josh99ta

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New setup is under the car, traded my HAL/BMR setup with a friend of mine, now have Eibach Pro Kit springs, Bilstein HD shocks, upgraded to polyurethane swaybar endlinks (will these do any good?), and he pulled his front sway bar (WS6) and we just popped it on my car because it looked a little bigger than my stock Trans Am swaybar (is it?). I of course need an alignment, and I dont want a stock alignment, but I dont want an aggressive alignment like I used to have when I had LG G2s and Bilstein HDs on the car. What is a good semi-aggressive street alignment that will help the car hug the road over the stock alignment? I only drive the car about 5,000 miles a year and may go autocrossing and drag racing a few times a year, and most of the time is on the street, with some sane-spirited driving here and there. Thanks for any input.

dennis68

As much caster as you can dial in, 1.5 degres neg camber, 0-1/4" toe-out.

Cal

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I would sugest something slightly different than dennis did: As much neg camber as you can get, and take what's left in caster (the two affect each other.) Neg camber will help more than additional castor will. But you will wind up with about what he said on a lowered fbody: -1.5 to -1.8 camber. You will need to be two inches lower than stock to achieve -1.8 unless you get some adjustable UCA's or LCA's.

You can do this yourself: Basically, just loosen both lower control arm bolts and pull the arm out to the end of the slots. Then adjust the tie rods for zero toe and try that on an autoX course. If you don't think it turns in well enough, you can add some toe-out, but I would never run as much as 1/4" on anything but a dedicated race car. Even then, fbodys seem to respond better to a max of about 3/16" toe out, and more realisticaly 1/16" to 1/8" total, not per wheel. With good stiff race tires like Hoosiers, you can run zero toe and get great turn-in. In this case, the car will actually hold a turn and "groove" better with zero toe. So the optimal amount of toe is dependant on tire type and personal preference.

As for the sway bars, fbodys like big front bars, but stock or 1LE is usually enough on the rear. So if the other bar is bigger, use it. T/A's usually have a 30 mm hollow bar, and WS6's a 32 mm hollow bar, assuming neither one was ordered with the Bilstein or 1LE package. Far better would be to pick up a Stranno 35 mm hollow front bar with his 22 mm hollow rear bar, or a 21 mm solid 1LE.

josh99ta

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Thanks for the help fellas. Cal, does negative camber effect ride quality at all? Since I mostly do street driving I dont want to kill that too much, nor do I want to wear my tires out a great deal either. Lets say I go -1.5* camber, as much caster as they can dial in AFTER the camber is set, and 1/16" toe in, would that be a good alignment? Dont really have the time, energy, or tools to do it myself, plus I know a good shop that will fix me right up, so I'm just needing some specs to give them.

Doesn't caster effect stability at higher speeds? Like the more caster you have, the more stable the car will be?

dennis68

Shoot for toe-out for better turn in. Camber won't affect ride quality a noticeable amount if at all. Yes, caster does affect stability and steering return. More caster, better stability.

TTopJohn

Toe out hurts hight speed stablity too - when I had toe out (miscommunication between me, someone else, and the dude actually doing the alignment) the car was a BEAR to drive on the freeway, wanted to hunt all over the place.

My 2 cents: since he said he wants a less aggressive alignment, i'd recommend
-.7 camber, max positve caster, and 1/16th toe in.

I see the max negative camber recommendation as "aggressive" from a tire wear perspective(though this may not be an issue for you, with only 5000 miles per year), and the toe out recommendation as "aggressive" from a straight line stablity perspective.

Now, the car did turn in a lot quicker when it was toed out. If that's a priority, go for it and toe it out a bit.
But personally, I don't give a rats *** about that, I want it to track in a straight line on the highway. I can still sling it into and around whatever corner I want at just about any speed I want. Of course, the Strano 35mm front bar doesn't hurt

dennis68

John, normally I would agree but Josh said he was looking for a "semi-aggressive" street/strip alignment to go autox' ing with among other things. Not being able to align your own car for different events makes it tough to set it up to drive well while street driving to events then autox one weekend and drag racing the next, totally different set-ups required.

Autox you want max neg camber and toe-out

Drag racing you want -.50 camber (to allow for 0 during front end lift) toei in very slightly, 1/16" total and max pos caster

Street driving is a compromise of the 3.

josh99ta

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So why not strike a balance as I only hit autox and the drag strip a handful of times a year....

-1.0 camber
1/16 toe out
Max positive camber

Any problems with that setup? Just want something that will be nice on the street first and foremost, but something that is an improvement over a stock alignment to give the car a little extra in the turns, without sacraficing too much on the street or at the drag strip.

Polyurethane swaybar endlinks, worth anything or just something to add on? My swaybar endlinks were about done so instead of going stock I just got these from Thunder. Just curious if they would do anything or not. Went from stock TA bar (30mm?) and stock 112k mile endlinks to a WS6 swaybar (32mm?) and polyurethane endlinks, would that be a nice upgrade? Got the WS6 swaybar free from my buddy who pulled it because he's a drag racer, and got the endlinks for like $15. Just wondering if everything I'm feeling is because of the switch to the Pro Kit/Bilstein package or if the swaybar and endlinks are also contributing to the enhanced handling.

Cal

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That alignment will probably work for your purposes, but I would have them set the toe to zero. You aren't going to need the toe out, and it will just make your tires wear faster.

That other stuff will make some difference, but not a huge one. Tires, negative camber and Koni shocks make the most dramatic improvement in the way an fbody handles in a turn.

Cal

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Yes, but there is plenty of caster stability just with the stock amount. My car felt very stable at 161 mph with stock caster. Trust me, it's more important to get all the neg. camber you can if you want to do turns. This has zero effect on ride quality. Also realize as the car body leans in a turn, it loses neg camber. So with the stock suspension parts, it really isn't possible to have too much neg camber IMO.

TTopJohn

The toe out really what hurts high speed stability in my experience. Zero toe, or 1/16th total toe in will give you good high speed straight line stablity.

What specs did you have when you had the G2 springs and Blistien HDs on the car? You say you want it less agressive than this. I'm assuming that you had -1.5 or more camber, max + caster, zero toe (or maybe toe out), and you are looking for something less agressive than that. Hence my recommendation above.

josh99ta

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Good things to know Cal. I dont have Koni shocks as of yet, but they may be a future purchase. So for now I can do a good alignment and whatever and whatever a good tire is in the 275/40 size (suggestions for a street tire that would work well?).

As for the G2/HD setup I dont remember what the alignment was. Could have just been the springs more than anything making it less streetable. I know I had around 4* positive caster I believe, if thats possible, but they couldn't get it so they evened out both sides in the high 3.X range (3.8 I believe). 1/8" toe in. Dont remember the camber spec but want to say it was something like -1.5*.

josh99ta

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Out of curiosity, what is stock caster, camber, and toe-in?