BMR K-member broke!!
#62
Launching!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Neshanic Station, NJ
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by trackbird
Though, this is not the first thing we've seen break that came from the BMR shop. That is part of the issue. I've never seen a Hotchkiss LCA or PHB break (though I don't like poly/poly parts), I've never seen a Lakewood LCA fail (even though they seem to be cheaply made), I've never seen an LG Motorsports part break, etc. This trail of broken parts seems to lead to BMR's doorstep. Now, maybe it's because they sell 12 times as many parts, I don't know. I know my BMR stuff was cheaply made and was pulled from my car after a year (with rod ends that were "toast"). I'm not slamming BMR (though I am "done" with their parts myself), I'm just stating that they seem to have most of the aftermarket suspension parts failures attributed to their parts. I know of at least 1 and maybe 2 PHB's, 2 K members, 1 poly/poly LCA that just "split", and that is just off the top of my head. I can't think of another company that I can produce a single failure for (ok, I think there were some PA K-members that had issues, but I'm not sure).
I don't hate BMR, I just wish they would make some changes to their designs in the interest of safety. I fear that one of these failures will cost someone dearly and it is not worth it. I understand that there is a demand for inexpensive parts, but if one fails and someone is seriously injured or killed, was it really worth saving $50?
I just have safety concerns and don't want to see anyone injured.
By the way, I used to work in general avaition. A weld failing is not considered normal or acceptable when working on an aircraft. I am not sure it is really ever acceptable, but why shouldn't we hold our cars to standards that are just as high. If the factory weld on the K-member failed, everyone would "go nuts" bitching about GM's quality. Right?
My thoughts.
I don't hate BMR, I just wish they would make some changes to their designs in the interest of safety. I fear that one of these failures will cost someone dearly and it is not worth it. I understand that there is a demand for inexpensive parts, but if one fails and someone is seriously injured or killed, was it really worth saving $50?
I just have safety concerns and don't want to see anyone injured.
By the way, I used to work in general avaition. A weld failing is not considered normal or acceptable when working on an aircraft. I am not sure it is really ever acceptable, but why shouldn't we hold our cars to standards that are just as high. If the factory weld on the K-member failed, everyone would "go nuts" bitching about GM's quality. Right?
My thoughts.
Chris
#63
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (19)
Originally Posted by mitchntx
They sell more so some failure is acceptable? What?
And, you are right ... no product is 100% safe. So buy cheap and hope for the best, right? You use WalMart generic motor oil in your car, right? Same logic ...
And, you are right ... no product is 100% safe. So buy cheap and hope for the best, right? You use WalMart generic motor oil in your car, right? Same logic ...
I NEVER said failure was acceptable because they sell more. I said since they sell maybe 10 times as much stuff as the other producers, more breaks are likely. I think that's pretty much common sense.
And I NEVER said buy cheap and hope for the best. Last time I looked, the BMR peice was $100 more than the PA piece.
Walmart Oil
#64
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (19)
Originally Posted by SilverTAWS6
My friend snapped part and bent an LG torque arm which broke his trans and bent his driveshaft as well (LG did fix the TA for free). Failures do happen to other companies as well as BMR. It sucks when parts break, but I don't think I know any company that has produced a 100% perfect product (of course there are companies who make products that fail more times then not, not excusing those). Usually when I pick what part I'm going to buy it's based on the fact that there isn't an abnormal amount of failures and what kind of customer service they have. It's nice to see that even though it did break, the company is backing the product and taking care of the customer (and good to know they've redesigned the piece that had the failure).
Chris
Chris
What kind of company puts a part on the market of such poor quality!
#65
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by LS1BlackZ28
So you're saying an LG part HAS broken?
What kind of company puts a part on the market of such poor quality!
What kind of company puts a part on the market of such poor quality!
#66
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,604
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
I showed my mechanic the K-member weld points
and where I thought we ought to gusset / strap
them up. Seems like easy and sensible. Probably
will do that next time I have him work on it.
