Handling setup ?'s wheels, tires, shocks, springs, etc...
 

I'm in need of new shocks and new tires soon. This is my daily driver, won't be autox'd or drag raced (well maybe once yearly if that). I care more about handling than straight line performance, however, don't want to spend a ton of money. Car is an 02 WS6 with stock everything suspension wise (112k miles). Poly motor, trans & torque arm mounts.

So first are the tires.

1. Keep 275/40/17 and stock ws6 wheels?
2. Buy 17x9.5 & 17x11 DD ZR1's from OeWheels. 275's up front 315's back.

Through searching I've seen that staggered wheels aren't a good idea from a handling perspective, but never really got a complete answer as to why.

Even though the second option is more expensive, I prefer the looks if it's not a big deal to the handling aspect.

Onto the suspension.

1. Bilstein's with stock springs (heater hose mod)
2. Bilstein's with Strano springs (no heater hose)
3. Unknown option similarly priced above?

Not too concerned with the reduced ride quality (from a daily driver standpoint) when adding lowering springs. My old car had a horrible suspension setup and didn't bother me too much. decarbons up front, drag shocks in the back on pro kit springs :jest:

Anything else to consider? I know if I do the 315's I'll get an adjustable PHB to make everything straight....especially with lowering springs.

I know the sway bars, LCA's & torque arm all help, but on a budget and not drag racing is any of that actually that critical to a nice handling daily driver?

Option 1 probably isn't what you want, because it will only lower the rear by the thickness of the isolator you take out. No drop in front.

Option 2 is probably the best one for actual lowering on a budget. You get the better dampers, you get the lower Cg, you get the look, you get the reduced roll and pitch from the springs.

Option 3 to me would be Koni's and stock springs. You can get a little drop on the front that way, you get killer shocks... but no help on the roll and pitch angle side.

Yes, you want an adjustable PHB to be able to manipulate the body vs. the tire location.

You don't need anything else. Other parts might be nice, but the fact is it's not true that you need to change LCA's, or put brackets on, or change TA's just because you lower the car.

I don't know about staggered widths being a detriment to handling (Vettes and Vipers do it along with many other cars), but you would lose the ability to rotate your tires, and for a DD, that might be important. You'll also quickly realize that bigger tires = $$$, and that's not much fun either for a car that will be seeing some miles.

If it were me, I'd keep your stock rims (maybe refinish them if they are looking tired), and do #1. No muss, no fuss, and you'll have better than stock shocks, which will make a nice difference in all aspects. You could also do Koni SAs with the stock springs, and that would let you use the lower perch on the Konis up front, but that would be more $. I don't think the Bilsteins have the lower perch option for the front, so you'd only be lowering the back by doing the heater hose mod, which would leave the front end sky high.

Well currently I'm fairly pleased with the ride height of the car. I have the stock decarbons and stock springs with heater hose mod. It's pretty level front and back and no giant 4x4 gap like I've seen on others. I would imagine it's because of worn suspension components, however, I'm not very familiar with that aspect.

Is that possible to have a lower ride height from worn out suspension?

Here you can see it's not too bad, but certainly not the same as lowered.

If you like the ride height, then you don't need to lower it unless you want to. You could go Koni and stock springs. Maybe do swaybars instead of springs (with koni or bilstein).

Certainly bagged springs will cause the car to sit somewhat lower. Could be that's what you are seeing. In cases like that my springs might not sit a lot lower (since you are lower than stock to start with). If the springs are sagged, they have lost rate vs. their original specs.

As for staggered sized. I don't recommend it if you want the car to handle. The smaller wheels and tires on the heavier end of the car isn't what you really want. As someone who does a lot of Corvette work (and owns one), I can tell you now that the difference in balance between a C6 and a C6 Z06 is largely altered by the big difference in rear rim and tire width. I have a C6 Z06 and I wish I didn't have a 2.5" stagger in rim size, the car is balanced weight distribution wise, and overall weight wise like a C5 Z06, which has only a 1" stagger. Those cars turn tight stuff better than my car does. If I loosen my car up to mimic that I chase it like mad in transition.

Wow.. that's about as tall as I've seen a car be, and I can't think of another time that someone was that ok with that much height. But this is where I get serious about there not being absolute answers. If you are ok with it, it is your car and what someone else thinks isn't the end of the discussion. We can make it handle a lot, LOT better even if you don't want to lower it.

