Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

never really push my car on the street cause i have yet to hit a real road course to learn more about it. i have a scenario, long sweeping freeway turns at 100 mph with multiple bumps in the middle of the turns, like those humps that are all the way across all lanes from them kinda repairing, uneven bridge to roadway joints etc....

heres my basic question:

identical cars, lets say both 4th gens, both have bigger sway bars, same everything except shocks and springs, which car would handle the above scenario better......yes i know its broad with many factors, but in general.....

1)koni STR.Ts with say a 400 front spring and a rear 135.
2)strano afco with 600 pound front and 200 pound rear (i know the rebound adjustability plays a factor, lets just say the rebound its all the way down, maybe getting closer to what the STR.Ts can do)

does a bigger spring and more rebound start to run into "stability" problems over bumps with a solid axle car where a smaller spring and less rebound would be able to eat up more bump? are bigger springs and more rebound designed solely for 99% smooth surface? i ask because during my run in with a challenger tonight, i ran into the above scenario and didn't quite like how it felt with my afcos set at 10 out of 20 rebound clicks. i do know i could knock back the rebound, but does the bigger spring still have issues with bumps when the wheels are turned?

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

There is no good spring for doing 100 on public roads, that's just poor choices.

That being said, yes stiffer spring is will make for more "skips" while turning and going fast. The rates you posted are very specific and I'm not sure who makes those, but you can't go wrong with strano 550/150. You go higher than that you probably won't be happy on the street. I've been running that for a long time and I tried to go 650 front and I didn't like it at all, but also it was with koni's that don't really like more than 550 without revalving. The rear also has to compliment the front and the standard strano set has been proven as an all around favorite for street/autox/track.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

the 600 is a hyperco that strano has as the standard spring with his coilovers, .......strano sold me the whole setup. im goona opt for a softer spring, since i already have them anyway.....i could lower rebound and keep the spring rate but thats not goona really help ride quality in other street scenarios, since im goona need the rebound to control the fat spring

SteveC

Only if you weigh 650 lbs. (j/k)

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

You're kind of in a tough spot as far as what would be good for you. If your car primarily sees daily driving street use and ride comfort is of importance, then I would recommend the 550/160 rate combo like our SP001 springs with the Koni Str.t. If your primary focus is on handling performance and high speed stability Then our SP090 handling springs with their 725/210 rates paired with a Koni Sport Yellow would be a good combination.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I would not soften those springs in that kit... trust me on this. Try it first, before you assume something. shocks and springs work together, we need more spring rate on the coil-over than the we do on say Koni sports because of how the bumpstop and length of the shock is arranged.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

So in your scenario you are basically trying to compare Koni STR'T with what look to be Eibach Pro-kit to Strano tuned UMI/AFCO coil-overs. But you seem to indicate you think the spring is the big deal here. And while it matters, it's ignoring a lot of factors.

The closer comparison would be my springs, not, Eibach. But then you are comparing shocks that are lower end of the range to something valved to be more higher end, Koni Sport like, but with a bigger range of adjustment.

Good shocks are what make the ride not harsh, thing about how crappy a stock car with miles rides. Those are not stiff springs. Rebound is what ties the car down, you can get nuts and have it too stiff where it starts to ride back as the suspension packs down, but adjustment in the shocks means you aren't stuck there, and you can run as much or little as you want. Lesser shocks don't give the option. They will never pack down, as they lack the rebound damping to do so.

You aren't being specific when you say you didn't like how the shocks were set @ 10 of 20 clicks. Which is odd because they have more like 40 clicks. I don't know if you are talking front, or rear, or both. But I run the front shocks a lot stiffer than the rears, and typically the rears are under 10 up front soft.

mikedamageinc

iTrader: (49)

Oh my bad, I didn't understand that you already had that setup. I guess he specs the 600/200 for a reason then, you could try lighter but it will lose handling and if it compares to the 550 it shouldn't be that harsh anyway. I would just soften the front shocks one click at a time and drive a few days to see how it feels, also keep the rears close to full soft

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

glad u got in here sam.

very odd apples to orange comparison i know, but the reason why i made the comparison i did which i know are 2 totally different setups is because i wanted to compare a quality race oriented setup made for the track (strano) to a very good budget option more street oriented than track oriented, for the simple purpose of, can a good race oriented setup outperform a lesser quality street setup on the street....if that makes sense.......i have learned that the strano afco setup may not be the setup for me since i dont track the car enough, and simply put i drive it on bumpy *** roads all day, so i need to move towards a setup that is made for the street, but can survive a good track day if i ever get enough vacation at my job to go somewhere.

