Manman VS MWC...... T/A's and fab9's
10-27-2010, 09:19 PM
#1
Manman VS MWC...... T/A's and fab9's Well im lookin at buying a rear end a torque arm in the next month.
Now its between the Madman T/A with a racecraft rear end or the MWC steal of a deal package.
Reason its even a toss up is Madman's setup has been proven again and again and again. Its hard to argue with his results. But the MWC is so cheap im having a helluva time spending a LOT more money putting in the Madman/Racecraft alternative.
What kind of 60 foots are people cutting the MWC short arm?
Car is a gutted formula getting a 370 with a 80mm hairdryer on it (powerglide). Lookin for mid 800's for power. Goal for the 60's is 1.29
If someone could give me some feedback to help make this decision a little easier I'd really appriciate it.
Now its between the Madman T/A with a racecraft rear end or the MWC steal of a deal package.
Reason its even a toss up is Madman's setup has been proven again and again and again. Its hard to argue with his results. But the MWC is so cheap im having a helluva time spending a LOT more money putting in the Madman/Racecraft alternative.
What kind of 60 foots are people cutting the MWC short arm?
Car is a gutted formula getting a 370 with a 80mm hairdryer on it (powerglide). Lookin for mid 800's for power. Goal for the 60's is 1.29
If someone could give me some feedback to help make this decision a little easier I'd really appriciate it.
10-28-2010, 08:26 AM
#2
we have several customers out there going 1.2's, 1.3's in 60 with our off the shelf production parts, and we have more than just one setup available. we can even do a custom length torque arm if need be. there is no rocket science to torque arms, its all a instant center point and center of gravity issue. I can tell you this...its more about non-bind in the travel, the correct tires, gear ratios, torque converter tune up, launch rpm, and good shocks.
10-28-2010, 03:35 PM
#3
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Go with MWC......there is no comparision to any others out there, I've had nothing but great luck with my setup and because of the MWC Fab 9", I've been able to get the times in my sig and 60 fts. on my little baby cam/N2O setup. I have been so happy with MWC's support and products that I will only deal with them on all my future suspansion products.....period!!!
10-29-2010, 07:10 AM
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MADMANs stuff is absolute top notch...
what do you get with him...well you get all the suspension tuning advice you need to make the car run fast.
look at some of the 275 LSx cars like ATVracrs....hes cutting 1.1x 60 fts with MADMAN stuff
what do you get with him...well you get all the suspension tuning advice you need to make the car run fast.
look at some of the 275 LSx cars like ATVracrs....hes cutting 1.1x 60 fts with MADMAN stuff
10-29-2010, 08:51 AM
#5
The choice is pretty easy if it were my car.....
I am sure that Midwest chassis has nice components, they are quality pieces with construction and materials that will last.
Madmans stuff is alittle different deal. Brian is a racer who develops parts that work at the track. Brian has tested numerous different torque arm configurations and designs to figure out what works best with each different type of combination weather it be slicks or radials, all motor or turbo.
Secondly when you purchase from Brian is you recieve suspension setup advice from one of the best in the industry. Brian will be able to tell you what baseline setting to run and is available on weekends for tech support. I am MORE than happy buying parts from brian and if I have to pay extra its well worth it.
I'll give you an example. I purchased some AFCO shocks from Brian. He gave me baseline settings on the shocks. We went to the track on sunday to do make hits. Made a soft test hit and went right down the track. Added power, the car left hard, picked up the front end and had to abort the run at 330' because the wheels were 3' in the air. My first thought was to pull all the travel out of the front end. I called brian and he told us what to change and it wasn't travel. Car left perfect next run, front driver wheel was 2-3" off the track for whole pass. I couldn't imagine what he could do if he is there watching the passes.
Brians suspension parts are also on the fastest F-bodies to the 60'. They were on the Bradys car which easily went 1.18 60's on radials and many others. My choice is easy.
I am sure that Midwest chassis has nice components, they are quality pieces with construction and materials that will last.