The front end sure feels lighter with the new BMR K
and an alignment; up at least 1/4" ride height and
the nose seems to lift more on acceleration (as it
well should). Lower steering effort, though this
would also have to do with reduced caster.
But I think another pound of steel in the right
spots will make me a lot less uneasy about curbs
and pot-holes. I don't believe the racetrack is the
killer here - I bet it's shock load events and enough
of them, to start and finish cracking off the weld.
and where I thought we ought to gusset / strap
them up. Seems like easy and sensible. Probably
will do that next time I have him work on it.
The front end sure feels lighter with the new BMR K
and an alignment; up at least 1/4" ride height and
the nose seems to lift more on acceleration (as it
well should). Lower steering effort, though this
would also have to do with reduced caster.
But I think another pound of steel in the right
spots will make me a lot less uneasy about curbs
and pot-holes. I don't believe the racetrack is the
killer here - I bet it's shock load events and enough
of them, to start and finish cracking off the weld.
#67
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (19)
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
I don't believe the racetrack is the
killer here - I bet it's shock load events and enough
of them, to start and finish cracking off the weld.
killer here - I bet it's shock load events and enough
of them, to start and finish cracking off the weld.
Which is why I believe these things shouldn't be daily driven, no matter what the manufacturer says.
#68
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Elizabeth, NJ
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fulton:
I know I said the K-member broke during parallel parking, but I don't think it was like "one minute the weld is together, the next it's broken". It probably occured over time, and just so happened to let go parking.
Jimmyblue:
Those were the exact same results I got with my K-member!!
LS1blackZ28:
Another good point. It just so happens that the K-member broke, I'm getting the new one and having it installed, and the Camaro will no longer be a daily since I jyst bought an '89 Jeep Wrangler for everyday use. The Camaro will be a summer cruiser and see the strip. What a coincidence right?!
I know I said the K-member broke during parallel parking, but I don't think it was like "one minute the weld is together, the next it's broken". It probably occured over time, and just so happened to let go parking.
Jimmyblue:
Those were the exact same results I got with my K-member!!
LS1blackZ28:
Another good point. It just so happens that the K-member broke, I'm getting the new one and having it installed, and the Camaro will no longer be a daily since I jyst bought an '89 Jeep Wrangler for everyday use. The Camaro will be a summer cruiser and see the strip. What a coincidence right?!
#70
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
Originally Posted by LS1BlackZ28
Amazing how it got quiet after someone posted an LG part broke. LOL!
Noone ever clamed that LG parts don't break.
But rarely do they turning into a Wendy's parking lot ...
And consider for a moment that the reason LG's K-Member isn't on the market is because they don't want to market crap ...
#71
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi, this is Brett Rockey from BMR. I don't usually post, mostly because I don't have the time to keep up with it, but everybody I know has been sending this link to me so I had to check it out. Let me start by saying that the web is full of misinformation and bias and this thread is a perfect example. I started BMR 6 years ago out of my house. I did it because I thought we needed an alternative to what was available at the time. Basically back then we had Hotchkis, LG, and Granatelli. Good parts but high prices. Never have we "bashed" a competitor to sell our products, that is not our way of doing business. Instead we try to provide a product that is at least equal, if not better, for a more reasonable price. We are known for our customer service and you don't have to wait 4 weeks for your order to be built. This philosophy has got us where we are today.
Everybody has defects, it's inevitable. There is always that poor guy that buys a lemon. With the millions of dollars spent on design, testing, and engineering by the big 3, we still have lemons. We still have recalls. How is this possible if OEM is so great? Because that's reality. We have sold over 800 K-members since they were introduced in July of 2002. This is a very intricate product that is not easy to manufacture. This is why Hotchkis and Granatelli don't make them and LG has been working on one for over a year. Honestly when we first started selling them, there were a few fitment issues, mostly due to aftermarket header variations. Out of these 800+ K-members, their has been 4 total that have failed due to weld quality or structural failure. That's .5 of 1% failure rate. I would definitely prefer that number was zero but lets face it - a 99.5% success rate is far above most companies that manufacture a part intended for the performance automotive industry, let alone a structural race-oriented part. And to warranty a part that is one and a half years old is far more service than you will find elsewhere.
