silver30th

iTrader: (13)

okay so i really wanna lower my car, but i wont have new shocks. my question is how long can i go on just springs without having to change/upgrade the shocks?

Silver Knight

I put Eibach PRO Sportline springs on my 2000 TA and left the original shocks on for about 20,000 miles before I bought my Koni shocks. The ride was a little rougher, but as for wear, I measured the tires regularly and didn't notice any extra wear. It would be a good idea to have your car aligned right after you change the springs. That will prevent extra tire wear. FYI: I dropped the fender gap an inch and 5/8 in the rear and an inch and 3/8 in the front. I have to go at a good angle on steep drives and after I put headers on it was pretty much only flat roads. Just FYI. Good luck.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

A lot of people think stock shocks aren't even up
to the stock spring rate. But it's not like it's a big
catastrophic deal, just going to not handle as well
dynamically.

Thing is, doing the front springs is a fairly big effort
and having the shocks in hand at the time, keeps
you from repeating it shortly. The rears is driveway
and jackstands.

You should probably just sit on the springs until you
have the shocks in hand, and then do the swap work.

OneMeanZ

iTrader: (2)

It would be in your better interest to just wait until you had shocks in hand.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Can you lower a car with stock shocks? Sure. But do you want to? I wouldn't. A lot of folks do it and have no clue what is supposed to happen or what a proper damper will do for the car to compare to. Those are the people that say it's ok.

Being 100% honest, I actually feel it's dangerous. I also balled my car up when it had 100 miles on it because of the stock shocks because the car rebounded so hard it actually tossed it off-line and pointed me to the side of the tree-lined road. Bear in mind that's a BRAND NEW set of OEM shocks on a BRAND NEW car with the taller and softer stock springs. Add in springs that are stiffer by at least 25% in most cases, then take a lot of their range of travel away (and the shock needs to move to damp) and you need a much firmer shock to control the new spring.

Is is always dangerous? No, but it only takes one time and I've seen more poeple spin and otherwise loose control of their stock shocked cars @ autocrosses (because the lag in the dampers) combined with my experience to know it's never good.

I had Koni's on the car THAT NIGHT and the difference was huge in every respect. I'm sure if you ask Silver Knight what else he noticed beyond a better ride that you'd find the car is a lot more stable, goes where it's pointed better, is easier to drive.

Rebob5

iTrader: (3)

Sam, Do you feel the same way about A car that Is lowered with stock shocks that is only used a daily driver, No autocross, or drag racing.
I currently Have "take off" de carbons from slp with A Eibach pro Kit, but like I said, I never race it ( I have a DIRT Modified that I race on Dirt ovals In New York), So my firebird is just for cruzin around, LOL!!!

Thanks,
Rob

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Do you leave you suspension at home when you daily drive? Nope.
I love the distinction that folks make that "I don't race it". Fine, but I'm guessing you didn't buy an f-body because you needed basic transportation. Fact is most people have these cars because of the performance of them.

Shocks are spring dampers. The springs works all the time when you drive the car, whether it's on I-90, your street, or an autox. Those springs in turn need controlled.

Silver Knight

The difference was amazing. Your right. I wish I had done it sooner. The "cone dodgers" I bought are awesome on the street but definately not for straight drag racing. They won't allow the travel up front for absorbing the exceleration and allowing you to hook up better. For me they are great though, cause man I love hugging corners at absolutely ridiculous speeds.

silver30th

iTrader: (13)

well its not like i do auto x or anything, just street driving

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Silver Knight.. have you turned the Koni's full soft to drag race? Because they will get pretty soft and allow more wieght transfer if you want.

Silver30th... Like I mentioned before, do you leave you suspension at home when you drive on the street? No, the suspension is in play, active, effective at any time the car is in motion, and more and more critical the more quickly you drive. That doesn't just mean around corners either, the shocks damping bumps and dips in the road as well.