Madmans stuff is alittle different deal. Brian is a racer who develops parts that work at the track. Brian has tested numerous different torque arm configurations and designs to figure out what works best with each different type of combination weather it be slicks or radials, all motor or turbo.
Secondly when you purchase from Brian is you recieve suspension setup advice from one of the best in the industry. Brian will be able to tell you what baseline setting to run and is available on weekends for tech support. I am MORE than happy buying parts from brian and if I have to pay extra its well worth it.
I'll give you an example. I purchased some AFCO shocks from Brian. He gave me baseline settings on the shocks. We went to the track on sunday to do make hits. Made a soft test hit and went right down the track. Added power, the car left hard, picked up the front end and had to abort the run at 330' because the wheels were 3' in the air. My first thought was to pull all the travel out of the front end. I called brian and he told us what to change and it wasn't travel. Car left perfect next run, front driver wheel was 2-3" off the track for whole pass. I couldn't imagine what he could do if he is there watching the passes.
Brians suspension parts are also on the fastest F-bodies to the 60'. They were on the Bradys car which easily went 1.18 60's on radials and many others. My choice is easy.
10-29-2010, 09:12 AM
#6
Well im lookin at buying a rear end a torque arm in the next month.
Now its between the Madman T/A with a racecraft rear end or the MWC steal of a deal package.
Reason its even a toss up is Madman's setup has been proven again and again and again. Its hard to argue with his results. But the MWC is so cheap im having a helluva time spending a LOT more money putting in the Madman/Racecraft alternative.
What kind of 60 foots are people cutting the MWC short arm?
Car is a gutted formula getting a 370 with a 80mm hairdryer on it (powerglide). Lookin for mid 800's for power. Goal for the 60's is 1.29
If someone could give me some feedback to help make this decision a little easier I'd really appriciate it.
Now its between the Madman T/A with a racecraft rear end or the MWC steal of a deal package.
Reason its even a toss up is Madman's setup has been proven again and again and again. Its hard to argue with his results. But the MWC is so cheap im having a helluva time spending a LOT more money putting in the Madman/Racecraft alternative.
What kind of 60 foots are people cutting the MWC short arm?
Car is a gutted formula getting a 370 with a 80mm hairdryer on it (powerglide). Lookin for mid 800's for power. Goal for the 60's is 1.29
If someone could give me some feedback to help make this decision a little easier I'd really appriciate it.
For us it was an easy choice. the fast guys all run madmans stuff. Once we got the madman rear suspention(TA, LCA, Panhard) and the front sya bars, timiters. We saw why. every piece especually the TA is designed for maximum adjustabilty for your combo and the track. We also got the swaybar and shocks from him. When we first set it up he gave us some great starting points and since then(even last weekend at SGMP) IF we saw something different e offered up some gret uspention tunning tips. Worked great for us. To me the few extra dollars is well worth being able to call him up and tell him what the car is doing and he can give you advise. Also hes not just a 4th gen fbody guy. They race all kinds of stuff so he can offer other solutions if its not the suspention thats not working. We have been 1.180, 1.181, and a boat load if 1.19 and 1.20 's on his stuff on 275 drag radials. You couldn't pay me to take his stuff off and "try" somen elses stuff. it just works!
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10-29-2010, 09:17 AM
#8
believe me I want his torque arm.....
but i just cant find a reasonable rear end option. Moser is out of the question because of torque arm mount. Racecraft is beyond expensive. I am 22 years old and make 13 bucks and hour. believe me I worked my *** off for the $3000 check for the last two weeks and am having serious serious issues trying to chomp off the price of the racecraft piece. Not that I wont make more checks like this one.... i just would like to finish this car sometime before I am growing gray hairs. This is my second turbo car.
Wish I could use the MWC rear with the madman torque arm.
Im trying to get every last piece of suspension I can from Brian but this rear end/TA has me sorta lost.
I have afco shocks, strange brakes (front and rear), and spindles to buy yet. My reasoning behind lookin at MWC is pretty clear. In the end its probably 2k saved towards these other parts.