The following story is any companies nightmare but I think it's important to clear the air. It took me a little while to figure this out but one of my very first customers was MitchNTX. At the time, I worked out of my garage and only made control arms and shock tower braces and had just started making panhard rods. I worked a full time job and made parts in the evenings and weekends. I remember Mitch specifically because we had problems with his panhard rod eating rod ends. This was a new, virtually untested market at the time and I had only been running one of these panhard rods on my own car for a few months. I had sold two or three previous to his. Needless to say, the rod ends were not up to par and replacing them only delayed the inevitable. After this learning experience, the product received higher strength chrome moly rod ends and was only marketed as a "race" only item from that day forward. In an effort to fix the problem on Mitch's car and develop a product that was more streetable, I custom built poly-bushed ends for his panhard rod. Without getting too technical, the tubing used was .095" wall thickness DOM. This wall thickness is still used by some companies like Lakewood and Competition Engineering however once this product became an actual part number and produced in quantity, the tubing thickness was increased to .156" wall thickness. Fast forward two years. Mitch's custom prototype panhard rod end breaks and he starts his never ending commitment to bashing anything BMR. In his defense, I agree, I too would be upset. 3 problems with the same part is unnacceptable and for that, I am sorry. This was, however an isolated incident. If it were the norm, BMR would have long been out of business. In this instance, I made every effort initially to fix any problems he had and would have warrantied the part with the new, "production" piece (that has never failed) or provided a refund but instead of calling, he chose to start a personal crusade against BMR. What's the purpose of this story?
1 - Don't listen to what one person has to say. Instead, take advice from the community and make a decision based off 6 years of dedicated commitment and service.
2 - If you do have a problem, give us a call first. If you are still not satisfied, by all means flame away.
As stated earlier, I don't have enough time to maintain forum postings so I won't be replying to any responses to this post. If you have any questions regaurding warranty issues, please send us an email to tech-help@bmrfabrication.com or call us at 813-986-9302. You can ask for Frank or Brett.
Thanks,
Brett Rockey
www.BmrFabrication.com
Everybody has defects, it's inevitable. There is always that poor guy that buys a lemon. With the millions of dollars spent on design, testing, and engineering by the big 3, we still have lemons. We still have recalls. How is this possible if OEM is so great? Because that's reality. We have sold over 800 K-members since they were introduced in July of 2002. This is a very intricate product that is not easy to manufacture. This is why Hotchkis and Granatelli don't make them and LG has been working on one for over a year. Honestly when we first started selling them, there were a few fitment issues, mostly due to aftermarket header variations. Out of these 800+ K-members, their has been 4 total that have failed due to weld quality or structural failure. That's .5 of 1% failure rate. I would definitely prefer that number was zero but lets face it - a 99.5% success rate is far above most companies that manufacture a part intended for the performance automotive industry, let alone a structural race-oriented part. And to warranty a part that is one and a half years old is far more service than you will find elsewhere.
The following story is any companies nightmare but I think it's important to clear the air. It took me a little while to figure this out but one of my very first customers was MitchNTX. At the time, I worked out of my garage and only made control arms and shock tower braces and had just started making panhard rods. I worked a full time job and made parts in the evenings and weekends. I remember Mitch specifically because we had problems with his panhard rod eating rod ends. This was a new, virtually untested market at the time and I had only been running one of these panhard rods on my own car for a few months. I had sold two or three previous to his. Needless to say, the rod ends were not up to par and replacing them only delayed the inevitable. After this learning experience, the product received higher strength chrome moly rod ends and was only marketed as a "race" only item from that day forward. In an effort to fix the problem on Mitch's car and develop a product that was more streetable, I custom built poly-bushed ends for his panhard rod. Without getting too technical, the tubing used was .095" wall thickness DOM. This wall thickness is still used by some companies like Lakewood and Competition Engineering however once this product became an actual part number and produced in quantity, the tubing thickness was increased to .156" wall thickness. Fast forward two years. Mitch's custom prototype panhard rod end breaks and he starts his never ending commitment to bashing anything BMR. In his defense, I agree, I too would be upset. 3 problems with the same part is unnacceptable and for that, I am sorry. This was, however an isolated incident. If it were the norm, BMR would have long been out of business. In this instance, I made every effort initially to fix any problems he had and would have warrantied the part with the new, "production" piece (that has never failed) or provided a refund but instead of calling, he chose to start a personal crusade against BMR. What's the purpose of this story?
