JEB99TA

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Sub-frames are what a lot of the most experienced guys have said on this board. When asking what causes body wrinkles from flex, most will first and foremost tell you sub-frame connectors.

Ace$nyper

iTrader: (8)

Thank you for the help.
Yes everything is stock and, it's in good health atleast

I just wondered if some of these parts will help before need to replace shocks comes up or if saving up and waiting is a wiser idea.

I think I know what i'm going to do now

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

A search will prove you wrong. If you look at some of the experienced AXer's and RRer's they know the real deal behind SFC's. Besides, where are the pics for the wrinkles? haven't seen any and would like to, plus mine is over 140K and has seen much rough driving, but still no wrinkles plus no vibrations. AFA a daily driver that's roughed up, look at the thread for a driver in Germany who has both STB's and SFC's and he'll mention that they do quasi nothing.

JEB99TA

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[QUOTE]

12-17-2005, 06:06 PM #12 davered00ss vbmenu_register("postmenu_3947361", true);
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Weld in's & SFC's should be your first mod.
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12-22-2005, 02:23 PM #50 jam01 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3970476", true);
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ive owned 10 camaros a 67,68,72,75,77,two 83"s 84 t/a, 89 convertible and my 02. i bought each of theses cars used. from my experience so far from the older models they would have benefited from having sfc's. my 02 is the only one ive put them on so far, i still own one of the 83's 84 t/a and the convertible.ive had body work done to the 83 to repair the stress cracks from twisting, and im not taking a chance with my 02. ill give you evolution on the camaro has improved from each model but facts are there just not a full frame car. even they twist, witch is why i bought the 3 point. i should have bought weld in's but my area lacks decent welders with lifts, plus the fact i like working on my own vehicles. my testing has been going on for 23 yrs plus. ive also owned other chevys too, but the last 10yrs or so have been camaros.

12-28-2005, 11:46 AM #71 GR33N GoblinM6 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3994801", true);
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i think its funny that Foxxton and his B.S. degree, doesnt think a STB is needed but the PHd's and Masters of the GM engineers put a STB on GTO's..

if you look at other auto manufacturers .. they do this also.. so im going to trust the acutal manufacturers of vehicles, people that are highly funded, years of experience, and do this on a daily basis..
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12-28-2005, 02:41 PM #72 BULLET99Z28 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3995637", true);
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Get welded in if u can. I have Boxed BMR's, and I could tell a difference as soon as I left the shop. The car planted better under power, handled better,handled larger bumps better(car stayed more rigid)I could tell the ar wasn't flexing as much. Chassis rigidity is very important so the suspension can do its job. I can feel the difference in how much tighter the car is.Also, I can put a jack just in front of the left rear tire, and the right rear will come off the ground also, the car is more rigid period, I would recoment SFC's to anyone. And Foxxton- the car only had 30k,older 1owner,mint condition, and it had new bilsteins- So even on a nice,not abused,w/ good shocks, the SFC's did make a differnce in how stiffer the car felt. One more point mr Foxxton- I raced sprint cars for 9 years, I know a little bit about how a car "feels" , I know what chassis flex feels like, and I could feel the extra rigidity in my car after SFC's
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12-28-2005, 09:05 PM #76 BJM vbmenu_register("postmenu_3997543", true);
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Let's keep our eye on the real ball. There are two camps, the "STB and SFCs are needed club" and the "STB and SFCs are useless club". Both are right for different reasons and I have not seen anyone really distinguish between the following points.

It would take a great deal of flexibility in a car for a brace to much increase a car's handling. If an autocrosser added a brace and suddenly improved their standings then that car really needed help. So I agree the "useless" club is right, from that particular pespective.

However, again, people are just not adding them for that reason. They add them to improve NVH. Just a look at the comments in the 20 or more SFC threads. people say things like, "I noticed as soon as I got the car back", or "The car feels more solid", " Most of my squeaks and rattles are gone". The situations described are just normal street driving. The added stiffness in the car's most flexible areas helps this out and its quite apparent why. So the "needed" camp is right as well. To my G-body Buick GN I added rear seat bracing, engine cross member braces, fender to rad support braces, each subtley improved the car's feel, but overall on a road race track I used to drive it on I noticed no overall performance improvement other than a more solid feel.

