damon_Z

Before the shock install, my 2002 Z28's suspension had the 1LE lower control arms and panhard rod. They made no difference in handling. After the shock install, the Bilstein HDs made no difference in handling. There was no night and day difference like everybody was saying. The only improvement I noticed was that going over bumps wasn't as harsh as with the old deCarbon shocks. But then again, I don't drive like a punk-*** kid on the street. I drive like a grandma.

I know what good handling is like. I've driven my Mother's 2006 C6 with the Z51 handling package for several miles and several hours. That car's handling is 100 times better than my Bilstein-equipped Z28's. And that's with me still driving like a grandma.

What's next is a non-adjustable torque arm with the torque arm relocation kit and bigger front and rear sway bars. Will those mods make my car handle like a C6 Z51? Thanks in advance for the comments.

Silver99Z28

iTrader: (1)

You are joking... right?

You didn't expect your car would handle like a C6 after just replacing the stock DeCarbons with Bilstein shocks?

Another question... If you are driving like grandma...

1.) Why would you need a car like a C6 at all?

2.) Have you ever reached the limits of your Camaros suspension?

Haven't seen a lot of grandmas driven cars, following me on twisty roads lately.

My thoughts about it:
If you really want to get near to the handling level of a C6, you need to:
- Reduce the cars weight dramatically (Remove A/C and everything else that isn't really necessary, like the heavy seats, back seats, carpet, stereo and everything else)
- Lower the cars CG and get matching shocks (Konis)
- Reduce all the flex and bind in the rear suspension (rod-end-style lca's and phb).
- Get a good combo of front and rear sway-bars
- Upgrade the braking system.
and so on...

Than you'll get an better handling but uncomfortable, noisy race-car.
But even than I'm nit sure that you will reach the handling level of a C6, because you'll still have a worse weight balance and no independant rear suspension.
But that's just my opinion.

Holger

May Spin

Hmmm.... I can promise you with no thoughts of reservation that those dampers have improved handling. HD's will slow roll rates, brake dive with improved high speed stability while improving overall ride quality. And they do control the cars weight on stock spring rates far better than the DeCarbons. And IMO a good damper is the single best improvement you could do to the suspension on a 4th Gen.

However... Let's put this into perspective. Regardless whether you choose HD's, revalves (which offer far greater control of the stock spring rates) or Koni's (ultimate flexibility) you are not, as the only imrovement going to have the ultimate grip of a C6. As Holger has said the C6 is on a far better platform to start with. Is the F-Body capable of better overall grip than a C6? Maybe... But you'll need to do all that's been mentioned with addition of dramaticaly higher spring rates and great tires with a good alignment. You'll also need a lot of seat time in a controled timed environment to make the necessary adjustments. But the car will never feel the same as your mom's car on the street.

Scott.

Marc '99T/A

iTrader: (22)

Dude, you're comparing apples to oranges. You won't be able to get an F-body to handle like a C6, espically not with just adding a set of Bilsteins.

Darksol

More than some carefully selected oem parts and the hd's are need to achieve what your looking for. Why are driving like gramdma and wanting c6 handling? Maybe a Buick or CTS is more fitting? <-----Not a insult, please don't read it as such. What do you want all out corner carving or a supple ride? You can find middle ground but it may require some compromises. But the car is using a suspension that dates back to the early 80's compared to a new chasis. That may not be realistic goal.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

If you thought you could make an out dated F-body that had its last chassis update in 93, to a C6 vette with only a shock upgrade then your saddly mistaken.

alanr

I have come to the conclusion that if we want handeling and comfort we will all ultimately buy a corvette. Having fully built my car I have come to the conclusion that I still dont have a corvette and the camaro will never be a corvette no matter how many corvette parts I put on it..............

robertbartsch

My experience is consistent with yours. The new HD Beisteins improved the ride of the car and bumps are not are harsh now. Other than that, it was a mimial difference - cornering ability (in-ability?) is about the same.

I may do LCA next and call it a day. I don't ever expect to get great handling from an 99' SS Camaro; unfortunately, it was not desinged for that.

I took a look at the GTO recently and it looked like it would handle much better than an F-body - but I have not driven one, however. The GTO is very snail-like in the looks department. Kinda reminds me of a Honda Civic but with *****.

firebird6786

do some research before you buy.

BAD99TA

definitely do a lot of research before you buy. That's the great thing about car forums, you can do research for free and then see what others have done that works. I'd say your going to need many more suspension upgrades if your trying to match the handling of a C6. Also, not trying to be an a$$hole or anything but Koni's would have been a better choice for shocks IMO if your looking for the best handling possible.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Others have touched on it, now I'm going to expand on it. First off, HD's were never the best "handling" shocks for the car. And they've relatively recently made some changes that I don't agree with, making them acutally not as good as they were. I'd have not recommended HD's if handling is what you were after in the first place. Not sure why you picked them.

Further, shocks do not effect the actually grip of the car, they deal with transient movements, responses. Grip is effected by springs, bars, tires, alignments, and so on. Now we start with shocks because the stockers are so poor that the car won't take a good set so you can take advantage of the grip you have to begin with.

Next, in case you haven't noticed an f-body and a Corvette are not the same. Not even close. Weight distributions are completely different, and the solid axle adds a ton of unsprung weight vs. the Corvette as well as makes the rear more prone to moving around when just one tire hits a bump. Can you make a Camaro handle as "well" as a Corvette? Yep, but it depends a lot on what you are trying to do, and you have to remember that work done to a Corvette should make it better too, and it starts better.

