99wssixm6

iTrader: (3)

i just got back from the second stop of the powertour (gainsville) and wanted to note that gm put an ls7 into a 99 ss 6 speed and didnt install subframe connectors. I was talking to one of the performance parts guys and he said they drove the cars down from michigan to florida and are driving them every mile of the tour. That says alot, gm put the badest engine in a older model year car that has been a test car it entire life and deemed the car solid enough not to install connectors.

just a though

Andros

iTrader: (5)

GM also knows not to put in oil coolers, insufficient air to the radiator, broken water temp guages and no true duals.

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

no no, keep going

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

I would have to say yes. The bean counters got to a couple of aspects of our cars! Look how small the radiator is!
I think the Corvette C5 people got screwed on the exhaust too. The f body stock y pipe looks like a real bottle neck. Luckly, most people look to exhaust for their first mod.

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

Welllllllllllllllllllllll I would say that quite a few F-Bod owners would think that statement is untrue when they go out and look at the torque 'dimples' in their rear quarters right above the wheels - even with stock hp/tq.

I had mine fixed early by Dent Wizard - installed the SFC's - no more problem

I think GM has an entire dept. dedicated to do nothing else but figure out how they can cut corners on building cars that will yield poor results but at the same time that the customer will tolerate...

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

This is what is called "value engineering", which is taking
out all cost that most of the buying population does not
value in making their purchase decision. We are not GM's
demographic core here, we just make them look good.

Honda Hunter

iTrader: (8)

Do you have pics examples of this?

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

Sorry, no. I never took pics prior to having them fixed - and once the SFC's were installed they never came back - even at the hp/tq levels I'm currently at.

Not hard to miss though - they will look like small creases in the quarter panel (mine were about 1" long above the rear wheel opening. They will roughly be in the same place on each side of the car.

kingcuda70

iTrader: (1)

"Value" engineering cost me:

complete clutch hydraulic system w/McL master
2 10-bolts: s60
2 clutchs
2 sets front aftermarket rotors and pads
new stereo to replace monsuck system
all new poly susp bushings
3 heater cores - leaked from new

last new GM product I'll ever buy..

Viper

iTrader: (6)

Cost me:

1 motor
2 clutches and all hydraulics
1 ABS computer ( thank god under waranty, that sucker costs $800 )
New stereo to replace Monsuck

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

That's really good real world tech and data.

I'm curious, though.

The "torque dimples" I saw were directly above the rear tire. The rear suspension chassis pickup point and the SFC weld point is significantly forward of that area.

I can't visualize how body flex would/could ripple that far back?

Oh, and I got the dimples post SFC install.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

We call those "door dings"......

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Once again, where are the other places people are checking for this "torque damage?" I can name one place that practically no one has mentioned, and it would be a much more obvious place to happen, yet many refuse to mention it. Dimples? where? still looking for the ones that would result from that, but no avail. I have seen the pics with those "tiny, door ding" types, but they look just like door dings, and nothing from "torque" will cause something "very discreet" like that, especially on a body like this. They'd have to be much longer with a much broader emphasis. I have seen several F-bodies with them, and they have SFC's, and they're being used for drag racing with the "catching air" technique, and the ones I have seen got them after installing the SFC's. I would like to think that SFC's would do a lot of the things that are touted around here, but they don't, and they didn't when I had several sets installed.

AFA the inerior panel fit, some of the fit tolerances of the trailing arms and PHB, the buckets, and the gear shifter, the OE DeCarbons, the somewhat wierdo Monsoon system, I can certainly agree, and let's not forget about the sometimes wierd T-top fitting. AFA the radiator, that really depends, because I have ran my stock one on my track freak with the proper maintenance that is required with racing (not strictly using Dex-cool) and no problems (when it was around 400 rwhp), however the Dex-Cool is the one weak link that can trouble the radiators with concerns to a stock vehicle.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Wait, I know what they do......

They make a great place for me to put my jack to lift the car. I recommend the boxed designs for this (I used SLP's).

And yes, it really is where I lift my car. They work great for that.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Mine are in different places and at different angles ... the driver's side is very subtle and can only be seen in the right light - it's about 3" long. The passenger side appears 1" long from the wheel wheel edge, but a closer look will reveal that the total length of the crease is almost 6". I've had the SFC's installed but haven't gotten the creases taken out yet. We'll see if they come back after I do.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Spot on trackbird. The SLP's were the third kind I first bolted, then welded on. I think they're quite useful in that respect, and when needed for that purpose, it's not dead weight.

Chaotic Firebird

Man, even the bean counters must have been on vacation when the person that designed the opti-spark for the LT1's let that one go into production.

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

Those tiny 'door dings' are what we're talking about. It might be that they were actually a little longer than 1" - but the most noticeable area was that long - they are hard to see unless you look down the side of the car.

BTW, No way they are door dings. First off I only take my car out on nice weekends and have NEVER left it in a parking lot at any establishment. Only lots it has been in is for shows - and I'm sitting behind the car the entire time. Plus the fact that the 'dings' were up at the top of the quarter near where it breaks over - not on the side - no way a door could ever hit that area (unless it's an 18 wheeler).

Beside that fact - I was told by a GM rep at one of the local popular dealer car shows that the creases were from a combination of torque and the body twisting.

And the SFC's do make excellent jacking points!

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Anyone?

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

Only thing I can think of is if you watch how the car twists from side to side when you get on it, coupled with the fact that to some extent (even with stock tires - sticky tires would be worse) it is trying to pick up the front end (and all the weight of the engine hanging out there at the end), pivoting about the rear axle - the thinest section of the rear quarter is right above the wheel - hence that would be the first place you would expect it to buckle.

Allthough, if you imagine a large weight out at the end of a piece of sheet metal, with a pivot point near the opposite end, and you push down on the end past the pivot - you would expect the sheet metal to buckle somewhere near the pivot point - but the crease would be an 'outy' instead of an 'inny' like we are seeing on our cars?

I did notice that the crease on the DS was slightly more pronounced than the one on the PS.

I'm sure if you had the entire car modeled in 3D and did a FEA for the stress on components - you could then print out a Static Nodal Stress Plot & Static Displacement Plot with the Deformation of the different components shown in various colours.

Would be interesting to know if GM does these types of studies on the entire car...