serious brake upgrade needed!
05-30-2009, 06:28 PM
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serious brake upgrade needed! My car has gotten some very serious performance upgrades in all areas but the brakes. I'm running a D1SC w/FMIC on a 370ci block. I have not done much with the brakes, just cross drilled and slotted rotors with some aggressive pads and they are not cutting it anymore.
I'm looking for something more than just the normal C5 or C6 brake upgrade. I have spent a lot of money so far making the car faster, now I need it to stop. Looking for opinions, whats the best bang for the buck?
I'm looking for something more than just the normal C5 or C6 brake upgrade. I have spent a lot of money so far making the car faster, now I need it to stop. Looking for opinions, whats the best bang for the buck?
05-30-2009, 08:05 PM
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When's the last time you did a brake fluid flush and made sure the caliper pins were sliding properly and were not seized? I think it's pretty common for people to assume there's nothing they can do to improve their stock brake system unless they go with a big brake kit, and it just plain and simple isn't needed. If you haven't done any maintenance to the stock brake system, then a simple flush and caliper pin maintenance.. maybe swapping out the shims, clips, pin boots.. I'm sure anyone would notice a huge difference.
What kind of pads do you have anyway? Keep your eye out for cracks on the holes on your cross drilled rotors.. inspect them often.
What kind of pads do you have anyway? Keep your eye out for cracks on the holes on your cross drilled rotors.. inspect them often.
05-30-2009, 08:18 PM
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Whats the next big break upgrade if you want to stick with 17" wheels? I have 03 Z06 wheels on my Z28 and don't want to give them up because of the weight savings. SSBC has their Force 10 4-Piston Aluminum Caliper Disc Brake Kit, Front, 13" Rotors. Whats the story on this kit? $1300 from bynuspeed ?!
05-30-2009, 10:10 PM
#6
Whats the next big break upgrade if you want to stick with 17" wheels? I have 03 Z06 wheels on my Z28 and don't want to give them up because of the weight savings. SSBC has their Force 10 4-Piston Aluminum Caliper Disc Brake Kit, Front, 13" Rotors. Whats the story on this kit? $1300 from bynuspeed ?!
However, its quite expensive. If you're looking for an upgrade kit on a budget, check out the C5 conversion. You can get it from the WS6 Store for $732, and thats everything. Calipers, brackets, adaptor plates, rotors, pads, and hardware. The C5 kit has 13" rotors with PBR dual piston pressure cast calipers, powercoated either red or black. Stock LS1 rotors are only 12", and the calipers are gravity cast instead of pressure cast, so they are not as rigid. Check out the link here.
05-31-2009, 04:48 AM
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Wilwoods 6-piston front brake kit will also fit the stock 17's but they run for about $1,700. The only downside that I've read about are that they don't have dust boots.
Last edited by Cumbias; 05-31-2009 at 04:54 AM.
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05-31-2009, 11:22 AM
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Define what you mean by not cutting it. The stock brakes are more than adequate for 95% of the cars out there when it comes to stopping ability. What pads specifically are you using? What fluid is in the system? What tires are on the car?
05-31-2009, 05:05 PM
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A friend of mine made this original post. I am actually running baer cross drilled slotted rotors and hawk pads. They have been on my car for a long time but my car only has 13,000 miles on it. I don't know why but the car doesn't stop for crap, my dodge 3500 crew cab stops better than my Ta. I would like to keep what I have on the car but need the car to stop better since I am putting down over 700hp now.
05-31-2009, 07:49 PM
#10
A friend of mine made this original post. I am actually running baer cross drilled slotted rotors and hawk pads. They have been on my car for a long time but my car only has 13,000 miles on it. I don't know why but the car doesn't stop for crap, my dodge 3500 crew cab stops better than my Ta. I would like to keep what I have on the car but need the car to stop better since I am putting down over 700hp now.
My car has some unknown brand of cross drilled rotors that are worn out, with EBC Red Stuff pads. In daily driving, you really shouldn't have a problem. My brakes have never let me down, and I beat the hell out of them all the time. No matter how late I hit the brakes for a stop or turn, they are just there and the car stops as fast as I need it to, no drama. Now stopping quickly from triple digit speeds or if you're running them hard repeatedly, thats where they become inadequate.
05-31-2009, 08:44 PM
#12
Sounds to me like its possibly a master cylinder/brake booster problem or maybe bad fluid/air in the lines.