Can't we agree to at least disagree?
12-29-2005, 04:47 AM #79 BULLET99Z28 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3999061", true);
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I read the whoel thread, no disrespect, but I could tell that sfc's tightened the car up, it was worth my money.
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01-14-2006, 05:24 AM #101 0rion vbmenu_register("postmenu_4081113", true);
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I can't speak for anyone else but I had weld in UMI's put in and noticed a difference immediately. Much more solid. My car used to creak pulling into the driveway but stopped the same day I put the SFC's in. I highly recommend them regardless of what the experts say. Would you believe 3 people or 300?
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02-01-2006, 12:45 PM #116 Radcat vbmenu_register("postmenu_4182361", true);
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Just had some BMR weld ins put in last night. Car feels so much better. It doesn't feel like a boat when I take a corner and it feels like I have more control over bumps. The car doesn't squeak anymore either!
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I bought my BMR SFCs for like 100 bucks and welded them in myself, one of the best bang for the buck mods I ever did. Not quite sure why you are anti-SFC

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Exactly my point, those haven't road raced with a 4th gen like mitchntx, trackbird, Cal, Sam Strano, and numerous others around.

BTW, still waiting for those wrinkle pics.

Each and every one of those claims are FLAWED! Unless you can perform testing in a fourth gen extensively with the experience that I and the others above have, you'll get those results.

Ace$nyper

iTrader: (8)

I would have to agree with you there.

I group of people telling you they are better proves anything how?

Lap times trap speeds etc prove it a few people on the internet who I have no idea how much they know about cars telling me a mod is good will not sell me.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

BTW ... downloading them now ...

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Foxxton ... what major AX/RR races have you won?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Pics...let's see them.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Winning alone proves nothing. I open track and keep track of my times. Stay on task and let's see the wrinkles please.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

BTW, reread this thread from Sam Strano, one who competes in SCCA AX.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...3&page=1&pp=10

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

And from LG himself,

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ame+connectors

now you have gotten away from the whole point of SFC's not having their place on a daily driver. If you notice that I praise Ryan @ UMI for realising what SFC's are really used for, and he notices that I only advise to use them for specific purposes, and the same with Sam Strano.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Foxxton > Here's what your pro road racer buddies say about sub-frame connectors.

http://www.hansracecraft.com/testimo...arekpiecyk.htm

Marek Piecyk
2001 Mustang Cobra Coupe
2003 NASA AutoX ESP Champion

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

That's a frickin Fox body, not a 4th Gen F-body, did you read the first thread? Pics please.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

AFA an AX champ in an 4th Gen F-body, read this again since you didn't search through the earlier thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....7&postcount=41

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Foxxton, you just jump around in circles and avoid everything anyone disagrees with you on. I not following you down that road. You have a real bad habit of twisiting ones words and translating them into something they never said. Read between the lines mate.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Nossir, maybe YOU need to go back and re-read THIS.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I am not twisting words, you are refering to a Fox body mustang AX champ with a company that doesn't make the stuff for any F-body, and not a 4th Gen F-body one, you are also refering as if the intial post dealt with "racing", and you you still haven't posted pics. The post starter asked clearly for a street vehicle.

Now I have some questions for you. Do you know exactly what the appropriate vavlings are usable on a daily driver and with what spring rates? Are you familiar with what the valvings would be good for a daily driver, not a drag racing vehicle? Are you aware of what bar combinations are useful for the vehicle and will not yield snap oversteer through many corners? When you fit your parts, do you do them one at a time or all at once? Are you aware of what happens when you have too much spring rate in the rear when cornering? Do you know why it isn't a good idea to increase more than a 17" wheel diameter for the rear axle?

These are questions that deal directly with what the thread starter wants. Plain and simple. AFA the dimple pics, I would be grateful if anybody who has them will post them on a "street" vehicle with street compound tyres, because I still want to see what they really look like.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I have read all of it, and for the fact of the matter, SFC are an absolute must on an 3rd Gen F-body, most Fox bodies from 1979-2004, and none for many of the lower classes in SCCA AX.

Championship testimonies mean nothing in themselves. That one is a good one, but he's driving a Mustang, not a 4th Gen F-body. It's down to it's chassis design.

You are just looking for an argument, and not dealing with the fact that the post starter needs mods that will be useful.

JEB99TA

iTrader: (32)

Goin' to go have a life for the rest of the night. I'll pick back up on this with you tomorrow a.m.. Been nice talkin' to ya' my friend. I'll post up the pics tomorrow morning for ya' mate.

Camera flash doesn't show the true damage near as well as daylight (leaves too much room for you to once again indicate I'm a liar), so, I'll take some in daylight and show you the damage which I believe was caused by not having subframe connectors.

I just can't help but believe connecting the front and rear subframes doesn't have a positive effect on body flex on the 4th Gen F-Body... whether it's stock, RR/AX, or pure drag.