with Jerry about this and he is willing to take a look at them to see whats wrong. On a side note, if I use the stock bolt to mount the bracket to the axle, the shock mount hole in the bracket is not even close to lining up with the shock mount hole on the axle. The only reason I was able to get them bolted up in the first place was because the supplied bolt was smaller than stock.

I sent a long email and pictures to the sales@UMI email address trying to explain this. Please let me know if you got it.

This is getting frustrating!!!!

Hello,

Just an update on the brackets and to help clear a few things up.

This install does appear to be very simple... but they can also easily hbe installed incorrectly moving the rear end. These brackets take some caressing at times because they fit tight... also installing them on the ground can get frustrating and difficult. We use a lift for the install, we loosen the other items that hold the rear end such as the shocks, sway bar end links and loosen the torque arm bolts.

Today 5/14 we received a set of brackets back that were claimed to be a defect. We inspected the brackets and all the dimensions were correct per the drawings. We pulled in my car and tested the brackets with a install. Following our procedure we installed the returned brackets. The brackets installed with out moving the rear end and everything lined up with in a 1/16th of an inch. The brackets were a 100% correct and fit good. Again the brackets are a little tricky and take some patience to insure all holes are correctly lined up. With working with GM tolerances there has to be some room to give... the shock mounts on the rear ends can vary slightly.

Hope that helps,
Ryan

wow, I feel stupid now.

I lowered my car with DMS springs and ever since have felt like the car is just not safe to drive really hard, from a traction (not handling) point of view. I never knew I needed relocation brackets. I rarely take it out of the garage, but I'm very eager to install the relocation brackets and probably will do an on-car adjustable panhard at the same time.

My problem is just the opposite of your car. On mine the I can barely get a finger in between the front of the driver's rear tire and the wheel well and just a little more than a finger in between the front of the rear tire and the wheel well on the passenger's side. The rear wheels are not centered in the rear wells at all. My car has relocation brackets and stock springs, shocks, and panhard bar. I do have a BMR adjustable torque arm however. How do I get this thing centered. Its way more off than the Trans Am shown.:bang:

Hello
I noticed that you are having problems with the Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets. To make things a lot easier when you have a chance give our tech support a call and we will be more than glad to help!
Thanks
Brad :D

Ryan,
Thank you, yes these were my brackets, and yes I had to return them because they would absolutely not fit right.
That last statement basically sums it up and was the case here. Not once did your sales guy or your tech support mention that this could be the problem. In fact I was told the opposite and that the rear ends were built on a jig and should be fairly close. Basically their tone of the conversations was that I was idiot and installed them wrong.
Just for future reference the installation procedure tech support told me to use was the opposite from the directions that came with the brackets. I told this to tech support and they were going to look into it.

I guess the issue is, if that shock mount is welded on the axle at slightly the wrong angle, these brackets are not going to fit correctly regardless of the install procedure used because they are not that complicated to install. That is not UMI's fault. I have a number of other UMI parts on my car and everyone has fit flawlessly and work great.

since there seems to be large discrepencies in the correct install procedures, maybe UMI should post the CORRECT procedures right here so all of us can be sure we are doing it correctly. I have loud clunks after installing mine.

Hello
They are a little tricky! Sometimes you have to loosen everything up on the rear end. And make sure that you don't get the rear end into a bind and make sure all the holes line up especially the factory location seeing that is how you get the main setting. If you have any other questions feel free to ask and either Jerry or I will be glad to help!
Thanks
Brad :D

the CORRECT full procedures would be nice.

also, do the washers go on the bolt head side or nut side. washers for both sides would have been nice.

The instructions included with the brackets are the correct procedure. A clunk would usually signify a loose bolt or bolt tighten but not enough. We have techincal support available every day from 8-430pm EST if you would like to speak with them or e-mail Jerry at jerry@umiperformance.com and he may be able to help but he prefers the phone.

Thank you,
Ryan

your picures show washers on the bolt heads and on the nuts, but the kit doesn't include that many washers. Suggestions?

For the lower 12mm bolts we only include washers to do the nut side of the bolt. The installation pictures all depend on whether the installer wanted to add the extra washers... the installation pictures are also 3-4 years old. If you want to add the extra washers it won't be a negative or positive effect.

Hope that helps,
Ryan

just for correctness - there are only washers for one side included for the upper bolts also. washers for both sides seems like the proper way of doing it, like in your pictures.

my bolt-in UMI relocation brackets fit fine and seem to really have helped regain the traction loss I had on my lowered car without them. I'm very happy. the on car adjustable panhard bar is very nice also. I got the one with a rod end to the axle and a poly end to the chassis.

I've found that whenever I have a challenge with some aftermarket parts it's always a good idea to give the manufacture a call. 99 times out of a 100 they are more than willing to help a guy out who's patent and polite. I've called UMI a couple of times for help with the PHR and they were really good on the phone. PBJ, if you are still having a challenge, give them a call I'm sure they'll help you out as well as they helped me.

