Studytime

iTrader: (15)

Here are a few good reads on bumpsteer;

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread...ght=bump+steer

(the above article has a reference to "rear stability")

http://www.steeda.com/PR/Mustang/bum.../bumpsteer.htm

(good article explaining the basics of bumpsteer).

Ben T.

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

Also, let me just say that I know it NEEDS shocks. I plan to buy a set of HDs for my car, but there is a side issue going on as well. Not sure if it's tie-rod ends, ball joints, or what it is...

Ben T.

ChocoTaco369

i think it's all about weight distribution. the fact that the rear weighs half of what the front end weighs means it's very easy for the rear to slide out. it's just these cars. poor, poor weight distrubtion. a small price to pay IMO. i just slow down over bumps. it's fun getting back up to speed

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

We are dealing with a solid axle car here, that's the first thing to realize. There is a lot of unsprung weight. More if you have a 12-bolt, 315's etc. The stock shocks are HORRIBLE, and they are the biggest cause of the rear jumping around. Other things that can contribute are spring rates, springs heights, the type of bumpstop on the car, the tires (there is spring rate in the tires), LCA's, PHB's, the TA design.... see it's not simple. But shocks are always the first place you start.

The example of the car that was fine on 315 Sumitomo's and now moves around on drag radials. Tires have spring rate, and the DR's have less than the Sumi's do. But tires also don't have shocks to control that spring rate. The DR's basically are giving sidewall oscillation. Try more air on the street. Another classic case of drag racing being 180 degrees away from proper handling.

A note on the Bilstein HD's. They screwed the 4th gen rears up, and IMHO pretty badly. They upped the compression, and lowered the rebound. Basically making them more *LIKE* the DeCarbon's that completely suck. There are alternatives, but as of now (and unless/until they change back) I'm not selling *any* complete sets of the HD's as they are listed in the catalog.

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

Sam, I don't know much about shocks but in terms of comfort but if you add more compressive resistance it sounds like it would be to the detrement of ride quality.

What do you suggest for a daily driver that sees track action once every month/two? I am very concerned with ride quality, but don't really care about seeing how many Gs I can pull in a turn. I want something that'll ride smooth and not hurt me at the dragstrip.

Glad you just warned me NOT to buy Bilstein HDs. I was finally comfortable spending $350 for four shocks, but I refuse to spend more than that. Any other suggestions for a shock at this price range?

Ben T.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

It's not simple. Too much compression is bad. But then, so it too little. DeCarbon's have too much. New HD rears, have IMHO too much. But that doesn't mean you don't want any, because then you don't control the unsprung weight and the ride actually gets worse, not better.

I just can't make a suggestion to you online. I won't do it, because I can't do it right. Feel free to pick up the phone, and give me a ring. Through the course of conversation, I'll get the details I need to make you a recommendation.

HPP

Seems that many people think these cars are as bad as pickup trucks or FWD when it comes to weight distribution, and I'm not sure why.

While I have not had the luxury to pick up a set of 4 scales yet, I have seen weight distribution figured as good as 53/47. However, the much more commonly listed figure is 55/45.

At 55/45, that's only 10% difference. The 02 WS6 T/A is supposed to weight about 3500lbs. That would mean 1925lbs up front and 1575lbs in back. That's only 350lbs difference. That means the back is actually roughly 82% of the weight of the front. That's a pretty far cry from half (50%).


Also, and I can't speak from authority on this point, perhaps one of the racers will correct me, but, if the front was too heavy in relation to the rear, it would result in more understeer, rather than the rear sliding out (oversteer), because the balance of work for the tires to do would to biased and the nose would plow. Cars that are known for their crisp steering response are cars with near 50/50 distribution, or even a rear weight bias (like mid engined cars). And drifters, who are all about the back sliding out, prefer cars with 50/50 weight distribution as well.

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

Just got off the phone with Mr. Strano. Let me just say, I was VERY impressed with his salesmanship and attitude. He was helpful in teaching me the things that I *need* based on my current concerns, and that was it. I had questions about suspension components and how much they would hold me back. His expertise as a autocrosser/roadracer was invaluable to me because I don't have eight different parts on order that are all going to have a cumlative effect of zero.

