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Good thread / write-up! I did this brake swap last winter and was in the process of doing a full write-up to post on here, but like most things didn't get it fully completed. I will add here what I had been writing up though, just to add what info I have to what everyone else has already posted. Some of it is duplicated but I think some of the part info and numbers might be helpful:
Parts Needed
Calipers -
There are several different GM / AC Delco part numbers that work for this swap, but all are the standard GM 4-piston Brembo’s with different paint jobs. And as far as I have learned, they are physically the same calipers as the 4-piston CTS-V / Camaro SS Brembo’s, just with shorter mounting ears to fit over the smaller diameter rotors. The ATS Brembo’s are generally the cheapest, just because they come with a less flashy matte grey paint job and say “Cadillac” on them – the C7 base Brembo’s are physically the same, but are generally pricier because they have gloss paint jobs and Corvette decals.
The following are GM part numbers for calipers that work for this swap, with the AC Delco PN in parentheses:
There are likely other flavors of C7 calipers that work, but these are the options that I’m aware of. If you go aftermarket, just make sure you’re getting ATS option code J55 calipers, or C7 option code JL9. Also keep in mind the GM part numbers have been superceded a few times, so ‘older’ version part numbers might still exist out there, and there might be ‘new’ numbers in the future. These are current PN’s as of the GM EPC today.
Unless you shell out for the nicer finish and decals of the C7 calipers, you might also want to take the opportunity to paint these calipers while they are still fresh and new. I sprayed mine with Duplicolor caliper paint (I believe it was called “Real Red”) and applied a set of eBay Brembo decals in white. Do them up however you like and they will show very well – the OEM ATS calipers are a matte grey with raised white Cadillac lettering, so if you’re really **** you will want to remove or sand down the white lettering so it doesn’t show through your paint as a raised portion.
Caliper Pin / Hardware Kit –
The GM calipers do not come with the hardware, so you need to buy a hardware kit, unless your pad set comes with it (some do). The GM part number for this kit is 22813180, which comes with 2 pins and 1 spring, good for one side / caliper.
Caliper Bolts –
The caliper mounting bolts are larger than the stock F-Body ones, so you will also need to buy 4 of these. The GM part number is 11611085, which is an M14x2.0 thread, 45mm in length, grade 10.5 with threadlock. If you don’t want to buy the GM bolts, you can likely source these at your local hardware / fastener store.
Brake Pads –
This probably goes without saying, but you of course need the correct brake pads. The GM / OEM C7 pads are PN 84233021, but they are very pricey OEM Brembo pads that have great bite, but also a lot of dust. Pad choice is up to preference, and you can get anything from a standard replacement at NAPA up to more track oriented pads. Just make sure that whatever you get, they are compatible with current-gen ATS J55 or C7 JL9 brakes. And since the calipers are identical to the CTS-V / Camaro 4-pistons other than the mounting ears, the pads in most cases are the same as well. I used Power Stop pads, and they were the same PN that went on my Regal GS with 14” rotor Brembo’s.
Rotors –
These are again more of a personal preference as to brand, but in this case you need C7 JL9 rotors, the ATS J55 rotors will NOT work. Both are 12.6” in diameter, but the C7 JL9 rotors are the only ones that have the correct 71mm center bore and 5x4.75” bolt pattern. The ATS rotors have a difference center bore and bolt pattern and will not work on an F-Body.
GM PN for the rotors is 20981819 (AC Delco 177-1155), but again these are pricey OEM versions. I am using NAPA blanks, PN NDR 488821618, but you can use literally anything that fits a C7 JL9.
Steering Knuckle –
This is something that may be overlooked, but you do need to start with 98-02 “LS” style steering knuckles. The 93-97 “LT” style knuckles use a different caliper and thus a different bolt spacing for the caliper mounting ears. These ATS / C7 calipers mount up to the 98-02 knuckles (with drilling, will get to that later), so if you have a 93-97 F-Body you will need to source the newer style knuckles. Everything else on the knuckles is interchangeable, so they will bolt right up in place of your 93-97 ones.
*Brake Hoses –
I put an asterisk beside this one because you may not absolutely need new hoses, but I found that I did. Some others have said they’ve been able to make everything fit and reach with their stock hoses, but when I dry fit everything I didn’t like how tight the hoses were pulled with the steering at full lock.
