Suspension Help!
 

My friend has an 01 SS M6 Camaro.

It is currently stock

He plans to add Hotchkis springs and Koni shocks before he does SFC's. I have told him the high-dollar shocks are a waste until he gets some SFC's to combat chassis flex which will keep those high $ shocks from truly delivering the goods. Am I wrong? Should he not worry about SFC's and get the suspension stuff? Or should he wait until he has SFC's or do SFC's at the same time because he wont see the benefit he payed for without them?

The sfc's will help some with the handling yes im sure of that but it will still be a ton better then stock. I will prob do the sfc's at the same time anyway cause I think I might go ahead and order them from a umi group purchase that is going on.

Yep, you're wrong....

3 National Championships, no SFC's. Not bad things to have, but in NO WAY necessary, and the shocks are a much bigger issue on the car than the chassis is.

What does he plan on doing with the car? I'll take a guess in that your friend just wants a good handling street car... If that's the case, then, IMHO, you are wrong. :) I just installed the Hotckis/Koni setup on my car recently and the difference was incredible. It's like a completely different car and I was amazed it could handle so well. Even if his car is a convertible, I think he should move SFC's down the list.

If your friend would like more detailed info., I would have him call Sam Strano. He'll steer him (pun intended :jest: ) in the right direction.

EDIT: Damn! Sam, you're quick!

I just happened to be here...... :)

And there other options as well. I'll tell you know that I wouldn't limit them to just those springs, or those shocks (as even among Koni's there are options), or stock bars, etc. I can't know the the details I need to to recommend anything here. Furthermore the person in question isn't even asking. ;) But as usual, and as I did with jb442, I'm happy to take some time to help answer his questions on the phone.

My point is, he wont be able to tell Koni's from Bilsteins without a more rigid chassis. NOT that the shocks wont help AT ALL, just that spending the $$ for Konis makes no sense without SFC's.

Frankly the chassis is stronger then most give it credit for.

I agree w sam, jb442, and ace$nyper. The 4th gen chassis is strong. I had SFC, and took them off. The car does not need them. Not that they are a bad thing, my way of thinking is they will keep the car nicer/strighter/tighter longer. But needed...nope.

Even on my thirdgen which is a weaker chassis I barely even could tell a difference with sfc's and they were weld ins.

Yes, he would.

Yes, it does.

I've done this as well. Welded SFCs no less. Minimal, if any, difference to the driver without 'em.

Passengers (and fellow racers) who have been in the car numerous times before can't tell any difference since they were removed.

My experience:

Had UMI, boxed 2-points-SFC's on the car (welded) no really improvement (evtl. a little bit better, not sure). Then put the Bilstein HD's with stock springs on the car (and threw away the crappy de Carbons).

Was a difference like night and day...

Go and get the best suspension combo (shocks, springs and sway-bars) by talking to someone who knows this stuff...

For me, the combination of HD's and the stock springs was a good choice...

Holger

SFC(2point) were one of the first things i bought for my car. i notice a difference :)

With SLP bolt ons, it was a night and day difference with my old car. :)

My point is you are incorrect. You guys act like this car is a wet egg-noodle. The car designed in the 1990's and designed with a convertible model in mind......

Read the posts.... You have a number of folks who installed them. The ones who saw the "huge differences" are ones that don't appear to have any kind of decent shocks on the car. The ones who have decent shocks tell you flat out there isn't much change. I won't say there's NO change. But clearly you can see the shocks are much more important because those who've changed them are the ones who are telling you from experience, (and at least 2 by my count then REMOVED the SFC's) the before and after deal. If they have removed them with Sh*t shocks, they'd be bitching more too.

Fact is simple. The chassis is NOT a weak POS, and you can make *ANY* car stronger, including tube-framed race cars because all metal flexes. The shocks from GM and cheap ones in general are terrible at damping impacts which get into the body and resonate and make the car quiver. Fix the damping, keep the impacts out and the car gets better. Or you can band-aid it first with SFC's which lessens the quivering/jello motions, but still lets the underlying cause (the harsh impacts) through.

word up!!

What is your statement based on? After all, I have 3 jackets and trophies that say SCCA National Champion on them, all 3 in cars without SFC's.

And again, you seem to miss the point that you drove other STOCK cars with them and it's a night and day difference. You ignore those cars don't have good dampers. You ignore the real-world experience of those who've posted here who've done both, and some who've even then REMOVED the SFC's with the good shock installed and can tell you the absolute difference.

No doubt a claim based on some scientific testing. :nono:

I don't think SFCs r a bad thing. But this statement is way over the top. They are 4 piece of mind and a modest strength increase. Not a night and day change or "a must".

i still maintain on a stock car they're great, they were my first mod, not because I necessarilly wanted a better handling car, but for a few reasons.

first and foremost, I want to preserve the car, I bought it low miles, and I want to treat it as such, and keep it as such ... I want it to stay tight and straight. It's my insurance, so to speak, on keeping the car nice, regardless of what the future brings.

second, I liked the thought of tying in the center better, which is why I got the UMI 3 point, it provides a better mounting area for a DS Loop or whatever as well.

third, it also re-inforces the area where the LCA's mount, which, again, something of my personal preference not anyone elses.

they actually created more rattles than I'd care for. Part of it is due to a broken windshield, part of it is due to having crappy decarbon's on the car still. the handling improved, yes, but the damping effect of the shocks seems to have increased. Fine, I don't have the money for a set of Koni's yet, and I've yet to call Sam about shocks (though I'm probably keeping my stock springs for awhile and going with the Bilstein HD's i'm fairly sure of it, and some new sway bars), but I need some other things too, like brakes, and a new windshield :(

SFC's are up to the user.
for me, they make sense.

to somebody else, they may not.

however, I drive at night quite often, and if I hit a deer, I'll take some comfort in knowing my T-Top car won't just crumple as I've seen some of them do when hitting a large object.

so, thats me :)

they're not a requirement ... they're honestly an extra 20-40 pounds of weight, and don't do a whole lot on a modded suspension...

so while I have them, I agree that not everyone needs them.

