License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Any1 found a good set of LCA's to run with their Watts link?

What's least noisy? also if some are running noisy ones what are the advantages or pros u get from having to overlook the extra noisy ones...(rod ended).

peterlawl84

iTrader: (12)

I am using a UMI poly/roto adj. LCA on my car with a watts and love is so far. No extra noise over the previous set up of boxed LCA and UMI poly/rod adj. PHR

pewter2002

iTrader: (4)

I've got the same as peterlaw ^ and I only notice (maybe) a little more harshness, no noise. This is only noticeable under acceleration on certain roads if I'm looking for it. Mind you, I've just installed them so my experience is very limited as of now. My old stuff had broken (!) crumbling bushings so perhaps my experience would not be typical. To sum up, with the ROTO on the axle side, I feel that there has been NO real sacrifice in comfort or NVH over my poly stuff. I remember the poly being harsher than the factory rubber when first installed too so this seems about the same. Hope this helps.

ramairetransam

iTrader: (18)

i use bmr extreme arms and they are great no noise . They are poly ended .

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Ok ok we got a couple of +'s for the roto end on the axle lca's..

What's "NVH" btw?

Someone please correct me if im wrong becuz i feel like i might be...
When running the Watts link we're assuring the axle stays put in the centerline of the car and has less or attempts to null any left and right motion. Now just from the visual it would seem the Roto ends would help in flexibility towards left and right motions....so wouldn't we be working against the Watts intended purpose?

dont get me wrong im all for later more effective technology...and well roto vs. poly...i think roto wins. But with the poly being less flexible....wouldn't it aid the cause of the Watts?

Maybe the roto helps at different angles...like when street pavement is uneven....allowing for flex differences not so much in left and right but angles a street or pavement could impose on the axle.

Mark2002

iTrader: (2)

I'm no expert, but here's my 2cents...

The Watts' job (like the panhard bar it replaces) is simply to keep the rear end centered under the car. It does nothing (or at least it shouldn't) for controlling forward & backward motion of the axle. The job of the LCA's is to control forward & backward motion of the rear end. They do nothing for keeping the rear end centered, nor should they.

Mark.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

NVH is noise vibration and harshness. No poly in no way helps. Polyurethane's greatest weakness is its inflexibility in applications that require translation, the ability of a material to deform to allow movement other than pure rotation.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

I realized I only answered half your items. The the heim (rod ends) and other ball bearing type joints (Johnny joints, rotojoints, del-sphere, etc.), help because the watts link must allow the axle to roll as each wheels encounters differences in height over bumps, turns, etc. This means that joints don't just rotate but twist. Rubber allows this movement through compliance (good), but also permits deflection or deformation if your prefer (bad). Ball bearing joints add the compliance of movement, but remove the deflection, but because they are metal on a not so compliant race material, they increase NVH.

pewter2002

iTrader: (4)

^ lees06WS6 thanks, you beat me to it! Pretty much what I would have said.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

ok so all in all the roto joints on the axle side are of help to the cause of the watts.

Thanks for taking the time out to explain....i was trying to figure it out but confirmation helps a lot more.

Its good to know these things because we're taking time and money to set them up...and well i dont want to mix match parts that in theory dont belong together.

Also I realize that our axles are not the best configuration so what we are attempting to do is make it perform to the best of its ability. So matching parts are important. It will never be IRS .....but god damm it not for lack of trying.....just like IRS will never be this simple and durable as well.

Anyone want to contribute to the pros of running roto on both ends of the LCA's?

I'd like to consider them....altho im sure the NVH will increase some.....we have to wonder just how much more over just one side having roto?

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

Having roto joints, poly, or rubber, on both ends of the LCA is irrelevant to the function of the watts, or panhard. Having rod ends on the Watts link is a help to the Watts link's job, but nothing else. Each of the components of your live axle suspension is tasked with a different function.

• The LCA's transfer the forward motion, and braking force to the frame, and keep the wheel centered in the wheel front to rear.
  
• The torque arm takes up the acceleration and braking reaction of the rear axle, transmitting it to the body, preventing the axle from rotating.
  
• The watts, or panhard bar, locates the axle from side to side, without a locating device the rear axle would dog leg and put tremendous strain on the lca's, torque arm and shocks.

I can't speak to rotojoints, but I have had rod ends on both ends of a control arm. They will provide excellent performance when in top condition. However, they are noisy, harsh, and when driven regularly on the street, will wear out fast.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Excellent break down. And reference info.

