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I did but road racing and autocross usually have perfect road surfaces, or road racing does anyway, and even though I like to participate in those the other 95% of my fun driving is on mountain and back roads with FAR from ideal road surfaces. I think it just comes down to solid axles and bad roads where an IRS gains the biggest advantage. The Celica was only 2-3 years ago and it was a '95 model with almost twice the mileage on it as the Firebird, so I think it's a fair enough comparison in that regard. Yes the Celica is a sports compact and the Firebird is a sports muscle car thing, but still. It's just based on all the feedback and research I'm under the impression that I'll need to do all the following in one fatal swoop:
Strano or UMI springs
KONI shocks
Fays2 or MWC Watt's link
Strano 35mm front sway bar
Springs and shocks together only make sense to do at once, well then you need to correct the rear roll center and axle placement and the only way to do that is an adjustable PHB or Watt's link and I know I don't want a PHB setup, well then since my sway bar setup was for a one year 1LE with base V8 springs I'll then need to change the front bar after the new springs. So around $1,500-2000 to gamble on rather or not that'll make the car do what I want when I can take that $1,500-2,000 and sell my car then use all that towards a MR2 or Miata and KNOW it'll do what I want.
Of course reading that out loud it seems like the easy solution is just sell the Firebird, but it's not that easy since aside from the rear suspension I really like the car. Well that and I wanted a F-body EXACTLY like the one I have now for years; Yeah I'm weird and wanted a LT-1 hardtop Formula over a LS-1 T-top Trans Am. I just wish there was someone nearby with the suspension pieces I want to do so then I can know definitively rather or not I should bother throwing $1,500-2000 down a hole never to see it again. I know I'm the only one that can make that decision ultimately, but since the aforementioned won't happen it'd be nice to have a frame of reference from someone that's been there done that. Surely I'm not the only person in the world to like and own both Japanese sports cars and American muscle cars.
Originally Posted by Boxxx
I guess basically I want to know if I can make the Firebird handle like and feel like a sports car despite the solid axle, I don't want it to be a muscle car I want it to be a sports car. Right or wrong, realistic or fantasy; That's what it boils down to. To me as the car is it straddles the line between a muscle car and a sports car, it's not quite fully one way or the other so can I get it to transition all the way to being a sports car is what I want to know. If so great; I'll get springs, shocks, Watt's link, sway bars, etc... If not I'll sell it and get a MR2. Though it'll take someone that's owned Japanese or European sports cars and modified the F-body to answer this. I don't know why this didn't occur to me until just now, but that's truly the answer I'm seeking.
Originally Posted by Boxxx
I think that's my problem is I want it all in one vehicle; power with handling capability and good feel. Though if I could only pick two it'd be handling capability and feel, I can do without power. My Celica and Miata were far from powerful, but once you're up to speed it really doesn't matter. Though with the Miata you can always turbocharge or supercharge it, and the MR2 can be 2GR-FE or 4th gen 3S-GTE swapped.
Thanks I'll have to check that out, I have a cousin in Madison county that does autocross events all the time so she'll probably be there. Will have to ask her.
Auto-x and road courses may not have pot holes but they're for the most part far from perfect. Bumps, dips, creases, seams, transitions, and thresholds are all to common to upset cars'
You're all over the place with your bantering, cars a nothing but a waste of money... doesn't matter the platform... so whether you sell the firebird today (for a loss) and get MR2 tomorrow OR keep the firebird and get the suggested items... you're "throwing money down a hole never to see it again"
I've owned numerous American and Japanese vehicles... as you can see from my signature... the toy is the Camaro and the daily driven cars are the Japanese. Quality, fit/finish, and finesse is not a strong suit of a car engineered essentially in the 1980's however.... the bang for buck, especially with a LS1/T56... you can't go wrong for the money (IMO anyway).
See but if I do all the things to the Firebird and am still unhappy then I'd have been better off getting a Miata or MR2 and working with it to begin with instead of after the fact. Actually it's my fault for going outside of my comfort zone, I knew what I liked but I decided to try something new anyway. So it's a matter of taking that risk or playing it safe, and I'm inclined to playing it safe. I don't know, I guess I was just wanting some kind of confirmation that despite the solid axle the car could still have world class handling and feel before throwing money at parts and possibly still being unhappy. What I really need is to drive/ride in a car that's already had everything done, then I'd have my answer definitively. Asking for personal reviews was the next best thing. Maybe "bigdaddybones30" is right and I should just sell it and get something else, at least then there's no risk or doubt for me.