strano, i have the coilovers up front, and the koni sports with your springs outback.....if you remember i did that because with the bigger rear out back height adjustability wasnt needed, so i saved a few bucks by going that route. i do think im way too much rebound for street driving tho. ur right im at 20 out of 40 clicks out front, and i believe im a hair under halfway on the rears. i do need to experiment and lessen the rebound a good bit, but i did start lower and i forget why i upped them. i think i was at 3/4 turn out back and it seemed like i needed a little more back there. i did add a used pair of your hollow bars since then, so i should have adjusted a little more after that both directions to see how that helped.

but i was the one that emailed you asking about the variant 3 kit that i picked up on here. i didn't get that because i am dissatisfied with your kit, i simply just think its too much performance for my needs. also its not everyday a 2400 setup comes up lightly used on here for under 1000 so it cant hurt to try and sell if i dont like them for a small loss. from the little bit of research i could find on other platforms, the variant 3 seems to be designed around the street that is more than capable of track (feel free to correct me) and i saw they were factory shocks for the viper at some point so that tells me they have to be great on the street if the factory chose them as the shocks for their sub 6 figure car. also they seem popular in germany and lets face it, those germans know shocks. great logic......

i kinda could tell that less spring wouldn't really go over too well with your kit, thats why i asked if you could possibly source me something bigger if you and i decided the kw springs arent for me. do you think im taking a step in the right direction? i have no issue making adjustments with what i have, but think they afcos may be more track oriented than i am seeking.

side note, this video makes a lot of sense....hopefully he's mostly right cause i watched a few other of his videos on other topics and he seems to make sense. im here to learn.


random question as well, if im planning on a watts link in the future, does that change/could it change my shock choice?

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

I just realized I may have worded something incorrectly in my original post my complaint about my current setup is when I was doing that high-speed Highway turns it almost felt like I was borderline ramping off of these bumps and I was afraid that I would lose the ability to turn. so what would assist in helping that issue

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

That video is, complex. The basics are there but like a lot of things in life, it misses a lot of ancillary details.

One I caught right off was the idea that the shorter stiffer spring will at some point have the tire drop into a dip with only the force of gravity. Not true if the spring has preload on it/doesn't come loose at full droop. It also completely ignores how the dampers change things. Think about the word. Damper. They damp movement of the suspension, both in droop and compression, in roll and pitch. Again, think of how harsh a stock car is on 50k mile deCarbon's with stock springs. Pretty bad, right? In fact most folks report an improved ride with say Koni Sports and my springs. It's not softer than stock, it's better damped than stock. Firmer can ride better. Softer can be more harsh. It's about the shocks. Shocks, shocks, shocks. Said it for years, said it when I was the only one here selling good shocks for this car. It still rings true.

Now, the KW V3's. They rock, most folks don't want to pay for them, I will not in any way tell you not to run them. But stepping back. You run the shocks at 20 of 40 in front. You say it might be to much. Maybe it's too little. Have you tried softer? have you tried stiffer? how does the front work vs. the rear? 1/2 way up on the rear shock is more than I would run, by about double. 1/2 way, and 1/2 a turn are NOT THE SAME THING.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

The fronts I think I started at 10 and was like ok we need more so I stopped at 20. Same thing with rears, except I was full soft plus 3/4 of a turn. When I upped the fronts I upped the back to I think 1 and 1/2 turns from full soft. I think that's about halfway. I stopped there because I noticed a difference and prefered it over the softer settings. That's where I'm at now.....

I like how if I'm doing 90 and slam on the brakes the rear feels like it wants to stay on the ground, the shocks definitely pushing down in the back, not a ton of weight transfer forward. I do have a little bit if weight transfer to the rear when accelerating but honestly that's good in my opinion to assist a little with traction. I also like how I can go to a parking lot, get up to 30 and attempt 90 degree turn as sharp and as quickly as possible and I'm still in my seat. Do the same In my beater and I feel like I'm getting launched to the passenger side. I like how on a smooth highway if I change lanes super quick it feels planted, granted I feel the solid axle doing some weird stuff back there that's why Im goona watts link eventually, i also have a slight negative angle still on the LCAS because i was at the track and was too lazy to put them back fkat so thats not helping that On a smooth road, and even small bumps at any speed I really like how these things feel as is. Just add a medium bump or larger and that's when it feels like my tires may be almost leaving the road and my opinion changes. What do u recommend?