06-01-2009, 09:17 AM
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1. Make sure caliper pistons and pins aren't seized. No caliper movement = bad braking. (This problem is common)
2. Make sure fluid is fresh. Probably needs a flush if it hasn't in a few years. Old fluid and/or air bubbles = horrible pedal feel
3. Check pads, make sure there's plenty of life in them.
4. Make sure you don't have a problem with the MC I guess... (I'd hate to see you change to a BBK if you have a problem here)
5. If your still not satisfied, go with a BBK
I just don't want to see the OP spend all that money on a BBK if it's masking another problem. Also just wanted to make him aware of the possible causes of braking problems. In any case BBK's look nice and we all like our cars to look nice, so if you want that anyways then by all means go for it.
06-01-2009, 12:15 PM
#14
The stock brake package hardware is actually a decent setup ... 2 piston calipers on a 12" rotor should stop most any 2 ton vehicle.
Bryan pretty much nailed it ... your issue doesn't appear to be size related, rather consumables related.
Fix the problem ...
Bryan pretty much nailed it ... your issue doesn't appear to be size related, rather consumables related.
Fix the problem ...
06-01-2009, 02:01 PM
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I do pretty hard-core road racing with a stock-like setup. Baer calipers which are simply stock design, but a little stiffer (still a 2-piston, sliding pin design). I have stock Corvette rotors. I run Wilwood 570* fluid and Carbotech XP12 pads.
In all my racing, I've never had any brake fade whatsoever. I can outbrake most any car I race against, including Viper Comp Coupes, Corvette C6 Z06s, and BMW M3s. About the only one that gets me under braking is a certain Porsche 911 GT3 Cup.
Short version - check fluid, then pads, then mechanical stuff mentioned above. Stock brakes should work for about anything, if the pads and fluid is up to the job.
In all my racing, I've never had any brake fade whatsoever. I can outbrake most any car I race against, including Viper Comp Coupes, Corvette C6 Z06s, and BMW M3s. About the only one that gets me under braking is a certain Porsche 911 GT3 Cup.
Short version - check fluid, then pads, then mechanical stuff mentioned above. Stock brakes should work for about anything, if the pads and fluid is up to the job.
06-01-2009, 04:34 PM
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I am not an expert when it comes to brakes and am here for help. I do believe that there is something wrong with my system but do not know where to start. How do I change the fluid and what fluid should I use? I think I want to try this first and go from there.
Thanks
Thanks
06-01-2009, 05:12 PM
#17
Start with the right (passenger) rear caliper, then the rear left, then the front right, then the front left. Make sure you keep the reservior filled, if it runs dry you will have a hell of a time getting the air out.
Also pull off your calipers, check the pads, pistons, and rotors. Make sure you don't see brake fluid leaking from the pistons, they should be bone dry. And make sure the dust boots aren't torn or damaged. Inspect the rotors for grooves, as well as the pads. Look at the pads and make sure they don't appear to be very shiny, which would indicate they are glazed over.
06-01-2009, 05:20 PM
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First, go buy some brake fluid. Either the best stuff you can find at the auto parts store or order it online. You want to find the highest "wet" boiling point you can find. I say "wet", because I figure you don't want to be changing fluid every few weeks. Unless you are doing track days, 350* should be about good enough. Also, if you want to do this only once, go ahead and buy some pads and do that now.
There are some good "how to bleed brakes" articles out there. Here are a few of my suggestions:
Grab one of those little bottles with a magnet on it and clear tubing. They are about $1.99 at an auto parts store. The tubing (and fittings) fit on the bleeder valve, and the fluid goes into a bottle. It allows you to make this a 1-person job.
As for pads, my suggestion is to call Carbotech. They will talk to you, and recommend a specific pad for you. Much friendlier than other companies I've talked to.
I like Wilwood 570* fluid. It's cheap enough to put in all my cars, but performs well enough for my racecar.
If you're new to all this, I'd recommend having a pro look at everything. Shop around (go in person, don't call on the phone), and see if there is a shop that will let you watch them so you can learn. Brakes really aren't an area to "learn as you go".
You can do it yourself for much cheaper, but if this is your first time, I think you should have someone else do it. But, go ahead and get the parts yourself.
There are some good "how to bleed brakes" articles out there. Here are a few of my suggestions:
Grab one of those little bottles with a magnet on it and clear tubing. They are about $1.99 at an auto parts store. The tubing (and fittings) fit on the bleeder valve, and the fluid goes into a bottle. It allows you to make this a 1-person job.
As for pads, my suggestion is to call Carbotech. They will talk to you, and recommend a specific pad for you. Much friendlier than other companies I've talked to.
I like Wilwood 570* fluid. It's cheap enough to put in all my cars, but performs well enough for my racecar.
If you're new to all this, I'd recommend having a pro look at everything. Shop around (go in person, don't call on the phone), and see if there is a shop that will let you watch them so you can learn. Brakes really aren't an area to "learn as you go".
You can do it yourself for much cheaper, but if this is your first time, I think you should have someone else do it. But, go ahead and get the parts yourself.