I don't think I achieved what I was looking for so exploring options
10-08-2008, 08:16 AM
#1
I don't think I achieved what I was looking for so exploring options Had the car out yesterday with the little lady with me and noticed the "harsh" kind of jerky ride of the front. I received the rear BMR springs last week and plan on putting them in place Sunday. I owe it that to see if it corrects any of the ride before giving up or exploring options with lowering springs (shocks... mainly Konis). So I started thinking of how I could get a near stock ride but with a little rake to the front and getting rid of that 4x4 look. Hose mod on the rear seemed to give me the drop needed there. Can't tell any difference in the ride back there. For the fronts I see some people cut 1" off the front stock springs. What ride does that give in the front? That would give me the rake. Other option I have read here is a certain Koni has two perches and you can use one to lower the car in the front but don't know how much the drop is? Has to be enough to give it a rake and get rid of the 4x4 look? How would the ride be up front with those Konis and stock uncut springs?
Why doesn't anyone make a 1"-1.5" drop spindle for the front so we can run stock springs and ride, etc... is all good? My S-10 I changed the spindles in the front and got my drop with no ill effects. Like pulling teeth with this car
Why doesn't anyone make a 1"-1.5" drop spindle for the front so we can run stock springs and ride, etc... is all good? My S-10 I changed the spindles in the front and got my drop with no ill effects. Like pulling teeth with this car
10-08-2008, 08:56 AM
#2
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Did you lower the front and not do any alignment yet? Lowering the car increases toe out and negative camber, which causes the front ride to be "jerky"
The koni single adjustable shocks have the two different perch locations, but the double adjustable's don't. The lower perch is about 3/4 inches lower than stock.
What do you have right now? What have you had in the past.
The koni single adjustable shocks have the two different perch locations, but the double adjustable's don't. The lower perch is about 3/4 inches lower than stock.
What do you have right now? What have you had in the past.
10-08-2008, 09:41 AM
#3
Only 1" BMR springs in the front and hose-mod in the rear right now. Didn't want to align until I settled on the pieces I am going to stick with so no alignment yet. I am putting in the rear 1" BMR springs on Sunday and adding the isolators back in. Will drive it a little and see how it acts. If it is still jerky (bobbing, whatever) could that be just alignment? My fear is put the springs in, maybe shocks and still have a harsh ride.
I went from stock to just front springs but adding rears this weekend. Only thing I was out after was getting rid of the 4x4 look with a little rake (car looked higher in the front) with the same as stock ride.
I went from stock to just front springs but adding rears this weekend. Only thing I was out after was getting rid of the 4x4 look with a little rake (car looked higher in the front) with the same as stock ride.
10-08-2008, 10:41 AM
#4
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What kind of shocks do you have? Shocks have a huge effect on this stuff.
I don't think it will hurt to try the rears too, just to see how you like it. Swapping rear springs is 100 times easier than swapping fronts.
If you decide against the springs, don't expect any other spring type out there to suit you better. You'd need to stick to stock springs. Though if you are on garbage shocks, then THAT's the reason why your ride quality sucks. Don't let that fact mask how your springs should ride.
I don't think it will hurt to try the rears too, just to see how you like it. Swapping rear springs is 100 times easier than swapping fronts.
If you decide against the springs, don't expect any other spring type out there to suit you better. You'd need to stick to stock springs. Though if you are on garbage shocks, then THAT's the reason why your ride quality sucks. Don't let that fact mask how your springs should ride.
10-08-2008, 11:49 AM
#6
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You're harsh jerky ride is because you have a higher springrate in the front. You have no rebound control so your spring oscillates multiple times when it should only do it once. When your driving this is happening as well as the alignment probably tossing you side to side with the extra toe out and negative camber. Makes for a bad combination, you think? You need shocks.... period
I really think you should at this point rely solely on Sam Strano to fix your problem and stop asking average Joes on this message board from this point on. You seem to be going in circles wasting time and money and getting results you don't want. Sam understands suspension not just for racing but has a very good sense of how to help people figure out what they want for ride quality. And I strongly believe in relying on one or two experts for advice than 10000000 average users opinions where probably 90% don't understand how suspension works.