Now why cant we meet in the middle and someone build me a damn T/A mount for the MWC fab9 so i can use the madman ta lol. Im sure this sounds insane as they are competitors but hell.... seems like that would be the easiest way to go fast
but i just cant find a reasonable rear end option. Moser is out of the question because of torque arm mount. Racecraft is beyond expensive. I am 22 years old and make 13 bucks and hour. believe me I worked my *** off for the $3000 check for the last two weeks and am having serious serious issues trying to chomp off the price of the racecraft piece. Not that I wont make more checks like this one.... i just would like to finish this car sometime before I am growing gray hairs. This is my second turbo car.
Wish I could use the MWC rear with the madman torque arm.
Im trying to get every last piece of suspension I can from Brian but this rear end/TA has me sorta lost.
I have afco shocks, strange brakes (front and rear), and spindles to buy yet. My reasoning behind lookin at MWC is pretty clear. In the end its probably 2k saved towards these other parts.
Now why cant we meet in the middle and someone build me a damn T/A mount for the MWC fab9 so i can use the madman ta lol. Im sure this sounds insane as they are competitors but hell.... seems like that would be the easiest way to go fast
10-29-2010, 09:28 AM
#10
Question is if Madman will build the t/a mount... with Eric sell the rear without the arm....... I bet not
s60 is sounding better and better. Just really would prefer the 9inch
10-29-2010, 09:36 AM
#12
just floorboard clearance and what not... from what i've read...
I have no personaly experience with these rears in the 4 gens. Just going off what I have read over and over and over again.
One thing for sure, I have read about the short times people cut with brians parts... and have not been able to find anyone with any great short times with the MWC setup (not sayin it is not capable to... just has not been done much far as I can find personally)
EDIT: If I could get axles, housing, and torque arm (everything minus center section) from Madman for the same price as the MWC setup is complete... i would be on the phone giving my card number to Madman right now... But this is not anywhere close to the case.
I have no personaly experience with these rears in the 4 gens. Just going off what I have read over and over and over again.
One thing for sure, I have read about the short times people cut with brians parts... and have not been able to find anyone with any great short times with the MWC setup (not sayin it is not capable to... just has not been done much far as I can find personally)
EDIT: If I could get axles, housing, and torque arm (everything minus center section) from Madman for the same price as the MWC setup is complete... i would be on the phone giving my card number to Madman right now... But this is not anywhere close to the case.
10-29-2010, 10:29 AM
#14
Like Eric mentioned, there is no rocket science to torque arms. With that being said we can also custom build what a customer needs because we build everything in house. We are also available to help our customers after the sale. It is what we are here for and talking to our customers about what their combo is doing only helps us learn more.
We are also racers out of the shop racing different types of vehicles. Midwest Chassis is known for the F-Body suspension pieces but that is not the only style of vehicle we build items for, nor the only thing we build in house. Eric is racing a Top Sportsman Corvette that he built from scratch in house for example.
If you do a search on here you will see that there is a good list of people that run our product with very good results. That is for a reason, because we not only build our own product, but we are testing it every weekend we possibly can.
If you have any questions please let me know and I will help you out.
We are also racers out of the shop racing different types of vehicles. Midwest Chassis is known for the F-Body suspension pieces but that is not the only style of vehicle we build items for, nor the only thing we build in house. Eric is racing a Top Sportsman Corvette that he built from scratch in house for example.
If you do a search on here you will see that there is a good list of people that run our product with very good results. That is for a reason, because we not only build our own product, but we are testing it every weekend we possibly can.
If you have any questions please let me know and I will help you out.
10-29-2010, 11:29 AM
#15
what Madman says is correct.... there's nothing wrong with any of these parts and they have a track record to prove it, but the designs are older technology and tunnel clearance is a issue with a stock style torque arm attachment... no way around it unless you raise the car or do sheetmetal modifications to the tunnel.
difference is I have only been in the late model f-body parts world for about 4 years. I have been building cars and parts for 20 years, worked on so many mustangs and fbodys i can't remember them all. I designed my product to sell to the biggest market out there which is the guys wanting to *bolt in* high quality components themselves that are proven to work, and do it at fair prices. a higher cost and completely cut and weld-in setup is not what most of this market wants.
