lwoods

I don't have this car, but I am looking at it. I will put Koni/Stranos on it and the rest of Sam's goodies (bars, watts link). I would likely also put stainless steel lines, HPS pads, ATE rotors, new fluid and keep the 17" c5z replicas. The car has Fuzion ZR1 tires which I've never heard of; are they any good? They seemed to have a good ride and handling. I think that is all that is relevant to braking.

Now for the tricky part that will be guesswork. I trust that you folks will not let me down in that category, you seem exceedingly well informed.

The LS1 FBody generally was generally tested from 60-0 in 120 feet.
For reference, I recently read an article which showed the results from C5 brakes installed onto a C4. The result was 126' to 105' 60-0 distances.

1. What will the above listed setup approximately stop the car in?
2. What would it take to get this Trans Am to stop in 105 feet?
3. Is a 60-0 stopping distance attainable without 18"+ wheels and big brakes?

Thank you for your help,
Lawrence

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Not sure what it will take to get it to stop exactly that amount of distance, but the following are things you can do to stop better:

1. Make sure your brake hydraulic system is up to par/maintained and able to apply the brakes firmly
2. Better brake pads
3. Stickier tires
4. Weight reduction
5. Good pavement conditions

Would the torque arm mounting point make a difference in straight line stopping distance anyone???

I'm not sure if you'll get answers that contain metrics... too many varying factors between cars, conditions, etc that effect how you stop.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Lawrence...

You are overlooking some important details, details designed to make you think that there is some magic.

First of all let's look at your example. Did you know that C4's base brakes in front were 12", dual piston PBR's? A C5 uses 12.8" dual piston PBR's. But many C4's had upgraded 13" rotors with the same PBR caliper (different than the C5, some feel better). So it's not a massive change and in some instances might even be a smaller than stock rotor.

Anyway, it's a C4, likely not on GM pads, likely some parts store crap. So with the installation of C5 brakes comes new pads! And fluid, lines too. None of which hurt. And that's where the performance comes from 60-0, not the rotor size. It's the pad compound.

Ask anyone who'd upgraded pads on their otherwise stock brakes... they'll tell you they stop a lot better too!

Is 105' possible? Sure it is... not on some rock hard crap tires, not on some lousy slick road, but on a good surface with grippy tires and good pads that's not impossible. Hard, because we do have heavy, nose-heavy cars that can't use too much rear brake lest we get terrible brake hop. But put some nice tires on, keep the camber closer to zero to maximize contact patch and you'll be amazed.

Fusion's... those aren't high-end tires. They aren't terrible, but they are basically the store brand for TireRack, made by Bridgestone I think. But like anything the performance is only as good as the parts involved, and those are more economy minded tires. And that's, quite literally, where the rubber meets the road. You can have Formula 1 Carbon brakes, if the tires have poor grip you'll just lock them up and not stop very quickly.

99FormulaM6r

iTrader: (2)

Correct. I had those tires on the car when I bought my Formula. They're not bad tires, seem to get pretty decent reviews, but they're not high-end sticky tires. Overall, OP, as Sam mentioned, the greatest brakes in the world can't stop you quickly if you can't get traction in the tires. The Fusions may be a limiting factor, but they're definitely not the worst, and seem to get pretty good reviews for their traction as far as street tires go.

Making 105' as the "number" to get might not be the best way about going out improving your braking performance. Improving your pedal feel (stainless lines and good fluid, as you've mentioned doing, do a lot for this), fade resistance (HPS aren't full on race pads, but they hold up better than stock for sure), and yes, braking distance make these cars more fun, easier, and safer to drive. Just going after a target number which can vary depending on the surface you're driving on and the weight in the car isn't going to always be a reliable way of measuring your brakes performance.

Overall, I think you'll be happy with those upgrades for improving your brakes.

lwoods

105' is just a base idea. And yeah, the pads were upgraded to HPS on this test, so inevitably they were going to run better times. I read a little deeper. Damn, Sam. Are you psychic!

Allow me to rephrase this, and I'll start a new thread if I need to. I just feel like I've done that for everything. I just really want this Trans Am, and want to know what I need to do to make it "future-proof" i.e. do it right the first time so that I don't spend money 3 times because in a year I am no longer happy!

The brakes on the Trans Am didn't grab like I wanted them to. The rotors are warped and the pads are worn, so it was going to fall short. I am just worried that when I get all of this done, it won't be what I want as far as grip.

I do have the extra funds.
Would they be well spent on a set of Welwoods?
Would I notice a difference with the Welwoods over this setup?
When would I notice a difference bearing in mind I don't ever see myself at Laguna Seca anywhere but on my XBox?

Thank you for all of the positive reactions to what may be pretty stupid and redundant questions. It is really helping me put together a budget for what I need on this car.

-Lawrence

99FormulaM6r

iTrader: (2)

Honestly, for a street or even auto-x car (if you're not going to track it), you'll be just fine with the stock calipers with the parts you mentioned. Even if you are tracking it, switching your pads to a set of race-specific pads and continuing to flush your fluid as needed, the stock calipers should hold up. If you really want, you could upgrade to the C5 calipers if tracking it is something in your future (which doesn't sound like from your post). As mentioned, tires and the surface are going to hold you back more than anything once you get to a certain point. It was pretty damn easy to lock up the wheels on a street surface for me BEFORE I upgraded my brakes to basically what you mentioned (before then I had a stuck caliper pin, old fluid, and worse pads), and now it's a lot sharper and more responsive. I don't see any reason to spend the money and go way above and beyond, especially with an expensive set of aftermarket calipers, as you may not even notice a difference on the street. Spend the money elsewhere on a good suspension setup (as you mentioned doing), and maybe even some driving lessons before any upgrades to get familiar with the car, and just have fun with it

EDIT: May I also add, it's almost fun to install parts one piece at a time instead of going all out and upgrading a bunch of things at once (not necessarily for brakes, more so towards your suspension pieces). This is more based on necessity for me as I don't have the money, lol, but doing a few things at a time teaches you a lot more about the car and lets you see exactly how things are changing.

lwoods

That is an interesting idea. I might just take things slower get a feel for it as I go. Thanks for the suggestion. I might do just that.

-L