If you know how to drive, you'll be happy after you do 'all the things' to your Firebird. It'll be a very capable car, so you really should focus on your driving instead of the car.
I couldn't agree more. You know what cars are "momentum" cars? Every car. You want to know why your car isn't a momentum car? Your driving. I don't mean to insult you, but the answer lies there. There is no such thing as a momentum car in a performance driving situation, no matter what you are driving the goal is to maintain momentum.
Want to know how to solve all your problems? Take the money you were going to waste on a new car and go to a performance driving school. You will be amazed what you can learn and how much your driving will improve. It will help you gain the confidence behind the wheel that you state you are lacking.
Also, while those KYB shocks are good for other models of cars - they flat out suck for this platform. Get a good set of shocks and your confidence in the car will increase.
My driving is fine, I'm not claiming to be Michael Shumacher or Mario Andretti but I know how to handle a car. Yes I have room for improvement as does everyone else, but funny how I didn't have ANY problems in any OTHER car I've owned. I can maintain speed through corners by manhandling it, but then the back of the car dances around the entire time. Fine, sorry for bothering everyone and trying to gain a better understanding of the car instead of being like, "LOL MUSCLE CARS SUCK AND CAN NEVER TURN!" and just selling it and moving on. Like seriously, I come in with an open mind and being respectful and then get treated like I was coming in here bashing them. Things don't translate well in writing at times so if it seems like I was bashing the car I wasn't, in fact I think I complimented it at one point. Again sorry for trying to sort things out, I'll either do the mods and keep it or I'll just sell it and go back to what I'm comfortable with.
Here, thought it might help put my situation into perspective by putting the other cars I've owned:
1988 Toyota Supra
1989 Toyota Supra
1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT
1995 Toyota Celica
1990 Mazda Miata
So the Firebird is my first solid axle car, and it feels and acts entirely different from every other car I've owned. Also the car is fine and it's not like the rear dancing around is out of control and ready to go into a death spiral, but it is there however subtle it may be and it's slightly unnerving since that's something that doesn't happen in an IRS car. I didn't mean to annoy or upset anyone, I was just genuinely trying to sort things in my mind so I'd know how I'd want to proceed with things. If the Firebird had IRS this wouldn't even be an issue, because the rest of the car is actually really good. To me it just feels like the SRA doesn't belong given the rest of the car, if that makes any sense. Before buying the Firebird I tested a couple of SN95 Mustangs, one of them was a SRA Cobra, and they were absolutely terrible. The Firebird is so much better, and it actually feels more like the imports I've owned than it did those Mustangs I tested. So I guess that's why I've put myself into the predicament of comparing them even though I know I shouldn't, and why I want the Firebird to be more like the imports I've owned.
First I want to thank those that took the time to post and help me, and secondly I again want to apologize to any I may've upset as that was the furthest thing from my intentions. After a long drive and thinking things over the only issue I really have with the car is the rear feeling floaty and dancing around when being pushed hard through crappy mountain and back roads, when I say pushed hard I mean doing 50% over the speed limit so the car performs well it's just that matter of feel from the back. From here and other places doing springs and shocks should stop the floating feeling and the rear wanting to dance when pushed, and worst case there's always the Watt's link that should eliminate it entirely.
I bought the Firebird for a reason and that was because as a whole it offers the best overall performance for the dollar I believe(and it has magical V8 noises and torque), plus I've wanted a fourth gen JUST like it since I was a little kid when they first came out. It took me years of searching to find one just like it that was in great shape and lovingly taken care of, so if I sold it I'd probably never find another one like it. I just need to get back to that feeling when I first got the car, that head over heels "THIS IS THE BEST CAR EVER" love I had for it. I think doing springs and shocks as suggested will be a good first step towards getting it where I want it, so I'll be doing that once I'm in a situation do such. Long story short lifetime medical problems sure have a way ruining every other aspect of life. Oh I remembered some brochures I found and GM themselves called the fourth gen a sports car:
.... the only issue I really have with the car is the rear feeling floaty and dancing around when being pushed hard through crappy mountain and back roads, when I say pushed hard I mean doing 50% over the speed limit so the car performs well it's just that matter of feel from the back. From here and other places doing springs and shocks should stop the floating feeling and the rear wanting to dance when pushed, and worst case there's always the Watt's link that should eliminate it entirely...