Midwest Chassis & Performance, Inc. is a full service chassis shop. I can absolutely build any component if thats what someone wants, and offer years of experience in tuning as well. I own and race both a 10 inch tire f-body and a full tube chassis top sportsman car. My employees own and race mustangs and f-bodys as well. you will find me at a track most any weekend the weather is good. you want knowledge and experience to back it up... we have just that.
what most people here don't understand is that a torque arm is nothing more than a device that controls axle wrap-up and creates an instant center point. there is no magic in a torque arm and there is nothing out there that makes one "better" than the other. not all cars are the same(power, weight, gear ratios, tires, center of gravity height, etc) and what works for one car in a torque arm length(and height) may not be optimum for the other. why do you thing the Pro Stock cars use 4 link bracketry that has so many adjustments... they use it to tune the chassis for different conditions and available torque. if there was one known setup there would be no reason to put the cost of materials, labor, and r&d into the sophisticated components they all use.
instant center is the imaginary point of which the rearend pivots from in its range of motion and creates a point of lift on the chassis. how the car works depends on where the center of gravity is and comparably what the suspension is setup to do with the center of gravity. there's alot to it and i don't wanna get into all that right now, but there is no rocket science to it. the most important thing by far is the amount of power(torque) available, and more so how that power is applied. look at a turbo car compared to something like a nitrous or Procharger assisted setup... more often than not the turbo car will run much faster(indicating good horsepower) but the 60's and 330's will be quite a bit slower than the others. its all a matter of how that power is applied to the chassis and surface.
all torque arms do the same thing no matter who's is being used, the issue is that the right length arm is being used for the application, and that the components are adjustable and designed to go through the range of motion free of bind. one of the reasons why i offer two different lengths of arms in bolt-in, and offer any custom length of arm in a weld-in design, all fully adjustable.
We are also direct dealers for Strange, Moser, AFCO, and many others. we can get whatever rearend and torque arm setup you want at great prices.
difference is I have only been in the late model f-body parts world for about 4 years. I have been building cars and parts for 20 years, worked on so many mustangs and fbodys i can't remember them all. I designed my product to sell to the biggest market out there which is the guys wanting to *bolt in* high quality components themselves that are proven to work, and do it at fair prices. a higher cost and completely cut and weld-in setup is not what most of this market wants.
Midwest Chassis & Performance, Inc. is a full service chassis shop. I can absolutely build any component if thats what someone wants, and offer years of experience in tuning as well. I own and race both a 10 inch tire f-body and a full tube chassis top sportsman car. My employees own and race mustangs and f-bodys as well. you will find me at a track most any weekend the weather is good. you want knowledge and experience to back it up... we have just that.
what most people here don't understand is that a torque arm is nothing more than a device that controls axle wrap-up and creates an instant center point. there is no magic in a torque arm and there is nothing out there that makes one "better" than the other. not all cars are the same(power, weight, gear ratios, tires, center of gravity height, etc) and what works for one car in a torque arm length(and height) may not be optimum for the other. why do you thing the Pro Stock cars use 4 link bracketry that has so many adjustments... they use it to tune the chassis for different conditions and available torque. if there was one known setup there would be no reason to put the cost of materials, labor, and r&d into the sophisticated components they all use.
instant center is the imaginary point of which the rearend pivots from in its range of motion and creates a point of lift on the chassis. how the car works depends on where the center of gravity is and comparably what the suspension is setup to do with the center of gravity. there's alot to it and i don't wanna get into all that right now, but there is no rocket science to it. the most important thing by far is the amount of power(torque) available, and more so how that power is applied. look at a turbo car compared to something like a nitrous or Procharger assisted setup... more often than not the turbo car will run much faster(indicating good horsepower) but the 60's and 330's will be quite a bit slower than the others. its all a matter of how that power is applied to the chassis and surface.
all torque arms do the same thing no matter who's is being used, the issue is that the right length arm is being used for the application, and that the components are adjustable and designed to go through the range of motion free of bind. one of the reasons why i offer two different lengths of arms in bolt-in, and offer any custom length of arm in a weld-in design, all fully adjustable.