MLS

I did talk to them, and they were very helpful.

I'm having the same problem with a set of weld in brackets that I recently had welded in by a local shop. My rear is approximately 3/4" off center towards the back of the car. I'm thinking about giving them a call and asking them to grind the welds off and redo the job correctly. Will this cause any problems with the integrity of the brackets?

I used the bolt-on UMI version with no issues.

They could have installed them incorrect if they are the weld in brackets. If they did a good weld with good penetration the brackets aren't going to come off in good shape. I recommend getting a set of adjustable control arms to recenter the rear end... that would be the easiest way.

If I can help anymore please ask. Thank you!
Ryan

Hello , I just recently installed a set of UMI Bolt on brackets with ADJ LCAs & yes it is a tight fit but it helps if you have both sides loose with a hammer & big wrench to wedge the LCA into place . BTW car handles much better now with allot less wheelspin , it does ride a little harder ( oh well ) I did not need to ADJ the control arms both were stock length .

I had same issue with my umi lca's brackets, I have prokit springs and non adj lca's. My rear set perfect before the install but after the brackets my rear was way to far back, actually almost cut a tire when I hit a big bump and the tire hit the rear fender lip.

Instead of getting adj lca's, I just poked and extra set of holes in the brackets. Brought the rear closer to centered. I think it will work just fine.

Hmm, I'm midway in buying some relo brackets, and after reading this thread was a little dubious about getting some. But I need them (!) and I'm sure there must be lots of people who are happy with theirs, and knowing I could add extra holes if needed is reasuring. Thanks for sharing blakern........

Well im not saying that this is the right thing to do, its just what I did. Im planning on getting a moser 12 bolt soon and these brackets wont fit, so i just poked some holes in them.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...n/DSCF1525.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...n/DSCF1524.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...n/DSCF1528.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...n/DSCF1533.jpg

Thanks for the pics

I was a little concerned about how close to the other holes the new holes might need to be, guess I'll find out if I have this problem, as I've just bought some........:nod:

I would be worried about the integrity of the brackets after drilling more holes in them.

my UMI bolt ins worked fine with stock LCAs.

I was going to get a set of these. I am a little hesitant now. This is the first I have heard of any problems.

No problem with the parts, just the installer. It sounds like the bolt in version is install-proof, but the weld-in leaves some room for error. Just give the installer instructions to only do one side at a time, and it should be OK.

Luckily, I already have UMI adjustable LCAs as well so I can return my rear back to where it needs to be. I think this will bottom out my adjustment range though, or at least take it very close.

The bolt-on ones can only be installed one way, there really is no way to install them wrong. I think the majority of people that are having problems are on cars that sit really low. I think people with stock springs or just alittle bit of a drop seem to be fine? Cars like mine that have prokit springs or like that seem to be the trouble makers. Thats just what I make of things.

Bottom line is its better to have adj lca's so you can correct it, if it does turn out uncentered.

Unfortunately I ordered non adj lca's with my relocation brackets:bang:

Another FYI about my car: it's still at stock height on stock springs, with stock shocks at all 4 corners. Hopefully the problem doesn't get worse when I lower it because my LCA's will only go so short. :lol:

I didnt have any problems with mine, even though i have bmrs.

UMI most CERTAINLY had a bad batch, as the brackets I received around this time last year were DEFINITLY not what was pictured and when fit to the car would push the rear end back...

Want proof? I went out and reinstalled one and took pictures:

http://www.darklogic.net/BadUMIReloBrackets/

If you notice, having the rear end in 'driving height', swinging the control arm down, bolting in the bracket, and swinging the control arm back up, IT DOES NOT LINE UP in EITHER set of lowered bolt holes. If you notice, with the bracket then removed, it swings up perfectly back to the stock mount point perfectly.

It is obvious that the 'arm' on the relocation brackets that bolts where the shock does is WRONG!

I called UMI before on this, I sent them measurements, and they STILL said it was correct. By this pics it is OBVIOUS it is NOT!

Hell, by the pictures supplied by UMI of thier own brackets in teh instructions you can see visually that the 'arm' on the brackets is much shorter on the ones I received. They say they never changed them, but it is obviously shorter. The pics I provided on the install PROVE that.

I ended up cutting the arms off, grinding off the powdercoat and welding the brackets in.

At this point I just want the $30 difference in weld-in vs bolt-in brackets. I purchased the brackets through Byunspeed, so who do I contact to get a refund?

I will say it is horrenous for a vendor to claim there is no problem when it is BLATENTLY obvious they had a bad batch. They claim it couldn't be, but I have done CNC machining (including wire-edm and other forms of cutting) and it is VERY simple to modify a program either before posting it to the shop or even on the machine itself. One dimension change by someone and BAM! a whole batch is bad. To lie and claim it is not is just bad business. To not want to accept something like a batch of relo brackets back and then just sandblast them and cut off the arms to make a batch of weld-ins just does NOT make good business sense...