Again, the answer to can you use stock shocks is yes. The right question to be asking is should you use stock shocks, and the answer there is an very big NO. I can't be any more clear when I tell you that shocks are spring dampers. Stock shocks are dampers for stock springs (and poor ones at that). If you change springs and add rate, or shorten the length, or *both*, you have to have more damping control. Otherwise you are literally running around underdamped which is exactly the same as worn-out shocks. Would you put on worn out shocks knowingly? I doubt it.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I appreciate my Koni's more on the street than at the autocross events (sometimes). I drove a "stock" Camaro recently that belongs to a friend and even driving around town was "miserable" to me. My car is controlled over bumps, goes where I point it, and it's stable, really stable. If I didn't autocross, I'd very likely have my car set up just as it is anyway. It makes the car a much better street car, and it's far more fun to drive.

I damaged a shock and had to put my factory rear shocks on the car for a week or so at one point. This was with a rather stiff set of lowering springs. The ride was horrible. It was violent over bumps. My wife got in, and within 300 yards of the driveway asked "what in the world did you do to this thing?". Trust me on the shocks, they are more important than anyone gives them credit for.

And, no, your car won't blow up if you lower it on stock shocks. However, I can promise you that the results will be only "fair" at best. However, you won't know that until you upgrade shocks later (then you'll wonder why you didn't do it much sooner).

Just my thoughts.

todd4168

I agree wait till you get everything. I have an 02 ws6 with bmr springs and stock shocks and I bottom out on everything. I dont mind the hard ride but speed bumps kill me.

RaNsOm

iTrader: (2)

I drove for damn near 35,000 miles with Eibach pro-kit and stock shocks and didnt notice a damn bit of difference. Dangerous? not really

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

And what do you have now that you are comparing to?

Silver Knight

Sam Strano...Yea I loosened them up all the way, but the travel was only fair to be extremely generous. It was the street series. I actually got the set for the front for free because they sent me the wrong ones for my 98 Firebird drag car. I put them on and they didn't allow much travel so I called and they had sent the wrong part number. I had already cut the plastic caps so they sent a new pair for free!! Anyway, I put the old ones on my 2000, then bought matching ones for the rear.

Ransom....No need to be so hostile. We sharing opinions. Strano will probably forget more than you or, to be fair, I will ever know (And I have 3 ASE Certs. and stopped shy of testing for a mastermechanic). I can show you an email from GM techs discussing the hazards of lowering springs and improper shocks. It's true, but no more different then choosing to not wear a seatbelt. It's choice in the end, but the facts are still there.

skewba98z28

iTrader: (14)

I've got my car lowered on the Stock shocks. It doesnt ride that bad. I'm sure there are F-Bodys out there that ride better but hey f-bodys are not supposed to ride great. My car had around 85k on it when I installed my Eibach Pro-kit and it now has 111k on it and I haven't had any problems what's so ever. Now if I wasn't a broke college student, or if I auto X or drag raced. Sure I would replace them but for my use which is daily driving stoplight to stoplight. They've been great. I'm still running the stock panhard rod to. One thing I did do was install BMR bolt LCA bracket's cause wheelhop was horrible without them. Now I have virtually no wheel hop. Now when i get out of school next spring I will probably go ahead and drop some money on some new struts and shock. But at this point I'm satisfied

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

To each his own....

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Something is strange, because the Koni's have just as much extended travel range as the stock DeCarbon's do..... Obviously they are not drag shocks (Koni does actually have drag series shocks for the 4th gen), but high-performance street/handling shocks. However, very few run them near full soft as most find a lack of damping (just what you want at the drag strip, but nowhere else) when set down there.

kraaazymike

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree with Sam. I have the prokit on my car with stock shocks/struts as I was impatient and didnt want to wait to put them all on at the same time. There have been several times when I've almost lost control around even gradual turns at higher speeds (at least 70mph) due to not just bumps but large gradual wakes on the freeways. No bueno...

Silver Knight

Thats what i meant though may not have said. Sorry 'bout that. I have the drag series on my 98 and the street series on my 2000. BIG difference at the strip versus when i had the street series on the 98 (Koni sent me the wrong ones originally).