This picture might help you decide. Ironically it's taken in almost an identical fashion (taken from another thread): http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3811/hawk4.jpg

:jest:
Yeah I guess, that was before heater hose mod. Don't get me wrong, I like the lowered look. I try to talk myself into it being ok because I don't want to spend the money, even though it's not that much. I've got 27.25" in back from fender to ground and 27.75" in front. About a 2-2.5" gap to the wheels

Well, it's a personal decision. Hey, if you leave it at stock height it's easier to get in and out of. :)

:jest: Well I'm only 26 so that doesn't really matter to me.

Anyhow thanks for your help, when it comes down to ordering I'll give you a call.

Looks like I'll stick with the stock wheels w/new tires. Bilstein's with strano springs.

As far as the bars, I can do that later. Will there be a big difference over the stock ws6 bars? What about just new bushings? Rubber or Poly?

Looking back I wish I had just kept my stock ws6 rims and put more money into better tires and suspension. I would recommend good shocks, springs, adjutable panhard bar, subframe connectors big time, as well as strut tower bar. If your keeping your stock rims get some Baer rotors, they fit with no mods, with some hawk hp pads, and you will be in heaven. I have road raced it a tons at pocono with vettes and it was a dream.

I've heard mixed reviews on SFC's. Back in the day it was a mandatory 1st mod. Now it seems like a lot will say if you have good shocks on the car it's a non-issue. I've never heard that the strut tower bar was a big difference maker but they're so cheap it's not big deal.

I'm on a budget so $500 rotors or a $1500 big brake kit is not in the future. I'll probably get some inexpensive decent rotors with some hawk hp pads for a couple hundred.

Subframe connectors...meh, you can, but probably overkill for what you are doing. Shock tower bar? Skip it, unless you need some place to rest your hand while working on the engine.

Nope.. My 285/35/18's are ~$250 for Nittos. $310/ea for GS-D3's (when they were in production)... Buddy just got replacement 315/35/18's for $400/ea.... BFG's.. 0_o

Properly sized swaybars (35mm front, 22mm rear) will make a nice difference, while keeping great balance. They should come with everything you need bushings-wise (and are poly).
If you are talking about all other bushings, stick with rubber, poly will bind on certain parts (like control arms) because of how they articulate.

People were used to 3rd gens back in the day, which supposedly did have flexing issues.
Most of the people who notice a difference are on poor shocks to begin with, and the SFCs are just helping absorb(or transmit it though the chassis in some cases it seems) all the NVH caused by the poor dampening in the first place.

Option #2 with a 1LE front sway bar, stock rear bar and some good tires on 17x9 wheels with 1.0 negative camber in the front will transform that car IMO.

17x11 and 17x9's I dont like on these cars, never have. Like Sam said you have LESS tire on the heavy end of the car and a solid rear axle with more tire. Makes for a good setup to plow like a tractor turning on mud. A buddy had this setup with Sam's stuff underneath on street tires at Road Atlanta liked it....so it's all in what you like.

The a "square" tire setup you can rotate tires and save a lot of money on tires maximizing tire life.

Strut tower brace, IMO unless it hooks to the cowl I don't see how it would do a alot except add weight over the nose(that you don't need).

Frame connectors, always been a fan of these. Whenever you can give the suspension a stiffer platform to work off of it can't hurt, also helps in the fatigue/squeak and rattle dept.

I don't know if there is such a word but it seems like a lot of people want to "overtire" or "overwheel" a car. One thing that stuck in my mind over the years was the Olds AchievA went to SMALLER but wider tires on their showroom stock car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Achieva

This told me that a lot of times, the "big tire/big wheel" stuff is mainly for show. (Sorry to use a crappy car like the Olds Achieva to make a point, but work with me on this.)

I'm still rocking my 16" wheels and if I had the choice I'd still go with more expensive tires instead of going up to seventeens. All that unsprung weight has to have somewhat of an negative effect on the car, especially if it's a daily driver. I've decided that with my upgraded shocks, pads/rotors, and "decent" tires and with future simple changes like changing my brake fluid and going with upgraded sway bars I'll have a pretty decent handling car.

I would go to 17's, the unsprung weight gain is minimal, zero with a lighter wheel but the handling gained by the shorter sidewall/wider tire will be the benefit.

You can also fit C5 brakes under the 17 inch wheel.

Thanks for the help guys. I haven't found much on the ws6 front sway bar. How does it compare to the others? Would I benefit by just putting a set of poly bushing on the bars, or am I much better off saving that and buying new bars later down the road?

If I come across a good deal on the 35th Anniversary wheels, I may go that way, but for now, the tires are too new to switch.