The ATS and C7 hoses won’t work because the fittings that go to your hard lines are not the same as F-Body hoses. However, there are companies that make ‘custom’ lines specifically for the CTS-V in F-Body conversion, and these lines work just the same on this setup. I got my hoses from Kore3, and they were the CTS-V swap hoses, and I would highly recommend them. The hoses are built very strong, they have plenty of length, and the price was fairly reasonable. They’re not the only ones who make hoses like this, but after contacting others that I wasn’t so happy with, I’d definitely recommend going with the Kore3 hoses.
*Wheel Spacers –
This is another asterisk because you will have to dry fit and measure and estimate what or if you need spacers, but I did, and from what I’ve seen of others doing this swap most need at least some amount of spacer. The 12.6” rotors fit a 17” wheel perfectly fine around the outside of the rotor, but depending on the spoke design and offset of your wheels, they will likely contact the outboard side of the caliper on the back side of the spokes. Spacers will put the wheels further outboard from your hub and give you the clearance you need to fit the calipers.
For reference, I have OEM WS6 Sportline wheels on a Trans Am, and I needed 20mm spacers. That has given me about 5-6mm clearance to the calipers, and also set the wheels pretty well flush to the fenders – overall it has given me a good fit both for the brakes and aesthetically. Others I’ve read have only needed a 5mm spacer, so it really is something you will have to figure out as you dry fit everything.
Do your research on types and brands of spacers and what else you will need. Generally, anything 5-15mm is a ‘slide on’ type spacer that fits over your studs, while 20mm+ are the ‘bolt on’ style that bolts onto your studs, and has its own set of new studs. The ones that slide over your stock studs usually require longer studs so you get a safe amount of threads on your lug nuts, and both styles you should aim to get hub-centric spacers.
Installing these brakes is mostly similar to replacing the stock F-Body brakes, you’re just using the new components. I don’t plan on going into great detail on how to remove the old parts or the process of installing brakes, as I’ll assume there is a level of competency here. What I will go into more detail on is where the install differs from a ‘standard’ brake job.
1. Remove all of your old brake components, including calipers and rotors, as well as the hoses if you’re installing new ones. Clean up any of the mounting surfaces.
a. Pro tip so you don’t cause yourself more grief / headaches later on when bleeding – either pinch off the brake hoses with vice grips (if you’re keeping those hoses), or use a brake pedal depressor or a stick to hold the brake pedal all the way to the floor before removing the brake hoses from the calipers. With the brake pedal all the way to the floor, the plunger in the brake master is pushed past the port internally that pushes fluid out to the lines. This will stop your open lines/hoses from sucking air in.
2. If you have a 93-97 F-Body, remove your steering knuckles and install the 98-02 knuckles. This involves removing the knuckle from the upper and lower ball joints, and the tie rod, and if you’re re-using your hubs unbolting them and installing on the new knuckles. If you already have 98-02 knuckles you’re good to go.
3. Drill out the caliper mounting holes on the steering knuckle to 14mm to accept the new caliper mounting bolts. The new bolts are larger than the stock F-Body ones, so you will need to drill them larger. There are 14mm metric drill bits out there, but if you can’t find one a 9/16” drill bit will work too, which is what I used. It is slightly bigger than 14mm, but not enough to make a difference – it worked fine for me.
4. Install your new rotor, calipers, pads, hoses, etc. Like I said I won’t go into great detail on this one because there’s nothing out of the ordinary process, just putting on different parts. One thing I noted, which I’m not sure how much it matters, but I noticed every automotive brake bleeder valve I’ve ever seen points up – since F-Body calipers are mounted on the opposite side of the rotor as they are on an ATS/C7, you need to put the LH caliper on the RHS and vice versa, in order to keep the bleeders pointing up.
5. Last step is to just bleed your brakes. If you pinched off your hoses or used a pedal depressor, then this should be a fairly easy task to just bleed the two front brakes. Keep in mind if you let air back in the system or let the brake master cylinder bleed out of fluid that this will be a much more difficult process. The ABS module needs to have all of the solenoids “homed”, and you have a lot more air to get out. My suggestion is don’t mess this up like I did, and make sure you follow the proper precautions before you start taking hoses / calipers off. Your life will be a whole lot easier.
When converting over from a stock LT1 brake system, does anyone know if LS1 brake lines will work? Would I need conversion brake lines?