I really think you should at this point rely solely on Sam Strano to fix your problem and stop asking average Joes on this message board from this point on. You seem to be going in circles wasting time and money and getting results you don't want. Sam understands suspension not just for racing but has a very good sense of how to help people figure out what they want for ride quality. And I strongly believe in relying on one or two experts for advice than 10000000 average users opinions where probably 90% don't understand how suspension works.
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10-09-2008, 06:03 AM
#10
the stock shocks suck even when making a feeble attempt to control stock springs, then you go and put a 1" drop spring in there with the same shocks? of course the ride is gonna suck.
for one, the drop of 1" reduces 1" of shock travel, so the shocks have 1" less room to perform their job in, which they already handle badly. then on top of that, the new springs have a higer spring rate (i.e., they spring back into place faster after being compressed by going over a bump), which makes the shocks have even less control over them.
keep the springs you've got if you like the way they look, and just get some quality shocks that can handle both the drop and the new, higher spring rate (my personal recommendation is Koni 4/3 or 4/4 S/A shocks), and you'll be much, much happier, guaranteed. they're not cheap, but they're definitely worth every last penny you'll spend on them.
10-09-2008, 07:59 AM
#11
I knew the shocks were an issue going in. I wasn't going to take the approach some do where they throw on the springs/shocks and maybe still not like it. Then you have paid a ton of money at that point. I have read posts of people calling the ride harsh, etc... even when changing springs and doing the Konis. Damn shame nobody makes drop spindles. 1" in the front is all I was looking for to get rid of the gap.
10-09-2008, 09:35 AM
#12
this pretty much sums it up.....
the stock shocks suck even when making a feeble attempt to control stock springs, then you go and put a 1" drop spring in there with the same shocks? of course the ride is gonna suck.
for one, the drop of 1" reduces 1" of shock travel, so the shocks have 1" less room to perform their job in, which they already handle badly. then on top of that, the new springs have a higer spring rate (i.e., they spring back into place faster after being compressed by going over a bump), which makes the shocks have even less control over them.
keep the springs you've got if you like the way they look, and just get some quality shocks that can handle both the drop and the new, higher spring rate (my personal recommendation is Koni 4/3 or 4/4 S/A shocks), and you'll be much, much happier, guaranteed. they're not cheap, but they're definitely worth every last penny you'll spend on them.
the stock shocks suck even when making a feeble attempt to control stock springs, then you go and put a 1" drop spring in there with the same shocks? of course the ride is gonna suck.
for one, the drop of 1" reduces 1" of shock travel, so the shocks have 1" less room to perform their job in, which they already handle badly. then on top of that, the new springs have a higer spring rate (i.e., they spring back into place faster after being compressed by going over a bump), which makes the shocks have even less control over them.
keep the springs you've got if you like the way they look, and just get some quality shocks that can handle both the drop and the new, higher spring rate (my personal recommendation is Koni 4/3 or 4/4 S/A shocks), and you'll be much, much happier, guaranteed. they're not cheap, but they're definitely worth every last penny you'll spend on them.
10-09-2008, 10:10 AM
#13
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I knew the shocks were an issue going in. I wasn't going to take the approach some do where they throw on the springs/shocks and maybe still not like it. Then you have paid a ton of money at that point. I have read posts of people calling the ride harsh, etc... even when changing springs and doing the Konis. Damn shame nobody makes drop spindles. 1" in the front is all I was looking for to get rid of the gap.
