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Suspension & Brakes Springs | Shocks | Handling | Rotors

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Old 03-09-2017, 09:16 PM   #21
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Lateral G's >>> ride quality no matter the situation.
why is that?
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:03 AM   #22
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why is that?
They're more fun
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:08 AM   #23
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^ correct. the SP090 springs are higher rates more oriented towards an aggressive handling car than the SP001. The SP090 has rates of 725 and 210 where the SP001 has rates of 550 and 160. Honestly, the SP001 is much better suited for a daily driven car where ride comfort is priority over absolute lateral g's
on a scale of 1-10 how would you grade the ride quality of each set?
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:15 AM   #24
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on a scale of 1-10 how would you grade the ride quality of each set?
This is very subjective, but with my experience I would rate as follows. With 10 being the smoothest and 1 being the harshest, I would rate the standard SP001 springs around an 8 and the SP090 around a 6. But if you look at cornering confidence and stability the numbers would be switched
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:35 PM   #25
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Boy, I dunno. I won a lot of stuff without big rate springs. I have never seen the need to go there. This includes on my own cars, where I ran against many, many cars with stiffer springs of all sorts and I wasn't the one who lost.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:54 PM   #26
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I'll gladly send you a set of ours to test if you'd like
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Old 03-12-2017, 03:42 PM   #27
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This is very subjective, but with my experience I would rate as follows. With 10 being the smoothest and 1 being the harshest, I would rate the standard SP001 springs around an 8 and the SP090 around a 6. But if you look at cornering confidence and stability the numbers would be switched
Would the combination of SP001 fronts and SP090 rears get me a 7 in smooth ride and cornering confidence? Also, earlier in this post I noted I had welded LCA's. I was wrong. I have Metco bolted LCA's along with welded SFC's and STB from BMR. So I went to your site and now I'm interested in the lowering package with relocation brackets, springs, and PHB.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:47 PM   #28
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Would the combination of SP001 fronts and SP090 rears get me a 7 in smooth ride and cornering confidence?
Thats not how it works at all, why would you want to mix springs?
The front and rear spring need to work together, if you have the stiffer 210lbs/in rear spring and the softer 550 lbs/in front spring the car will want to heavily oversteer. If anything it would be safer for you to have the stiffer front springs and softer rear, so the car will understeer, but this does not improve handling.
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Also, earlier in this post I noted I had welded LCA's. I was wrong. I have Metco bolted LCA's along with welded SFC's and STB from BMR. So I went to your site and now I'm interested in the lowering package with relocation brackets, springs, and PHB.
If those LCA's have poly bushings on both end they are not helping your handling or ride quality situation. Ideally for ride rubber is best, but rod ended is better for handling, doesn't bind like poly can.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:53 AM   #29
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Thats not how it works at all, why would you want to mix springs?
The front and rear spring need to work together, if you have the stiffer 210lbs/in rear spring and the softer 550 lbs/in front spring the car will want to heavily oversteer. If anything it would be safer for you to have the stiffer front springs and softer rear, so the car will understeer, but this does not improve handling.
I asked because I see they sell fronts and tears separately.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:29 PM   #30
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I agree with JD (won't see me type that very often lol). The imbalance of spring rates would cause some very undesirable ride quality and handling aspects. It is important to keep spring rates in relation to each other front to rear. keep in mind, the rear is more sensitive to spring rate change than the front due to the mounting position and weight distribution of the car. So going up that much in the rear without changing the front would be much more noticeable than going the other way around
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:20 PM   #31
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I bought the 725s just to see what they would feel like because that would have been the only way to try a stiffer spring and not switch to coilovers. I had some 200 Afco springs already. I was kind of doubtful that they were going to be streetable, but they are VERY streetable. Dare I say my car rides just as good as the 550/175s that I had in there before. And I have Koni SAs and the fronts are set on 5 from full soft. My backs are on 1.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:43 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BMR Sales2 View Post
I agree with JD (won't see me type that very often lol). The imbalance of spring rates would cause some very undesirable ride quality and handling aspects. It is important to keep spring rates in relation to each other front to rear. keep in mind, the rear is more sensitive to spring rate change than the front due to the mounting position and weight distribution of the car. So going up that much in the rear without changing the front would be much more noticeable than going the other way around
I purchased the koni str.t and Eibach lowering spring kit at the beginning of the year and I have to say I regret it,love the ride height but the last few months when driving over bumpy surface my front end literally hops like a lowrider not sure if its the shocks or springs either way my ride is terrible and I paid 500,any help please.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:20 PM   #33
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I'll gladly send you a set of ours to test if you'd like
Nah, I'm good given I was doing springs this way for far longer than you guys. And well, you know, winning National Championships and stuff.

But thanks. I'm not down for the game, last time you guys offered me something is was to dump someone else. Not into the game.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:32 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ChrisRZ28 View Post
I bought the 725s just to see what they would feel like because that would have been the only way to try a stiffer spring and not switch to coilovers. I had some 200 Afco springs already. I was kind of doubtful that they were going to be streetable, but they are VERY streetable. Dare I say my car rides just as good as the 550/175s that I had in there before. And I have Koni SAs and the fronts are set on 5 from full soft. My backs are on 1.
Sure if you live somewhere the roads aren't bad you can get away more rate. But a lot of country sees cold temps, which hurts the roads, and that in turn hurts the way the car works when the roads aren't in decent shape.