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

I should add the rest of my setup, long arm mounted off the trans, umi roto joints on lca and phb, everything up front is new rubber parts nothing fancy, PHB is basically perfectly level, usually run the LCAS level, lowered about 3/4" from stock ride height. Rear bump stops and strano hollows front and rear. Tires are 275 Nitto 555 set at 30 psi

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

So I turned the fronts all the way to the left until they stopped clicking, I think it's lefty loosey here, and then added 5 sp I'm 5 clicks from full soft. The rears I was at 1 turn from full soft, so I am now at a half turn from full soft. It's better from a general ride quality standpoint unless it's in my head. Sorta like there is small air bag on each corner that compresses 1/4 inch before the shocks take over if that makes sense. However, there is a slight change in body roll on quick highway lane changes and sharp turns, so obviously more. Still doesn't feel like much changed over the harsher bumps. Also the rear axle makes it feel like I'm pulling a trailer during my quick laNE changes. It settles noticeably after I straighten the car out. Don't think that can be changed by adding rebound tho.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I"m getting confused to be honest. ADDING rebound makes the end of the car you add it too react FASTER, not slower. It will ride firmer too, unless you get nuts where it might get harsh. Rebound is the extension of the shock, so more rear will tie the back down more, as it's supposed to. The shocks are not compression adjustable, so if you are softening the fronts thinking it will turn into a caddy in terms of ride, it won't, but it will get much more lazy and floppy in transition. It's a great drag setting.

1 turn of Koni's up in the back with so little front will be a mess. Not sure how you got there, the descriptions seem to be counter to others at different times. How's about you put the KW's on and see what you think there? You own them, right?

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

Now u got me confused lol. I didn't think I ever had the rears higher than the fronts. 5 clicks of rebound from full soft on the afcos in the front and 1/2 turn on the koni sports from full soft got me a little more braking nosedive and general body roll than my original 20 clicks up front and 1 turn from full soft on the koni which I didn't like. I much preferred the 20 and 1 combo.

what I did notice was a slight improvement on ride quality overy smaller bumps, but the medium and larger ones were basically the same.

what I would like to accomplish is keeping the body movement characteristics of the 20 click and 1 turn combo, but not feeling like I'm almost ramping off the big bumps at higher speeds, which was why I started the thread. That is my only complaint with the setup. Everything is is awesome, besides a little noise from the bearing upper mounts over large bumps. I lowered rebound all around that didn't really seem to help my ramping problem, just took a little bit of the stuff I liked away.

yea I have the KW, but in the middle of potentially swapping cars, that's why they are still wrapped up.

Sam, am I wrong in thinking that the strano afcos may possibly be a little too much on the road course side of things than I personally am looking for?

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

I don't want or looking for caddy feel. I just don't like feeling as if my tires are having issues staying in contact with the road over high speed bumps

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Again I would suggest you change the dampers and see. If there is no issue with the fronts, like they have gas pressure etc, then they should not be punishing at all. In fact most who have had both report that they have less impact harshness. But if something is wrong, then that would certainly change.

An easy test, put the KW's on, if you don't like those too at a reasonable shock setting then you have another data point. They run a softer spring on the front (stiffer on the rear though). But you could run my spring with the KW rear shock too.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

then the spring colors wouldn't match lol. i thought i saw in an old thread u guesstimated the kw front was 400ish and the rear 140ish......urs is 150. im not goona switch them out yet until i figure out if im getting another car or not so i may just continue to adjust what i have until i find an optimal setting to compare to optimal on the KW.

side note, did 140 miles today with it cause i drove from reading, to lancaster, to cecil, then back home to reading on the 5 click front 1/4 turn rear setup, and really got used to it and enjoyed it. plenty of bumps, most felt great and not harsh....still some personal issues with the bigger bumps, and little more body movement than i would like, may do a 10 click front.....

also dropped my 60 foot from 2.35ish to a consistent 2.05-2.15 by going full soft on the fronts (im on street tires making 460 wheel)

broad question, any idea how much rear rebound vs front i should have......like for every 7 clicks on the front do 1/4 turn in the rear or something like that to ball park me?

No Juice

iTrader: (11)

following this one.....