Also, to add more data to this, the install was on a 1995 Camaro Z28 with stock rear. I also tried fitting these to a 1994 Z28 stock rear ad a 1997 Trans-Am with stock rear and all had the EXACT same issue. There is NO WAY to fit these brackets differently, so "install error" is a non-issue. They only bolt in one way. And you can see by the pics provided that they were installed the only way they can go on.

I just want my $30 refunded to me at this point. I would LOVE to be able to get refunded for my installation hassles (cutting the brackets, grinding off the powdercoat, welding), but we all know THAT won't happen.

And the sad part is I really LOVE the UMI subframe connectors. I was planning on going with a UMI Torque-Arm this year, but the major let-down of a badly produced part with the relo-brackets really soured me on UMI. I mean why would you risk future sales over a $90 part??? Just produce the right part and exchange the bad ones... Greed too many times really screws up business.

I mean, if GM changed rear end geometries (which would mean they also changed the rear lower control arms), and certain rear ends need different setups, why isn't this a well-known issue? I mean you state you installed one of these 'defective sets' on your own car??? How the hell is that possible if it is a 'factory' rear??? Again all of this does NOT add-up. (and for reference I tried teh install with both Global West control arms on my car and stock control arms on teh other cars, so no adjustability was available for a 'quick-fix', or hmm, is it possible that is your 'solution'? Sell adjustable LCAs???)

Oh, and if you had not noticed, I am just a little pissed by the stonewalling attitude that there is no problem with the part, and the obstinance of denying it.

Ouch!!! Someones a little pissy.
But thats exactly how mine looked. Holes are to far forward, which in return pushs the rear end to far back.
Nice pics.

the pictures dont show the arm that goes to the lower shock mount. seeing how that was positioned with them installed would tell the true story.

Sure it does. First pic shows the curve and it sitting flat against the shock mount arm, sandwiched between the shock bolt and the arm.

Pic:

http://www.darklogic.net/BadUMIReloB...s/p6030001.jpg

You can see the bottom flat of the L portion flat against the shock mount on the far right of the pic.

not a clear shot of it at all, but take your word for it.

Good to hear :cheers:

i had the same issue. back wheels were 1/2-3/4 inch towards the rear of the car. the front/rear wheels were the exact same distance from each other (measured at center of front/rear wheels) so you can rule out sloppy installation of relocation brackets.

if my car wasn't lowered, the wheels would have been centered in the wheel wells. i noticed this when i was loading up the rear with a jack to check.

i just adjusted the (adjustable) lca's by 1/2 inch each and now the tires are centered in the wheel well. i'm still driving around to make sure there's no rubbing issues, but so far it seems fine.

Im having the same problem with the umi ones also.

Hmm, interesting, UMI posts up and down this thread, but when there is evidence and proof they are *strangely* quiet...

I guess I may have to resort to posting a link on thier visitors page to get them to respond???

Damn someones out for blood.

the thread was originally about BMR, but it seems like everyone has the same issue with both BMR and UMI's brackets. i'm guessing both designs are exactly the same :secret2:. which brings me to wonder who came out with it first :D

here are before/after pictures of the passenger side.
this is a bad picture for the angle, but you can get a good look at the space between the forward facing part of the tire and the body.
with aftermarket lower control arms (spohn adjustable rod/poly) at stock length (measured at bolt holes).
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/w...ncentered1.jpg

after shortening the lower control arm 3/5"
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/w...tcentered1.jpg

before and after the adjustments, the front/rear wheels were the same distance (measurements taken with a tape measure, flat on the ground against chalk lines made using a ruler lined up with the center of the wheels) from each other as compared between driver/passenger sides, so it wasn't a sloppy install. like everyone else is implying, it just looks like there isn't enough of an arc built into the relocation bracket.

what else could it be?

We have responded MULTIPLE times, it has done no good. We can only do some much in a thread. If you have a problem call us or e-mail us. For installation questions we prefer a call as e-mails are too hard to explain in detail. Threads are too hard to keep up with and offer techinical advise for every customer.

One customer sent his back and they checked out ok, we randomly pulled sets out of stock and they are ok as well. We personally installed them on my vehicle.. the set sent back moved the rear 1/16 of an inch. If you have problems please call Jerry in technical support and he will be glad to help you.

Our phone #- 814-857-5400

Thank you,
Ryan

Ok folks I would like give UMI the chance to answer all your questions via the phone. They have been nice enough to dedicate alot of time to try and help via this forum but apparently this medium is not working to everyone's satisfaction. Therefore I strongly suggest that if you still have a concern please contact them directly via phone to help get the issue sorted out instead. A phone call goes a long way and is usually quicker to get resolution than an internet forum. Therefore I'm closing this tread.

If you would like to provide feedback about UMI or any sponsor for that matter, please do it in the sponsor feedback section.

Thanks,

MLS