UTzo6

Gents,

My 2012 Grand Cherokee SRT8 is currently at the jeep dealer with a rod bearing failure. I purchased the car used last year with the factory 5 yr / 100k mile powertrain warranty remaining (and an extended warranty through the ford dealer it was traded in at). The bone stock 39k mile motor was hiccuping a bit and then seized while cruising down the freeway.

They are claiming poor lubrication from improper maintenance / oil used by the previous owner as the cause. The only oil change I've had during my ownership was via the dealership 3k miles ago and they did not indicate any signs of bearing wear / metal shavings. The car ran fine during the 5k miles I've owned it up until a day before failure...

Any recommendations for attorneys who've run into similar cases would be appreciated.

Since the factory warranty claim is being denied the service guy anticipated the extended through the ford dealership would also be denied. I'm still waiting back to hear on that. I figure speaking with legal counsel wouldn't hurt.

#moparornocar

Thanks in advance

A-Dub

iTrader: (6)

Will and I were just discussing this.

The dealer has to prove neglect caused this, what are they using as their basis? I would do my best to remain calm, politely request an appt with your service advisor and the service manager. Walk in and politely ask them that question. Have they disassembled any part of the motor? Id want to see the valve cover off and the heads full of sludge or similar madness in the oil pan. If these parts are not obviously full of sludge, then get a bit more aggressive because they are bullying you. If they are full of sludge, then your burden is much more difficult.

It seems very unlikely that the previous owner of a specialty car never changed the oil. The SRT is factory fill synthetic with a very good oil that will do fine at extended change intervals. Nothings impossible here, but just incredibly unlikely.

If their logic is simply that they have no record of the P/O doing oil changes, that won't fly and its been proven legally many times. A manufacturer cannot mandate that their dealer perform oil changes in order to maintain a warranty status. If they did, they would have to provide you that service for free. They have to prove that oil changes were not done and/or that insufficient oil was used, AND that all of this lead to bearing failure vs some other mechanical factor.

Id try the visit first. Lawyers are expensive. Hit me up via PM if you need a lawyer referral.

BigSteele

iTrader: (17)

I'm not a lawyer but I would think if a vehicle is sold at a dealer with extended warranty the new owner shouldn't have the burden of documenting all previous service records. If the dealer did all the service since you have it maybe they are the negligent ones.
Are they claiming any mods? Or just improper maintenance? What was the indication of improper maintenance (sludge, low oil level, etc)?

ramairetransam

iTrader: (18)

I want to hear more about this .

UTzo6

The motor is currently pulled apart at the dealer. I get to look at it Thursday along with the region service rep.

The oil level was within spec when the motor seized. They claim there are metal shavings in the oil pan along with some discoloration. I assume the bearings show discoloration as well, but I haven't seen the motor yet.

The car drove fine since I've owned it and was smooth at rpm. The gas mileage was also very consistent.

Their claim is improper maintenance from the PO / low oil levels at some point in time caused the premature wear. Can't wait to see it on Thursday. It has been there a month already...

A-Dub

iTrader: (6)

Of course there are metal shavings, the motor seized. In this scenario, its chicken and the egg. You can't prove the shavings came first or second.

Its been a month, so Im sure you can wait a couple more days but from what you said, they have 0 basis to deny your warranty claim. You can't just assume every motor is perfect and failure of this motor was due to unproven low oil levels.

Be polite on Thursday and do what you can to move this along without a lawyer. Lawyers are expensive, but if it comes to this, I would be very confident in things ending in your favor. From what you have stated, they do not have a leg to stand on here.

BigBronco

iTrader: (2)

I am curious to see how they identified the cause as well.

Hoping they can contact the previous owner or potentially find receipts/documentation showing the oil change intervals.

codyvette

iTrader: (24)

STEALERSHIP! This is the reason I wish new cars were available at a much lower price without a warranty at all. I rarely hear of a good warranty experience with anything, even appliances. I see people buying factory hot rods and getting screwed constantly. Motors I build myself have a chance of blowing up as well but at least I don't take one in the back from shitty STEALERSHIPS.

LeadfootDuramax

iTrader: (6)

What dealer? I used to work at a Chevrolet dealer in the service department. There is a difference. Some are looking to turn stuff into customer pay work and make more $$$, some want to go to bat for their customer.

I think you are smart to be thinking of engaging an attorney. You may not need them much, but having an attorney show up once or write a letter, might push them to do the right thing.

They HAVE to be able to prove what they are claiming. Metal shavings and discoloration are a stretch to prove the exact scenario they are telling you.

A-Dub

iTrader: (6)

Did they inspect the rocker arms? Rocker failure is a relatively common occurrence on the modern hemi. While the failure does not usually take out the entire motor, it would cause the hiccup you mentioned and debris in the oil pump could have finished it off

UTzo6

It's at Helfman on Kirby.

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll bring these things up during my Thursday meeting. I've been very patient with them throughout the process even though communication on their end has been poor.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

I'd be knee deep in some *** and throw my ton of personal hands on experience in their face and have them prove to beyond a reasonable doubt that what they say is true. They simply don't want to repair the over priced dodge junk, that's all. They do not want to eat that price and are willing to screw you in the process. I've beaten modern engines left, righ, up down and sideways and never even changed the base castrol oli for 10k miles at a time with zero failure. And they want to pull that ****? No says I.

03Sssnake

iTrader: (20)

I hate Helfman with a passion, at least Helfman Ford, their almost as miserable as the Mac Haik asspickles. Good luck bud.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

Hey, they sold you the vehicle, with a warranty, it isn't your fault what the previous owner did or did not do. You're not responsible for any of that. Screw 'em.

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

The discoloration and metal shavings are from the bearing seizing up, not prior to the bearing seizing. I've seized bearings and blown up bottom ends, when you seize a bearing it gets extremely hot and discolors metal that it is touching/mounted in.

They can't say that the metal and discoloration was there before and caused this, they don't know and they damn sure can't prove it. Once a motor has excess oil clearance from bearing wear it doesn't usually last very long at all, also it will have low oil pressure causing the warning light to come on and the motor will usually knock too. I've had two motors only last a couple days of light driving before full seizure after a bearing was spun, you didn't drive around for 5k miles with trashed bearings.

DSIM

iTrader: (1)

Check your warranty fine print. When I was looking at trucks, Dodge was at the top of the list with the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. After I read the fine print, I was not very impressed... the warranty was only good for the original owner.

Mean87SS

iTrader: (21)

If the vehicle was neglected maint(need to show proof...) then the current owner is at fault.

Auto manf. also do no want to offer goodwill/assistance on second owners...

(coming from a service manager at a very busy caddy dealer...)

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

So you're saying the dealership can sell this guy a vehicle, tell him it has a warranty, then turn around and deny him a warranty claim over something that is not his fault because he doesn't have the records from the previous owner who traded it in to said dealership, and this is OK?

I think NOT!

twank06

I hope not Stewart Cadillac

08-4door

iTrader: (5)

And this is why I don't buy used cars or trucks unless,they are toys or race cars because of dealers like this and their thoughts..