We are also direct dealers for Strange, Moser, AFCO, and many others. we can get whatever rearend and torque arm setup you want at great prices.
10-30-2010, 03:04 PM
#16
MADMAN's stuff is absolute top notch no queston!
I have been running his stuff in my car since she had 200 miles on her.
I cut 1.32 to 1.36 60 fts in the heat of the Texas summer with a little LS1 347, moser 12 bolt with 4.56 gears at a race weight of 3150.
Coach
I have been running his stuff in my car since she had 200 miles on her.
I cut 1.32 to 1.36 60 fts in the heat of the Texas summer with a little LS1 347, moser 12 bolt with 4.56 gears at a race weight of 3150.
Coach
10-30-2010, 05:49 PM
#17
what Madman says is correct.... there's nothing wrong with any of these parts and they have a track record to prove it, but the designs are older technology and tunnel clearance is a issue with a stock style torque arm attachment... no way around it unless you raise the car or do sheetmetal modifications to the tunnel.
difference is I have only been in the late model f-body parts world for about 4 years. I have been building cars and parts for 20 years, worked on so many mustangs and fbodys i can't remember them all. I designed my product to sell to the biggest market out there which is the guys wanting to *bolt in* high quality components themselves that are proven to work, and do it at fair prices. a higher cost and completely cut and weld-in setup is not what most of this market wants.
Midwest Chassis & Performance, Inc. is a full service chassis shop. I can absolutely build any component if thats what someone wants, and offer years of experience in tuning as well. I own and race both a 10 inch tire f-body and a full tube chassis top sportsman car. My employees own and race mustangs and f-bodys as well. you will find me at a track most any weekend the weather is good. you want knowledge and experience to back it up... we have just that.
what most people here don't understand is that a torque arm is nothing more than a device that controls axle wrap-up and creates an instant center point. there is no magic in a torque arm and there is nothing out there that makes one "better" than the other. not all cars are the same(power, weight, gear ratios, tires, center of gravity height, etc) and what works for one car in a torque arm length(and height) may not be optimum for the other. why do you thing the Pro Stock cars use 4 link bracketry that has so many adjustments... they use it to tune the chassis for different conditions and available torque. if there was one known setup there would be no reason to put the cost of materials, labor, and r&d into the sophisticated components they all use.
instant center is the imaginary point of which the rearend pivots from in its range of motion and creates a point of lift on the chassis. how the car works depends on where the center of gravity is and comparably what the suspension is setup to do with the center of gravity. there's alot to it and i don't wanna get into all that right now, but there is no rocket science to it. the most important thing by far is the amount of power(torque) available, and more so how that power is applied. look at a turbo car compared to something like a nitrous or Procharger assisted setup... more often than not the turbo car will run much faster(indicating good horsepower) but the 60's and 330's will be quite a bit slower than the others. its all a matter of how that power is applied to the chassis and surface.
all torque arms do the same thing no matter who's is being used, the issue is that the right length arm is being used for the application, and that the components are adjustable and designed to go through the range of motion free of bind. one of the reasons why i offer two different lengths of arms in bolt-in, and offer any custom length of arm in a weld-in design, call fully adjustable.
We are also direct dealers for Strange, Moser, AFCO, and many others. we can get whatever rearend and torque arm setup you want at great prices.
difference is I have only been in the late model f-body parts world for about 4 years. I have been building cars and parts for 20 years, worked on so many mustangs and fbodys i can't remember them all. I designed my product to sell to the biggest market out there which is the guys wanting to *bolt in* high quality components themselves that are proven to work, and do it at fair prices. a higher cost and completely cut and weld-in setup is not what most of this market wants.