1 - Don't listen to what one person has to say. Instead, take advice from the community and make a decision based off 6 years of dedicated commitment and service.
2 - If you do have a problem, give us a call first. If you are still not satisfied, by all means flame away.
As stated earlier, I don't have enough time to maintain forum postings so I won't be replying to any responses to this post. If you have any questions regaurding warranty issues, please send us an email to tech-help@bmrfabrication.com or call us at 813-986-9302. You can ask for Frank or Brett.
Thanks,
Brett Rockey
www.BmrFabrication.com
#72
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
Brett, I appreciate your candor and cannot believe you recall those details from so long ago. It seems as though I tried every variation in your stable, but to no avail. And that was way before I began tracking my car.
I think you would agree, once you find something that works, you stick with it.
Good luck, Brett and thanks for your input ...
I think you would agree, once you find something that works, you stick with it.
Good luck, Brett and thanks for your input ...
#73
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Elizabeth, NJ
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UPDATE:
I just recieved the new K-member today. The design is different than that of the broken one, especially the area where the weld failed. Looks to be alot beefier all around. It won't be going on for another few weeks though. Thank god I bought that Jeep! LOL Great post Brett!!
I just recieved the new K-member today. The design is different than that of the broken one, especially the area where the weld failed. Looks to be alot beefier all around. It won't be going on for another few weeks though. Thank god I bought that Jeep! LOL Great post Brett!!
#74
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,604
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
That's good to hear.
I weighed my stock K-member today and it came in
at 53lb, plus 10 even for the cast iron mounts, for
63lb total. The BMR K-member with integral mounts
weighed 26lb. That's a hefty difference (-37lb).
I weighed my stock K-member today and it came in
at 53lb, plus 10 even for the cast iron mounts, for
63lb total. The BMR K-member with integral mounts
weighed 26lb. That's a hefty difference (-37lb).
#76
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
Like I said DAYS ago ...
Originally Posted by mitchntx
For those who are happy with your particular brand of suspension components, whatever it may be, that's great. I'm glad for you and hope you have many miles and years of uneventful service from them. All we can do is share the results from our own experiences.
#77
Broken K member more than 3
I was sent pics Of 2 K members that Broke that was to Be BMR but they broke the back A arm mount off . this can happen on daily use cars. bad roads and heavy cars don't mix to good with light weight parts . the only thing you can do is to inspect the parts every other month and report to the manufacture if you see something that is questionable .As a manufacture I would like to here updates on our parts good bad or what ever. we cant build a better part if we don't here from you the user. it is you guys who report to the manufacture that makes us better . And we can make You Better Parts in the future .I am glade to here you got your new part and it was updated and better . I just thought I would give you guys something to think about before you go and say bad things about BMR or who ever . just think about it and help us help you thanks for the space Vernon
Last edited by Vernon House; 07-14-2004 at 08:24 PM. Reason: name
#79
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vernon House
As a manufacture I would like to here updates on our parts good bad or what ever. we cant build a better part if we don't here from you the user. it is you guys who report to the manufacture that makes us better . And we can make You Better Parts in the future .
#80
Originally Posted by Fulton 1
When I was just out of college I spent a couple of years in an R&D lab doing destructive testing, some of which was third party (i.e. contracted) testing. What's neat about that was that the manufacturer actually paid to have their parts cycled, fatigue tested, load tested, etc. It wasn't the end user that had to absorb that duty and those costs...