I did this swap on my LT1 car, and I would highly recommend the conversion brake lines from Kore3. I read an older write-up of someone that did the swap on their LS1 car and said they were able to make the LS1 hoses reach, so I bought a set off Rock Auto when I did the swap, only to find that when I went to install they were too short IMO. You can connect them, but at full lock / turn they are very stretched and likely pinched off. Not very safe IMO.
The Kore3 hoses fit great, they're stainless steel braided, and they weren't that expensive. In the grand scheme of the whole brake job the cost on them is pretty small. You also get a bit of a discount if you get the rears as well (just tell them OEM rears and Brembo swap fronts), and then you have the full braided stainless upgrade.
Originally Posted by M249sawmkii
Hey guys, I have a couple of questions about the conversion as I am simply an "As I need to learn it" mechanic lol
First, I assume that the 6th gen SS 4 piston calipers have the identical specs as the Brembo's you put on your car just decaled for the Camaro?
Next, in any of the conversions to 4 or 6 piston, does this put added strain on the master cylinder? If so, is there a stronger compatible bolt-on to swap with?
Lastly, I have C6 base vette rims, 18" front 19" rear. The rears already have 1" spacers for clearance issues, but the fronts aren't spaced. Does anyone have any experience or know if I would need a spacer in the front with these rims?
I appreciate the help guys!
The Camaro Brembo's are not identical, even the 4-pistons. The difference is in the length/size of the "mounting ears" on the calipers. They have the same piston sizes/bores, but the ears that are part of the casting are longer on the Camaro, because they fit over larger rotors. You need to target the Brembo's that come with any of the 12.6" rotor options, which is why everyone specifically says the ATS or JL9 C7 Brembos.
I'm not familiar with Master Cylinder upgrades, but I've been running this swap the whole summer with the stock MC and haven't had any issues. The pedal is very nice and firm and doesn't need excessive travel to engage, which I think are warning signs that you need a larger MC to move more fluid. Not saying an upgrade doesn't exist or couldn't be helpful, but I think there are lots of people tracking the CTS Brembo upgrades on the stock MC. And if you go too big with the MC the pedal will be rock hard and almost no travel.
You will definitely need some spacer with those wheels to clear, how much is hard to say. I've got 1 inch on the rear of mine with stock WS6 wheels, and I ended up doing 20mm in the front with the brake swap. The wheels don't "stick out" or look ugly in any way, so I'm happy with the look overall. 15mm might have worked like others said they used, but by my measurements I'd only be left with 1-2mm of clearance, and that seems awfully close. The other upside of using 20mm spacers is that H&R makes that size in a bolt-on style spacer, which seems a little more stable IMO, and you also don't need extended studs (since they bolt onto the existing studs and have their own second set of studs).
Brake Calipers (Off of a Base Model Stingray, ATS with performance brakes RPO J55 or Buick Regal GS with Brembo package) Buick Regal GS Calipers - 172-2614 and 172-2615.
Also not to take anything away from the good work that you've done, but just wanted to point out to anyone looking to source parts that the Regal GS Brembos DO NOT fit under 17" wheels. They are the longer-eared calipers and fit with the 355mm / 14" diameter rotors that you'll need at least 18" wheels to fit over. I had one of these Regals and remembered they were larger, and also confirmed in the parts catalogue.
Calipers must be from a JL9 or J55 Corvette or ATS.
Good thread / write-up! I did this brake swap last winter and was in the process of doing a full write-up to post on here, but like most things didn't get it fully completed. I will add here what I had been writing up though, just to add what info I have to what everyone else has already posted. Some of it is duplicated but I think some of the part info and numbers might be helpful:
Parts Needed
Calipers -
There are several different GM / AC Delco part numbers that work for this swap, but all are the standard GM 4-piston Brembo’s with different paint jobs. And as far as I have learned, they are physically the same calipers as the 4-piston CTS-V / Camaro SS Brembo’s, just with shorter mounting ears to fit over the smaller diameter rotors. The ATS Brembo’s are generally the cheapest, just because they come with a less flashy matte grey paint job and say “Cadillac” on them – the C7 base Brembo’s are physically the same, but are generally pricier because they have gloss paint jobs and Corvette decals.