Midwest Chassis & Performance, Inc. is a full service chassis shop. I can absolutely build any component if thats what someone wants, and offer years of experience in tuning as well. I own and race both a 10 inch tire f-body and a full tube chassis top sportsman car. My employees own and race mustangs and f-bodys as well. you will find me at a track most any weekend the weather is good. you want knowledge and experience to back it up... we have just that.
what most people here don't understand is that a torque arm is nothing more than a device that controls axle wrap-up and creates an instant center point. there is no magic in a torque arm and there is nothing out there that makes one "better" than the other. not all cars are the same(power, weight, gear ratios, tires, center of gravity height, etc) and what works for one car in a torque arm length(and height) may not be optimum for the other. why do you thing the Pro Stock cars use 4 link bracketry that has so many adjustments... they use it to tune the chassis for different conditions and available torque. if there was one known setup there would be no reason to put the cost of materials, labor, and r&d into the sophisticated components they all use.
instant center is the imaginary point of which the rearend pivots from in its range of motion and creates a point of lift on the chassis. how the car works depends on where the center of gravity is and comparably what the suspension is setup to do with the center of gravity. there's alot to it and i don't wanna get into all that right now, but there is no rocket science to it. the most important thing by far is the amount of power(torque) available, and more so how that power is applied. look at a turbo car compared to something like a nitrous or Procharger assisted setup... more often than not the turbo car will run much faster(indicating good horsepower) but the 60's and 330's will be quite a bit slower than the others. its all a matter of how that power is applied to the chassis and surface.
all torque arms do the same thing no matter who's is being used, the issue is that the right length arm is being used for the application, and that the components are adjustable and designed to go through the range of motion free of bind. one of the reasons why i offer two different lengths of arms in bolt-in, and offer any custom length of arm in a weld-in design, call fully adjustable.
We are also direct dealers for Strange, Moser, AFCO, and many others. we can get whatever rearend and torque arm setup you want at great prices.
Last edited by ShiznityZ28; 10-31-2010 at 10:41 AM.
11-01-2010, 05:46 PM
#19
our fabricated 9 inch torque arm and our stock style bolt-on arms have multiple instant center adjustments and I can supply a weld-in crossmember too. hell, if i was to sell a weld together crossmember setup to all these people that are buying these things i could drop the price even more! custom length, custom height... no problem for us. so whats your point? I sure hope you're not trying to say that my products aren't capable of 60 foots in the 1.1-1.2 range.
11-01-2010, 06:22 PM
#20
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I'm very happy with my MWC torque arm and COMPLETE suspension from front to rear. I've been consistant 1.22 60's and that was when the car weighed in at 3400 lbs.
Everything on my car suspension wise was custom to what I required to make it fit. The torque arm needed to clear the Strange Ultra case so Eric changed the design to fit the car. We have changed lengths on the arm previously, and the MWC torque arm has 4-5 Instant center adjustments on the front pivot point. The MWC is not for "Street" cars only. Comparing Eric's arm to Madmans and you can see there is a considerable difference in the overall design. Being that I work in the engineering field, I prefer Eric's design over Madmans. But we all are entitled to use whatever we want or prefer, and thats why there are more than one type of torque arm out there.
Will they both work, YES. I've had great luck with MWC products and will continue to go there for suspension parts and fab work.
Everything on my car suspension wise was custom to what I required to make it fit. The torque arm needed to clear the Strange Ultra case so Eric changed the design to fit the car. We have changed lengths on the arm previously, and the MWC torque arm has 4-5 Instant center adjustments on the front pivot point. The MWC is not for "Street" cars only. Comparing Eric's arm to Madmans and you can see there is a considerable difference in the overall design. Being that I work in the engineering field, I prefer Eric's design over Madmans. But we all are entitled to use whatever we want or prefer, and thats why there are more than one type of torque arm out there.
Will they both work, YES. I've had great luck with MWC products and will continue to go there for suspension parts and fab work.