Throughout the course of our conversation Sam asked if I still has the swaybar on the front of my car ( ) which I don't as a drag racer. Through his experience of using upgraded front sway bars, stock front sway bars, and a removed front sway bar he attributes most of my wandering and lack of rearend stability to not having a sway bar on the front of my car and having 107K mile stock shock absorbers. His first recommendation was to go dig up my swaybar and put it back on my car before I even ordered shocks from him, and I'm going to do this, and only remove it for track use. We had a 45 minute conversation about drag racing vs. autocrossing. vs. daily driver suspension setup and requirements.

So, as for now, I'm going to be putting my front sway bar on my car and then ordering a set of new shocks from Sam.

Thanks Sam.

Ben T.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The rear of my car weighs about 1570 pounds total. The front is just about 2000. That's all fine and dandy. But what you don't see it what amount of that weight is sprung vs. unsprung. How much does your rear axle weigh with the LSD, Posi unit, Torque arm, brakes, wheels and tires? All that weight is shown on the scales because it's all on top of the scales. But in terms of suspension movement, *HUNDREDS* of pounds of it are no contained above the springs. Look at your number again that way, and see the pick-up truck relation clearly.

HPP

Good point.

I do wonder now though, how much does the complete stock axle weigh? (the rims and tires would cancel out because they are the same all around, right? Also, am I right in thinking that front brakes would weigh more (larger rotors and calipers)? Or does the E-Brake system counter that?)

Although, most pickups also have live axles. (lol, sorry, couldn't resist )

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

I just bought a sway bar to go on the front of my car. My Z28 has never had one on it since I've owned it, but that's about to change. It's going on tomorrow, and I'm going to post how much of a difference it made. Hopefully this will keep the car more stable on the street.

Ben T.

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

Well, I have my swaybar installed along with a set of SFC. I can't believe what I was missing. There is a night and day difference with the swaybar back in place. I originally bought my car without a front swaybar so I didn't know what I was missing. Now that I've seen the light, my swaybar is staying put!

In my first attempt to see if body roll was reduced "at speed" I nearly put my car in the ditch trying to change lanes. I got zero body roll and my car darted off at what seemed like a 45* angle and was instantly in the other lane. Previously this manuever without the swaybar would have been enough to move my car over only a few feet and to cause severe body roll.

My car goes down the road with way less effort. It is no longer drifting back-and-forth between the lines. The rear also stays put and doesn't "jump sideways" when going over bumps in the road.

It's really fun having a car that actually handles now. I think I'm seeing the light and recognizing there is more in life than going fast in a straight line.

If you took your swaybar off to dragrace, put it back on!

Ben T.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Ben,

Glad I could help you with the problem. Now, if you want to make the car better (and we can), you know where to find me.

To those folks who like to spout off about how taking the front bar off is not dangerous, stupid and so on. That's your decision, but I don't want to be anywhere near you on a road, and I'd never, NEVER drive one of these without a front bar hooked up. Yeah, it's "fine" if you don't know better. Most of us do. If you must dump the bar for drag racing, just do it at the track!

Studytime

iTrader: (15)

I do know where to find you, and wanted to thank you one more time. I was one of the people who didn't know better, but now I do thanks to Sam.

Thanks man.

Ben T.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I wanted to post that I have found that I was incorrect on the Hotpart LCA's. They are using extruded 1.125" od x .220" wall 6061 material. They are also not using the cheaply/inexpensively made in China qa1 rod ends found in some kits. They are using the precision series ¾” 3 piece Teflon rod ends made by FK Bearings.

Sorry for any confusion. That's why I wanted to specify that it was the 1" tubing and the knurled tubing that I wanted you to avoid. That way you could see the specs and know which they are made of. Either way, it sounds like they are made of materials of the proper size and strength for the job.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Bringing this back up to amend my statements and to say that I finally got my hands on both of the LCA's from Hotpart and the Rod/Rod version is of very good quality and includes what look to be a very nice set of 3 piece rod ends. I can't yet say if they will prove better than the QA1's that we've been using on most of these arms, but they are definately very nice ends.

I also got a look at the poly/poly version and it uses a unique ball in the bushings to attempt to allow more rotation out of the bushing and to reduce binding. I haven't had a chance to see how it works in actual use yet, but it is a very unique design and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

VIP1

Pics of the new rod-end and new poly bushing with ball?