Having been to, and actually driven to and around a lot of this country I laugh out loud when folks from most of the SE, SW, and west complain about the roads. Things are far worse in the NE and Midwest simply due to frost heaves, roads being plowed, and salted, all of which tears them up. And they tend to be patched, not repaved, for a lot of years.

You can have some pretty crazy springs ride decently if you put them in a narrow set of parameters, but physics is not something you can suspend. And the stiffer the wheel rate is, the less compliant the suspension is mostly to the bigger harsher bumps, less of an issue on rolling types.

Now, there is a game with the shocks too, the two have to be happy together, and this is why you see things like the big fancy Multimatic Spool Valve stuff on the ZL1 1LE, because well, shocks matter.

Case in point, the way I am setting my version of the UMI/Strano coil-overs up vs. how they are. We are using different rates in competition, I'm sticking with a softer rate, they are opting to go stiffer. I clearly think my way is preferable but the dampers can control higher rates without issue. There are some other tweaks that separate what I do in the final product from what they do, and I can supply them with various different rates if you prefer, which is part of the plus side with coil-overs, you can change rate and height which you can't with normal springs without spending more and still not having complete control over your height, but that's another thread.

So yes, my springs are not ballistically stiff, they aren't meant to be. They are stiffer than Eibach, but also ride better in most folk's eyes.

In the end everyone has an opinion, and no amount of arguing will end that. So, I recommend thinking hard about what you want from the car. What you know about the various options. If you have questions, call me. I carry lots of stuff, not just my own. I carry way more options than ANYONE ELSE HERE, bar none. My job is to make customer's happy, if we think that the springs I designed will do that (and did for that purpose), then great. If not, we have lots of other things available. And while I'm not a fan, I can even sell those red springs (you heard me, I can..... should you be so inclined). But they don't have the white ones.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:52 PM   #35
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Sam, have you driven a Fbody with 800+ front and 200+ rear spring rates with everything else (sway bars/watts link etc) paired well with said springs?

If so why don't you like them? I notice you bash higher spring rates quite often and promote softer springs (which you have a hand in making your own to sell).
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:30 PM   #36
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Yes. Why don't I like them? Because it's not necessary. Period. Now if you want to run the car stiffer than you need to I guess that's your call.

I picked this particular video for a simple reason. You can see the horizon, how floppy does that look? And it's on Hoosier's, not low grip street tires.

In fact my car, the one in this video... came with PENSKE's (which I also sell if you want, others here don't) and 1000 fronts on it. I drove it, I raced it. And I did so in part so I could assess it vs. my stuff. And I did that late last year, AND I still have those parts if I want to mess with them more in the future. Anyway, isn't that what you want from your setup guy?

Yes, my springs aren't super stiff. Yes, I like them the way they are. It's easy for those folks newer to come in and say they have a better product, and folks are inclined to listen because "NEW". And there are times you can improve something of course. You seem to imply that I am telling folks things to suit my spring setup. Couldn't be further from the truth.

It'd be easy to follow the "must be stiff to work" bandwagon, and some do that. I don't agree that is the case, but of course should someone want to do that with my coil-overs, we can if you so choose and there is plenty of damping in the shocks to control higher rates.

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Old 11-06-2017, 03:36 PM   #37
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Look. We can play this he said/he said game forever. I find if frustrating at times to have to defend my work given the results that have been proven out over the years. Marketing is not my gig, and it's hard to do battle with folks that flood forums and spout claims.

I can never do that, I'm too small to do that. I don't want to do that. The proof is in the pudding. It is up to you what you want to try, and who you want to align yourself with on a technical side.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:46 PM   #38
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Here's another one, different angle. This was from this summer..... this was not on Hoosier's but BFG Rival S's @ Gingerman Raceway. In fact this is the event the car broke, pushrod and some other stuff. Since it's been down I have not gotten to run it since.

BUT, there were a number of other 4th gens there, a few from other suspension companies. All with more power than mine (it was a stock head/cam LS1 here). One with an IRS, one with a 383, one with a 416, etc. And I was the quickest by a few seconds. And that Corvette, it's a decidedly not stock C6Z06, for reference.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:24 PM   #39
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Yes. Why don't I like them? Because it's not necessary. Period. Now if you want to run the car stiffer than you need to I guess that's your call.

https://youtu.be/kES9T0tTYEc I picked this particular video for a simple reason. You can see the horizon, how floppy does that look? And it's on Hoosier's, not low grip street tires.

In fact my car, the one in this video... came with PENSKE's (which I also sell if you want, others here don't) and 1000 fronts on it. I drove it, I raced it. And I did so in part so I could assess it vs. my stuff. And I did that late last year, AND I still have those parts if I want to mess with them more in the future. Anyway, isn't that what you want from your setup guy?

Yes, my springs aren't super stiff. Yes, I like them the way they are. It's easy for those folks newer to come in and say they have a better product, and folks are inclined to listen because "NEW". And there are times you can improve something of course. You seem to imply that I am telling folks things to suit my spring setup. Couldn't be further from the truth.

It'd be easy to follow the "must be stiff to work" bandwagon, and some do that. I don't agree that is the case, but of course should someone want to do that with my coil-overs, we can if you so choose and there is plenty of damping in the shocks to control higher rates.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SOMEONE STOLE YOUR RADIO!!!!

Gettin worked up a bit today Sam, no. Not even much traffic on this thread.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:37 PM   #40
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Yes, worked up today. There is no history of internet experts or second, third or fourth guessing, not at all.

As for the traffic comment, ok there isn't a lot of it here. Fine. I guess I should only respond to the threads with massive traffic instead of ones with pertinent details.
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