Seems to the me the folks complaining about the poor handling have just not done the things they should have, despite plenty of advice around here about how toe make the better. It's possible that those folks may never like the car. Then again, they shouldn't be complaining when they just slapped on a set of inexpensive dampers and basically called it a day. IMHO

robertbartsch

...spending a ton of cash to improve a design problem is not a good idea for everyone. When newer, I did lots of motor mods to my 99 F-body and this was fun. Now that the car is older, I am more reluctant to spend more on it to upgrade suspention parts.

For me, a better idea is to buy another car with the atttributes (handling or speed) that I desire. GM cars are not well made to start, so before more cheap GM stuff blows like window motors, mirror motors, saggy seats, and on and on and on.... goes bad, I woudl say it is better to swap rides.

HPP

Why do people restore old cars?

If you found a Hemi 'Cuda 'vert in an old barn somewhere that was beat up and a shell of it's former self, would you pass on it?

The whole point of buying a car is buying something you love. Not even 'like'. When talking about a V8 rear drive power house with virtually no practicality at all, it's clearly not about basic transportation. And with people looking down on most things American and all things GM, it's not about value either.

So all that's left is love. And if you love the car, why would you ditch it just because a window motor went bad or a few things broke?

What if everyone did that with all the really cool classics we all love? There'd be none left. And.... we also wouldn't get to witness the utter coolness of things like the Foosed 1st Gen Firebird, Eleanor, Wrecks to Riches "Super Muscle Cars", etc.

Anything that breaks can be fixed. No matter how old the car can always be returned to original condition, or fully modernized and made even better than new. And if ya love the car, it's worth it. If ya don't, why spend the money to buy one in the first place (particularly brand new)?

And, FWIW - I've had a 1970 Olds 98 Royale Convertible (with a 455), an '84 T-Top T/A, an '88 hard top GTA, a '90 Grand Prix, and a '91 Grand Prix.

The GTA had only 88,000 on it, and got wrecked before it rolled over 100K. No problems.

The Olds turned over 100K in my posession. No problems. (and it had 4 power windows and a power top too)

The '84 had about 150K on it, and I had to replace a $15 control module.

The Grand Prixs have both had over 150K on them. I had to replace the computers in both, and a brake caliper and CV joint on one, and an alternator on the other. All basic stuff that is hardly out of the ordinary.

And the only reason I've gone through so many is, I sold the 'vert, wrecked the 3rd gens, and got rear ended in the first grand prix. The second is my current daily driver to spare the 02 WS6 from that abuse.

Carlos01SS

iTrader: (4)

There are a good % of people who would agree with you

I'm not one of them. I feel that, with the modifications done to my car, other than a Vette, there is nothing out there that will compare or even come close to my car's performance.

I spent $22K for my car when I bought it, about $4K in (mostly suspension)mods, and I tell you what, find me a comparable vehicle and I'll check it out. and I BET it will not be as fast or as nimble or as quick to stop, and still get 26.5 mpg freeway miles.

robertbartsch

I was a professional transmission mechanic for a few years early in life. I owned a 70 454 Vette until a few years ago. Sold it - never looked back. I like working on cars - it is a hobby sort of - for me - now.

If you "love" any car you need professional help! I don't care how cool a car may be, however. If you are constantly fixing stuff that is poorly designed (aka - GM) it is time for a divorce.

HPP

You missed the point just for the sake of taking a cheap shot. Real nice.

So, GMs are so bad that they can't keep you interested, and you are still here why?

Fix it with quality parts and it's not a problem. The designs really aren't that bad. Re-read the post. 1984 3rd gen T-Top - well over 150,000 miles, total problems amounted to a $15 control module (before it got wrecked). That's about the worst period for American cars. The facts are that GMs are not that bad and never have been. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't really know, or has unrealistic expectations, or runs the car into the ground (more unrealistic expectations).

Doesn't matter how well made a Volvo is, it's never going to be an LS1 WS6 Trans Am. Never.

There's only one way to get that visage and stature - owning and driving one. If all the so-called "cheap parts" break and are replaced with quality ones, the problems go away.

If you buy a car for it's "quality", then you have gotten old and should move into an S70 or a Camry. It's a fools game to buy a car for value or quality. There is no enjoyment in it, and it's always a money pit - no matter how well it holds it's value or how "good" it supposedly is. (unless you're talking about Deusenbergs or something)

robertbartsch

Really?

OK but everyone should think about two things before they mod anything:

1. Is it going to be fun to tinker and will I enjoy the results of the mod?
2. Is it dumb economically - spending $3K on suspention mods for a 7 yr-old F-body is dumb to me but it may not be dumb to someone else.

Viper

iTrader: (6)

I threw economics right out the door on this car. It's a piece of history and I absolutely LOVE this car and plan on keeping it for life. It's my 5th Fbody, and I think the best one GM built yet. But opinions are like aholes, everyone has one.

damon_Z

Actually, my whole post was misleading as handling was never a top priority. I just wanted a shock that was adequate for the stock springs, but also didn't affect weight transfer too much for drag strip launches. I also didn't want to deal with any adjustable parts. I was just surprised that the night and day difference people spoke of when comparing the factory deCarbons and the Bilsteins wasn't really a night and day difference at all. I'm not too disappointed as I now have the peace of mind in knowing that the factory springs are now properly dampened and the ride quality has improved. Just curious, you said that Bilstein recently made changes to their HDs. What were these changes? Thanks in advance for the info.

Carlos01SS

iTrader: (4)

1. Nothing to tinker with, car handles outstanding.
2. Is it dumb economically...That is the question...So in your opinion it was a dumb idea, thank you for your opinion, and I'm sure others will agree with you.

Let me ask you for your opinion then Robert, what car(s) would you recommend out there that runs for about $26K that is equal to the performance that my car can offer?