10-09-2008, 11:11 AM
#14
I installed some Eibach pro's (lt1's) and koni's 3 weeks ago, and have decided to go back to koni's and stock springs using the hose mod and the lower perch up front. Yours, mine, and every other person on here's definition of "harsh" will be a lot different. In my case my koni/eibach setup is too harsh for me, but may be perect for you. Just some food for thought...
10-09-2008, 11:30 AM
#16
I installed some Eibach pro's (lt1's) and koni's 3 weeks ago, and have decided to go back to koni's and stock springs using the hose mod and the lower perch up front. Yours, mine, and every other person on here's definition of "harsh" will be a lot different. In my case my koni/eibach setup is too harsh for me, but may be perect for you. Just some food for thought...
10-09-2008, 12:28 PM
#17
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You also gotta take into account a lot of people who said they didn't like konis, had theirs setup wrong. Like the wrong shock settings, full soft, or full hard. Some people used the lower perch with lowering springs, which even Sam will tell you will ride like crap on his own springs on that setting.
10-09-2008, 12:53 PM
#18
I have to chuckle.... There is no shortage of folks here who have posted about how they felt their cars work with various setups. Some are vague and generic, some (mostly mine as I'm pretty detail oriented and that trickles down) are more specific.
There is no substitute for feeling what a car setup properly is like. And I won't pull any punches here, as it's not my style.... The shocks are the single most imporant part of making the cars work correctly. The bickering about springs at times is petty, and I have a lot of customers who had springs that aren't mine from before they called me. And while sometime we change when those springs are just crap, we often don't because we have way bigger fish to fry.
Here you just messed up a bit. It's not like folks didn't try and tell you lowering springs on stock shocks wasn't the right way to go. Yeah, some say "I did it and it's fine". Great. But when compared to those posts telling you not to and more specifically why--such as more impact harshness, lack of damping @ speed, etc. there is quite a big difference between "internet opinions"
There is an old saying: You can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time. It's true. This is why I'm so, so, adamant about talking to folks on the phone. E-mail, PM's, and forums just don't convey feeling, or detailed information well enough. That's what bit you. Information and knowledge of how things work is power. Reading a bunch of opinions off a forum that frankly anyone can join, for free often gets you "information" that's worth what you pay for it. It's the nature of accessability for everyone.
The devil in is in the details. And I invite folks to call my tech-line and have a converstaion with me. You can then decide what you believe and don't for yourself based on what I tell you. But if you do call it's necessary you really think about what you like and dislike about your car. Parts are to the car as a prescription is to you and an illness. The are to fix things. Don't know how you feel? It's hard for a doctor to prescribe something to cure you, and it's no different for me.
There is no substitute for feeling what a car setup properly is like. And I won't pull any punches here, as it's not my style.... The shocks are the single most imporant part of making the cars work correctly. The bickering about springs at times is petty, and I have a lot of customers who had springs that aren't mine from before they called me. And while sometime we change when those springs are just crap, we often don't because we have way bigger fish to fry.
Here you just messed up a bit. It's not like folks didn't try and tell you lowering springs on stock shocks wasn't the right way to go. Yeah, some say "I did it and it's fine". Great. But when compared to those posts telling you not to and more specifically why--such as more impact harshness, lack of damping @ speed, etc. there is quite a big difference between "internet opinions"
There is an old saying: You can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time. It's true. This is why I'm so, so, adamant about talking to folks on the phone. E-mail, PM's, and forums just don't convey feeling, or detailed information well enough. That's what bit you. Information and knowledge of how things work is power. Reading a bunch of opinions off a forum that frankly anyone can join, for free often gets you "information" that's worth what you pay for it. It's the nature of accessability for everyone.
The devil in is in the details. And I invite folks to call my tech-line and have a converstaion with me. You can then decide what you believe and don't for yourself based on what I tell you. But if you do call it's necessary you really think about what you like and dislike about your car. Parts are to the car as a prescription is to you and an illness. The are to fix things. Don't know how you feel? It's hard for a doctor to prescribe something to cure you, and it's no different for me.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!