Fair enough...

But if you hit something with the nose, that's what crumples. The SFC's don't even start until behind the firewall.

Well put I like how they reinforce the lca mounting points also they do help just not a huge difference in the drive. I want some on my SS but I dont want to weld on it and im not sure about just bolting them on. I had them on my RS it was a very minimal difference but I did like the piece of mind.

why wouldnt you wanna weld them on?

I have three 4th gens, all with 100K+ miles, from various years (94,97, and 98); two with hardtops, one with T-tops, two autos, one M6 etc. One thing they have in common is none of them have SFCs, and no my interior doesn't rattle excessively, no I don't have 'dimples' in my rear quarter panels, and no none of my cars are falling apart.

Buy shocks first.

Yes he will. You're way overestimating the effect of SFC's on these cars. He'll probably have more trouble telling the difference after the SFC's are added (compared to before) than the shocks.

If you hit a deer hard enough to need SFC's to strengthen the chassis, you need to slow down in a big way..... :jest:

Drag Racing
 

I am new to Tech, but I have been drag racing for a while. I have the weld in 2point Spohn SFC,s, and I felt a difference coming out of the burnout box and at the launch. But I do only have stock WS6 shocks.

I go to the drags monthly, and I am very happy with my spohn SFCs. :drive:

:jest:

you haven't seen deer from the northwest :cry:

you haven't hit a deer at 90 before have you :jest: :jest: :jest:

it just lowers the risk of totalling the car out, the front is much easier to fix and the drivability isn't nearly as compromised when in a frontend accident with them...

just firsthand experience with a previous car of my own, thats all, so its peace of mind for me :)

SFC's :nono: you don't need those with a 4th gen F-body. Man, your thinking Fox chassis Mustangs.

These cars are pretty damn tight...save your $$$$ and drive it with a fresh set of shocks and bushings, go to the parts house and get some Moog or order from one of the sponsors.

You guys can believe what you want, but you're fooling yourself. First, I've hit deer, I live in Pennsylvania. I've actually hit a deer with 3 vehicles @ once. My truck, towing a car trailer with a car on it, and the deer got all three. It was a not tiny 6-point Buck as well. I know about hitting deer.

Fact remains, the front of the car is not in any way supported by SFC's, that's what you are missing. SFC's are for torsional rigidity and bending resistance. I've seen vehicles buckle in the middle and it takes a lot more than a deer, and when they do they are long since totalled. And, I think you're ignoring crush zones, places meant to crumple on impact to dispurse energy. Things GM put into the car and something you can't undo by parts nowhere near the location.

Nope, I was only doing 80 when I hit the last one, but it was in Maryland (heading into Morgantown, WV on I68). :drive:

Well..... *that* was interesting!

If you were serious about the help on other shock options, just call me. :)

Ahhh... I think I get it! What you're saying is... If you drive a Fox body Mustang, while eatin' KFC, you'll probably need SFC's if you plan on huntin' deer? :smokin: :jest:

:jest: Im more worried about getting my car lowered with lca's/adj phr and a TA and getting everything aligned right so the car acts and handles as best as it can then worrying sfc's right now.

Yea I was kidding with ya man. The last time I even thought about SFC was with a fox mustang. Talk about wet noodle...sheesh. I sure like specs of your springs. We can't go over my car in detail through this site. I'll call you come next week....youDEER KILLER :jest: :jest: :jest:

Side note I might weld up "certified" deer proof SFC's..for ya know one of those special nights :eek2:

Carter Hays, ref you 50 line unintelligable rant (which I will not waste the space to quote)...
Dude...are you drunk or what?
I'm just glad you were sitting at your computer and not driving.

Yep had a "few" my neighbor is shipping out to Kuwait... :( I'm sorry if I... hell I'm still drunk snd started shit. I would never drive like this. The whole deer thing made me laugh as only a drunk could. Sober it will be " why oh why" hahahah.

Still want to get the old F-body back on track. Still going to call StranoParts. (yes when sober)

PS sorry if I pissed you off brother. I'm just messing around.

Deer Killer SFC's are in the works :)

I'm not pissed, just couldn't understand much of what you typed.

Forums are about info exchange and entertainment, and it was entertaining!

Glad 2 c u man up and explain, I was a little worried you would get offended and turn it into a pissing match.

Sorry to get off topic. This has been another fun and informative thread!

This thread rocks!

I could actually tell a HUGE difference when i got BMR weld in subframe connectors put in. NO i could not feel a difference at all.......but my rear quarter panels stopped getting dimples every time i stepped on it. Most cars dont have a problem with this but my car DEFINITLY got dimples when i stepped on it. Maybe i just got a special edition with a couple hundred extra hp :D