UnbalancedEngineerin

I'm not aware of any before/after 1/4 mile numbers for the TA. I'd be stunned if your 60' times didn't get better, but I don't have any concrete test numbers.

Jason S.

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

The UETA definitely seems to be sensitive to the car setup. If you are on stiff springs and have rod-end LCAs, you will be on familiar ground.

I believe Jim and I were both at or near stock spring rates when we installed the UETA, and we were apparently the first to try that (he mentioned having #004, and mine is #007). Both cars/arms were definitely nowhere close to properly set up when Sam drove them (a month or so apart), and that makes a HUGE difference. Any impressions drawn from that experience are totally irrelevant, except that it would be fair to say that a decoupled arm is not a simple no-brainer bolt-on - it does require some tuning.

A good analogy would be installing an aggressive cam. Until you get it tuned it's going to drive like cr*p.

I also believe that both Jim and I went to spring rates in the ballpark of what Sam is running before fully sorting out the arm with stock rate spring. So, anyone attemping to install the UETA with stock springs and LCAs is going to be plowing new ground.

Suffice to say I haven't taken my UETA off the car

Jon A

Heh, and mine is #005. There aren't a whole lot of these out there yet...not too hard to keep track of who has done what with them so far.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

I was running stock springs until a few months ago. I'm not willing to consider mine sorted until I get rod-end LCA's and revalved shocks.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

There is a bigger issue here, and that's the one that doesn't tell the world everything I've done. I have driven two cars with this part, but I've also got much experience with Herb Adams unit as well. In short, I know I'd appreciate Sam being able to tell folks what Sam's done, and not you guys who don't know every single thing I've ever done.

Suffice to say, I haven't taken my long, trans mount arm off, and the car does quite well thanks. Pick your poison, that's what I said before, and it's what I am re-iterating now. This is the internet folks. You will NEVER get all the answers you should have by online chatting. *pick up the phone and ask questions*, to whoever they may be.

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

By all means, please do provide more details about what you have and have not tested yourself, how the experiments were controlled, objective results, etc. I know you have commented in the past that too much anti-squat can cause corner-exit understeer, which is certainly a theoretical possibility, though I've found I can get on the gas sooner coming out of a turn with the UETA. Really, anything constructive you have to contribute, pro or con, would be welcome.

However, if you are expecting those of us who actually have the UETA on our cars (five in this thread by my count) to simply and cheerfully accept comments like:then you are going to remain disappointed.

In short, I know I'd appreciate Sean [et al] being able to tell folks what Sean [et al] has done, without Sam riding in yet again to dismiss it all as idiocy from incompetant yahoos. Any courtesies you may feel you are entitled to work both ways.

Now, I'm not out to sell anything. I have no financial interest in anything automotive outside of (possibly) some indirect investment through my 401K. I have absolutely no motivation for bias. I have quite openly documented my positive and negative experiences. There's no "snow job" or "rose colored glasses" at work here.

So, Sam, got anything constructive to add? How does the HA design compare to the UE design? What car did you test it on, and how was it set up? What didn't you like about it? Was there anything you did like about it? How might it have been improved?

[disclosure: this post has been heavily edited by me]

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Maybe I should get my name changed back to stang killer like on FRRAX so ill be in with the in crowd.

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

There's an "in" crowd?

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Yeah and their PHB's catch road kill

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Gee, my K-member does that (as does everything else from front to rear, based on the hair I was pulling out from under the car, before doing "roadkill" back-flips in the air behind the car).

sgarnett

iTrader: (1)

Well, my PHB has never caught any road kill, but it's only lowered slightly. I have, however, caught road kill with my the safety loop of the torque arm, which is roughly the same height as the Kmemeber. I was still finding bits of "jerky" several months later.

I heavily edited and added to post #26, because that's where the changes seemed to fit.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Just subscribing for observation, so far.

UnbalancedEngineerin

I wanted to add a few other data points as far as cars that are set up and working. One of the most important variables when working with this TA is the LCA bushing stiffness. Rod ends are ideal, but 1LE bushings can also work well. The stock "star" bushings DO NOT WORK.

Spring rates seem to be of less importance and cars from 150-600lbs rear spring rate have have been sucessfuly setup. I have not set up a car on stock spring rates. I believe the largest part of Jim's issues are the stock "star" LCA bushings.

I think we've made about 20 units to this point. I'm not certain how long production will continue.

As far as the differences between the Herb Adams unit and this one, I haven't seen a Herb Adams unit except in pics, but it appears that there is no TA safty loop to keep the TA off the ground or away from the DS, the accel beams in the Adams unit are cantileavered, and the mount points do not distribute the load as well to the chassis. They appear to be identical in theory.

Jason S.

Jon A

Yeah, just like every single non-decoupled torque arm made for these cars is "identical in theory." There are large differences in the execution of the design, however. This is why some torque arms work much better for some applications than others do, why some work well for many uses and some are just plain cheap crap--even though they're all based on the same principles. As always, the devil is in the details.

There are quite a few big differences between the VSE arm and the UE arm. Experience with one does not equal experience with the other any more than experience with "a torque arm" equals experience with every single arm made for these cars. Experience with the VSE arm will be very helpful in threads where people are asking for experience with the VSE arm. But it's about as useful to questions of the UE arm as experience with the Jegster arm is for questions about the Random Tech arm.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I'd like to note that I definitely agree with this one and possibly several of the familiar members in this thread as well, not only for this thread's issue, but for also several of the other issues when it comes to the other TA designs. A large part of the problems with the rear LCA's "overall durometer" is mostly its overall surface area within the sleeve and the mount contact area and not so much its material chemistry (which unfamiliar onlookers to this thread might assume otherwise), though in the end my personal preference is rod ends.

z_speedfreak

iTrader: (3)

alright so im doing my best to take this all in.. one question, does the PHB need to be rod ends or 1LE bushings for the UETA too?
thats what im looking for

UnbalancedEngineerin

Hey speedfreak,

The PHR should be rod ended IMO, but that won't effect the TA. Anything that stiffens the lateral response, and at the same time reduces any hint of binding can't be a bad thing

Jason S.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Absolutely any car used for any kind of handling use should have a double rod-ended PHB. Completely agree on that.

z_speedfreak

iTrader: (3)

so.. the panhard's bushing type doesnt effect anything with the TA but the position of it does? sorry, suspension physics and geometry is still pretty greek to me, but im learning and once ive got enough disposable income id love to jump into autoX

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

You can jump into autocross for the cost of entry fees. Run the car stock, or figure out where it runs with the current mods (whatever they are). You might not be in a class you can win at first, but it takes practice and experience to start winning in most cases anyway. Don't get discouraged, just show up, tell them you're new, ask for help and have fun. It's a blast and you can do it for pretty cheap.