Here's a roto joint version:
http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=353

looks interesting but you have to pay more than just avg poly ends....... And well it all comes down to preferences in the end. They sound "leaps" and bounds ahead of the usual rod ends....but they probably will perform very simialar and have the similar cons.
Decisions decisions.

Thanks all. More suggestions welcomed. As well as roto joint experiences.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Took a closer look at dual roto in above post....they're really good looking units.
Solid build...the joints are zerk fitted and look like they would allow for all the maximum compliance you could need from an lca. It's hard to imagine this design getting better. Maybe if there was a durability factor but from what they're advertising...there shouldn't be an issue with durability.

They look like the ultimate pieces to have in LCAs for 4th gen Fbods.
59 bucks tho for poly on poly....thats a dinner with a fat girl.....the rotos are 4x.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

That really depends on your perspective. If you spent lots of money building a great track suspension, and you were a road race guy, roto joints every where, tuned it perfectly, and lapped great times, you might think it was the best suspension in the world.

However, if you were a daily driver person living on the northeast end of the I-95 corridor, and took that same suspension you might think you descended to the seventh level of hell.

Some of it is equipment, a lot of it is application, and expectations.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

hahahaha....im on the southeast of 95.....it's not so bad down here. but i've been up there too.

What's your opinion on a good medium for the street?
I might be overshooting with the roto set...because Im interested in making our axles work the best they can...since I seriously doubt I will ever convert it to IRS....but I do realize I dont have the budget for trial and error....im going to pull the trigger on a worthwhile set soon.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

If it were me, and this is a daily driver, I'd keep the rubber. I'd definitely get rid of the poly on the front also. You have excellent shocks already. I might go with a different set of springs with a more ideal rate that gets the same drop. Looks like you're lining up a rear bar of 22mm, so I'd get a new front bar that matches it. I'd call it a day at that point.

That's doesn't sound very exciting, especially if you're dead set on trying a new type of joint, but it would be a decent handling car that wouldn't beat you to death on road trips either.

I'm going to get trashed for saying this, but none of the aftermarket arms impress me too much, and the watts link while I'm sure it's a nice piece on an event course, the PHB isn't hurting you on the street. If you're lowered and riding on wider rears, yes an adjustable is a good idea, and I'd probably run an adjustable with aftermarket rubber ends (yes you can get rubber ends, similar to rod ends, and poly ends).

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Well fuggin A who says the internets full of washed up dooktalkers?....saw rearend pics of your trans am....your fuggin the Indiana Jones of Fbodies...that is awesome!!! looks real sweet. I've contemplated it...but nah im scared of that much work sometimes. But who knows maybe one day if i find my car saddled with an LS engine...and still dont want to let her go...and im bored with a nice AC cooled garage.

So a good pair of LCA's with rubber NOT poly!!!?! And call it a day.?! I could get those for what the Founder Perf ad shows at 59$ (likely with poly)...hopefully they can knock off some bucks for rubber!

I like your wisdom but im said and done for on the front end. That chit was a lot of work.....honestly i dont regret going poly there.......but there is one bushing I wish I had left rubber. The lower control arms rear donut/biscuit....fugg it would be so sweet if I had not put the poly biscuit in that 1....but I would have never imagined it would make it all so stiff and well BABOOM for every little smidget on the road.... I'm living with it for now. It was just tooo much work to undo. And honestly i think ALL the rest are great for deflection. I blame the rear biscuit for not being flexible enuff.

I upped the front sway from 28mm stock to 32mm....I def. felt the difference. And i got it for 50 bux....so tuff to argue with a good price.

I did the SFC's but didnt feel much of a difference if any.
The shocks ALONE made a big difference. Then the frnt sw bar...like i said I def...felt. All the rest...almost nothing. So i could believe you (even without the IRS setup....altho.... it helps). Some things are not always worth going too fancy on.

You ever run more then 35/22 on the sways?
You do agree LCA's in general are worthwhile upgrade...ur votes for rubber ends not poly? If i go this route I will skip out on the adjustbles.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

35mm on the swaybar is the largest most go with around here, and I'd agree, and with a 22 on the rear and having a 32 up front your car will over steer more. Yes I'd stick with rubber.

License2Ill

iTrader: (1)

Its tuff to argue with experience and when it hurts the pockets far less....almost makes it the sureshot.
ty ty dood.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Why not 1LE bushings and boxed stock control arms? Isn't that the best compromise for a car that is a daily driver foremost, but adding some enhancement? Any aftermarket LCAs with 1LE bushings (NOT poly)?