The following are GM part numbers for calipers that work for this swap, with the AC Delco PN in parentheses:
There are likely other flavors of C7 calipers that work, but these are the options that I’m aware of. If you go aftermarket, just make sure you’re getting ATS option code J55 calipers, or C7 option code JL9. Also keep in mind the GM part numbers have been superceded a few times, so ‘older’ version part numbers might still exist out there, and there might be ‘new’ numbers in the future. These are current PN’s as of the GM EPC today.
Unless you shell out for the nicer finish and decals of the C7 calipers, you might also want to take the opportunity to paint these calipers while they are still fresh and new. I sprayed mine with Duplicolor caliper paint (I believe it was called “Real Red”) and applied a set of eBay Brembo decals in white. Do them up however you like and they will show very well – the OEM ATS calipers are a matte grey with raised white Cadillac lettering, so if you’re really **** you will want to remove or sand down the white lettering so it doesn’t show through your paint as a raised portion.
Caliper Pin / Hardware Kit –
The GM calipers do not come with the hardware, so you need to buy a hardware kit, unless your pad set comes with it (some do). The GM part number for this kit is 22813180, which comes with 2 pins and 1 spring, good for one side / caliper.
Caliper Bolts –
The caliper mounting bolts are larger than the stock F-Body ones, so you will also need to buy 4 of these. The GM part number is 11611085, which is an M14x2.0 thread, 45mm in length, grade 10.5 with threadlock. If you don’t want to buy the GM bolts, you can likely source these at your local hardware / fastener store.
Brake Pads –
This probably goes without saying, but you of course need the correct brake pads. The GM / OEM C7 pads are PN 84233021, but they are very pricey OEM Brembo pads that have great bite, but also a lot of dust. Pad choice is up to preference, and you can get anything from a standard replacement at NAPA up to more track oriented pads. Just make sure that whatever you get, they are compatible with current-gen ATS J55 or C7 JL9 brakes. And since the calipers are identical to the CTS-V / Camaro 4-pistons other than the mounting ears, the pads in most cases are the same as well. I used Power Stop pads, and they were the same PN that went on my Regal GS with 14” rotor Brembo’s.
Rotors –
These are again more of a personal preference as to brand, but in this case you need C7 JL9 rotors, the ATS J55 rotors will NOT work. Both are 12.6” in diameter, but the C7 JL9 rotors are the only ones that have the correct 71mm center bore and 5x4.75” bolt pattern. The ATS rotors have a difference center bore and bolt pattern and will not work on an F-Body.
GM PN for the rotors is 20981819 (AC Delco 177-1155), but again these are pricey OEM versions. I am using NAPA blanks, PN NDR 488821618, but you can use literally anything that fits a C7 JL9.
Steering Knuckle –
This is something that may be overlooked, but you do need to start with 98-02 “LS” style steering knuckles. The 93-97 “LT” style knuckles use a different caliper and thus a different bolt spacing for the caliper mounting ears. These ATS / C7 calipers mount up to the 98-02 knuckles (with drilling, will get to that later), so if you have a 93-97 F-Body you will need to source the newer style knuckles. Everything else on the knuckles is interchangeable, so they will bolt right up in place of your 93-97 ones.
*Brake Hoses –
I put an asterisk beside this one because you may not absolutely need new hoses, but I found that I did. Some others have said they’ve been able to make everything fit and reach with their stock hoses, but when I dry fit everything I didn’t like how tight the hoses were pulled with the steering at full lock.
The ATS and C7 hoses won’t work because the fittings that go to your hard lines are not the same as F-Body hoses. However, there are companies that make ‘custom’ lines specifically for the CTS-V in F-Body conversion, and these lines work just the same on this setup. I got my hoses from Kore3, and they were the CTS-V swap hoses, and I would highly recommend them. The hoses are built very strong, they have plenty of length, and the price was fairly reasonable. They’re not the only ones who make hoses like this, but after contacting others that I wasn’t so happy with, I’d definitely recommend going with the Kore3 hoses.
*Wheel Spacers –
This is another asterisk because you will have to dry fit and measure and estimate what or if you need spacers, but I did, and from what I’ve seen of others doing this swap most need at least some amount of spacer. The 12.6” rotors fit a 17” wheel perfectly fine around the outside of the rotor, but depending on the spoke design and offset of your wheels, they will likely contact the outboard side of the caliper on the back side of the spokes. Spacers will put the wheels further outboard from your hub and give you the clearance you need to fit the calipers.