I routinely do more than 100% of speed limit on back roads and that's just putting around... not "pushing" the car I'd say.
Unless there's worn out joints or bushing on your 20+ year old car (hint hint)... it shouldn't be feeling floaty to the extent you're describing
A lot of the back roads here are really tight and narrow, the 40-45 mph speed limit is the limit for something that's not meant for handling so 50% over is plenty enough. It's floaty enough to notice and it's only the rear on the surface of the moon we use for roads around here, perfectly smooth roads it doesn't do it but those are few and far between sadly.
I already have new BFG Sport COMP-2 tires that was done a few months after I got it last year when I put on the sawblades, but I'll order KONI shocks, Strano springs, and some poly and rubber bushings here soon. Then can take it from there. Again thanks everyone for helping.
There it's official, listings have been taken down.
A lot of the back roads here are really tight and narrow, the 40-45 mph speed limit is the limit for something that's not meant for handling so 50% over is plenty enough. It's floaty enough to notice and it's only the rear on the surface of the moon we use for roads around here, perfectly smooth roads it doesn't do it but those are few and far between sadly.
I already have new BFG Sport COMP-2 tires that was done a few months after I got it last year when I put on the sawblades, but I'll order KONI shocks, Strano springs, and some poly and rubber bushings here soon. Then can take it from there. Again thanks everyone for helping.
There it's official, listings have been taken down.
make sure to double check
front:
upper control arm bushings
upper ball joint
shock mounts
lower control arm bushings
lower ball joint
sway bar bushings
inner and outer the rods
rear:
torque arm bushing
Control arm bushings
panhard bar bushings (I'd replace with an adjustable unit)
sway bar bushings
I like to blast through the hills in my Camaro. I rode the same mountain roads on my bike for the last 30yrs, I didn't start out fast, but after some tweaking on the bike and learning, I got there. You just have to get used to the car, after a while you will get faster.
We carry all the components you are looking for in one place and offer package discounts on multiple items. We offer 2 set of springs in different rates; 550/160 rates and 725/210 rates. Both compliment very well with the Koni Sport yellows.
Our sway bars are 35mm front/25mm rear. We also offer a 100% bolt in Watts link that has the most adjustment of any available and the best clearance for aftermarket rear ends and exhausts. We also offer other items that will aid in this including subframe connectors, control arms, etc that eliminate chassis flex and fatigue and excess slop and movement from the stock bushings and stamped steel parts. If you want to go over options and pricing feel free to give me a call.
We carry all the components you are looking for in one place and offer package discounts on multiple items. We offer 2 set of springs in different rates; 550/160 rates and 725/210 rates. Both compliment very well with the Koni Sport yellows.
Our sway bars are 35mm front/25mm rear. We also offer a 100% bolt in Watts link that has the most adjustment of any available and the best clearance for aftermarket rear ends and exhausts. We also offer other items that will aid in this including subframe connectors, control arms, etc that eliminate chassis flex and fatigue and excess slop and movement from the stock bushings and stamped steel parts. If you want to go over options and pricing feel free to give me a call.
I'm indecisive enough, it took a month and this thread to finally decide on keeping the car I already owned.
Almost seemed like the silver one was slowing them down. I wish our mountain roads were nice and smoothly paved like that, they must be in California. Strano springs and KONI shocks with Strano sways eh, time and time again it seems like the Strano springs and KONI shocks are the best combo. The UMI springs did interest me though since it was the same rates as their coil-overs, and it was linear and not progressive for the rear spring. Would be cool if someone did a Strano/KONI and UMI/KONI side by side test.
07-18-2017, 06:04 AM
Actually I'd love a LS swapped FC S5 RX-7, that or a LS swapped Z32 300ZX would be nice too. 