For reference, I have OEM WS6 Sportline wheels on a Trans Am, and I needed 20mm spacers. That has given me about 5-6mm clearance to the calipers, and also set the wheels pretty well flush to the fenders – overall it has given me a good fit both for the brakes and aesthetically. Others I’ve read have only needed a 5mm spacer, so it really is something you will have to figure out as you dry fit everything.
Do your research on types and brands of spacers and what else you will need. Generally, anything 5-15mm is a ‘slide on’ type spacer that fits over your studs, while 20mm+ are the ‘bolt on’ style that bolts onto your studs, and has its own set of new studs. The ones that slide over your stock studs usually require longer studs so you get a safe amount of threads on your lug nuts, and both styles you should aim to get hub-centric spacers.
well typed up. This thread and this post should be made into a sticky
The GM calipers do not come with the hardware, so you need to buy a hardware kit, unless your pad set comes with it (some do). The GM part number for this kit is 22813180, which comes with 2 pins and 1 spring, good for one side / caliper.
I had been reading something wrong.. too many part numbers and package numbers thrown around.
There are C7 base calipers (takes 12.6 rotors), and C7 z51 big calipers (takes 13.6 rotors).
To be clear: Corvette J55 package (ie z51 big caliper) is NOT the same part as J55 on ATS Cadillac (small caliper). Dumb package names.
The z51 calipers do not fit under 17" 3pc wheels. I had bought the z51 big calipers (by mistake).
The z51 big calipers do fit under 17" Firehawk wheels and 17" stock (2001) wheels because the wheels do not have a hump or significant taper in the inside of the barrel, but they *just barely* fit. Literally there is 1 mm of clearance at the top of the caliper (though more like 1/4 inch at the bottom and back side).
The base calipers probably fit under 3pc wheels, though with a small/reasonable clearance (~1/4 inch).
The base calipers appear smaller, see z-camaro's picture with his firehawk rims for an accurate guage.
Last edited by Chris Paveglio; 10-23-2018 at 08:03 PM.
I made a video (ended up super long, 20 minutes) about doing the swap. Lots of nice slow detail shots and the pitfalls I ran into (haha) firstly that I bought the wrong calipers.
Hey guys. I bought the wrong calipers. Yes I’m a dummy. I paid $300 for the CTSV 4 piston front calipers brand new and another $300 to have them powder coated Brembo red. Between shipping and powder coating it took like 3 weeks to get done. Wondering if anyone would be interested in these for $400 just so I can move them and get what I should have in the first place. Thanks lmk. FYI they’ve only been on the vehicle like 3 days and I haven’t driven more than 25 miles. Brand new pads and pin kit comes with it as well.
Glenn
What are the part numbers on them? Are they the 1722287 and 1722288 that are used with 5th gen camaro rotors bored to 4th gen ls1 hub size?
What ones were you meaning to get?
See above from my eBay purchased folder
yes - I purchased the 5th gen camaro 14” rotors and bored them to match my 4th gen TA hub size
i am getting the 6 piston for the front
what I’m offering is a super affordable way to do the conversion. And the powder coating Donald Trumps spray painting big time in terms of quality and look and how long it will last. And the white Brembo copy is not a sticker it’s coated on.
LMK
Last edited by Tornadogward; 05-18-2019 at 06:22 PM.
Ah so you are going with the 6 piston like the 2014 Stingray ZL1 part number 20944529 & 20944530?
Do those 6 pistons ones work with those 5th gen rotors you have or do you need different rotors also? Clearances with your wheels the same as the 4 pistons? What wheels do you have?
Ah so you are going with the 6 piston like the 2014 Stingray ZL1 part number 20944529 & 20944530?
Do those 6 pistons ones work with those 5th gen rotors you have or do you need different rotors also? Clearances with your wheels the same as the 4 pistons? What wheels do you have?
Yes. I believe they will work with the 5th gen rotors I have. Clearance might be a bit different but my wheels are 19” and I have hub centric spacers if necessary. Niche gamma - not sure the offset, but in the front they’re 19x9
Great write up thanks! I did need to add some washers to the caliper bolts to make sure the clearance was good like @Chris Paveglio video said. I will also add I have C5 wheels and these calipers clear without spacers.
09-10-2018, 06:56 AM
